[Viper2005]

Were you driving the HE6 balanced or single ended? I'm a bit curious about these cans but being a b1atch to drive has akways put me down.

it was balanced.
Both the 281 and the Rag has plenty of power drive the HE6. The Rag was on medium gain, and the 281's pregain was set to zero.

 

[Tony1110]

In the HE-6 thread, member Armaegis had a mini meet where they tried various headphones, among which the Rag and the V281.  He didn't compare them in detail, but at the price, preferred the Rag:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/493214/hifiman-he-6-planar-magnetic-headphone/15375#post_11150289

Obviously there's a hype going on with the Ragnarok, something to keep in mind.  I haven't heard either amp (have yet to hear stuff from Shiit that I'm impressed with) and each situation is different but personally, given the price of the Vio 281 can understand his position.  I'd probably go for a low power speaker amp like my F5, or for a vintage receiver that's been recapped with my harder to drive cans.  The 281 price is just too rich for me, given my sound preference and the gear I own.  But obviously, to each his own.

I would go for something more powerful than the V281 if my sole intention was to drive the HE-6. I've no doubt it can drive them, but on the basis of what I've read about that headphone's requirements, it looks to me that V281's output is adequate rather than optimal. The Master 9 and Ragnarok would probably be better headphone amps because of their power, but I'd opt for a speaker amp too.

I've messed around with a few sources and the V281 sounds different with each one. I think it's the kind of amp that lets you listen to your source. To my ears there is no obvious colouration.

 

[xaval]

 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/musings-headphone-amplifier-output-impedance

This article is superb and wasn't aware of it. A must read. Thanks!
 

I would go for something more powerful than the V281 if my sole intention was to drive the HE-6. I've no doubt it can drive them, but on the basis of what I've read about that headphone's requirements, it looks to me that V281's output is adequate rather than optimal. The Master 9 and Ragnarok would probably be better headphone amps because of their power, but I'd opt for a speaker amp too.

I've messed around with a few sources and the V281 sounds different with each one. I think it's the kind of amp that lets you listen to your source. To my ears there is no obvious colouration.

Add that to the capacity of powering virtually any headphone and that's why the amp is reference class material.

 

[Xenophon]

  This article is superb and wasn't aware of it. A must read. Thanks!
 
 

Yes, it's a challenging read, I came across it a couple of weeks ago.  But it gets some serious and afaik well motivated headwind from Benchmark and another (unnamed) poster who obviously knows his electronics too, check out page 2 of the comments.  For me what's interesting is that the original article offers a plausible explanation about mechanical damping for planars being vastly more significant than electrical damping (which explains why a high output impedance transconductance amp like the FirstWatt F1J plays so well with cans like the HE-6).  

 

[xaval]

Yes, voltage driven vs current driven amps get a nice intro on the subject also.
 
I've ordered 3 impedance adapters for my cans: 100ohm, 33ohm and 15ohm. This should be a revealing experimentation with the V220 and should be fun to redo my parametric EQing on the side with some of the expected changes. So many options to play with all of a sudden.
 
It should also be interesting to know what kind of equipment Dr. Meier is using for his measurements... but it's probably expensive and too complex to use. My ears will have to do!

 

[project86]

   
Yes that was my Ragnarok and V281 at the meet, and the Rag was the clear winner.
The Rag was more transparent, the highs were smooth, whereas the 281 had this... glare in the upper treble that really didn't agree with the HD800 treble spike (the v200 didn't have this).  The lows of the Rag were also more detailed, dug deeper and had better impact with the HE6's.

 
 
Interesting. I don't hear any glare at all on the V281 - in fact that's always been a strength on every Lake People/Violectric design I've encountered. It would certainly be odd that V200 doesn't have it but two combined V200 modules (which is essentially what V281 works out to be) somehow does have that issue. 
 
A friend recently acquired a Ragnarok so I'll try to hear it when I can. So far he thinks it sounds very similar to the Auralic Taurus mkII, slightly lagging behind the V281, and better than the Questyle CMA800.  Ideally we'll be able to directly compare all of them directly soon enough. He still maintains his Apex Peak/Volcano combo is better than every solid state amp he has tried.... which I don't necessarily agree with, but whatever.  

 

[Tony1110]

Interesting. I don't hear any glare at all on the V281 - in fact that's always been a strength on every Lake People/Violectric design I've encountered. It would certainly be odd that V200 doesn't have it but two combined V200 modules (which is essentially what V281 works out to be) somehow does have that issue. 

A friend recently acquired a Ragnarok so I'll try to hear it when I can. So far he thinks it sounds very similar to the Auralic Taurus mkII, slightly lagging behind the V281, and better than the Questyle CMA800.  Ideally we'll be able to directly compare all of them directly soon enough. He still maintains his Apex Peak/Volcano combo is better than every solid state amp he has tried.... which I don't necessarily agree with, but whatever.  

Agree. Both the V200 and V281 have been completely free of glare on all the headphones I've used them with. It's a strange complaint to make about a Vio amp.

 

[Viper2005]

Agree. Both the V200 and V281 have been completely free of glare on all the headphones I've used them with. It's a strange complaint to make about a Vio amp.

I hear it mostly with the hd800 (and also a bit when I demoed a modded HE6, I would expect an unmodded HE6 to show more of this). The v200 and to a lesser extent the Rag, both impart a 'laid back' sense to my hd800 treble, but the 281 seems to bring it up front which is somewhat annoying to my ear. Can't explain it. *shrug

 

[Revogamer]

I hear it mostly with the hd800 (and also a bit when I demoed a modded HE6, I would expect an unmodded HE6 to show more of this). The v200 and to a lesser extent the Rag, both impart a 'laid back' sense to my hd800 treble, but the 281 seems to bring it up front which is somewhat annoying to my ear. Can't explain it. *shrug

Have you tried other dacs?

I found that issue with sabre dacs and shouty high mids which made some artists sound like they were shouting at you and a bit harsher I didn't notice it until I had higher end amps to be transparent enough.

 

[Viper2005]

Have you tried other dacs?

I found that issue with sabre dacs and shouty high mids which made some artists sound like they were shouting at you and a bit harsher I didn't notice it until I had higher end amps to be transparent enough.

I did try the internal Dac (coax input) board of the V281, and the glare is a bit less evident.
But for my comparison I used the Sabre DA8 because it is the same Dac I had used previously with the v200, and is currently the Dac I use with the Ragnarok, both of which didn't show this shouty nature. I had also read that Yulongs implementation of the 9018 in the DA 8 is a bit smoother than some other implementations using the same chip.

Edit: perhaps "glare" might not be right term to describe what I'm hearing, but there is this tizzy treble in some (probably poor) recordings that grate in my ear with the HD800s, that was not evident with the V200 nor the Rag (using the same source and Dac). I may just have a liking for "smooth" treble, which the Vio's were known for. They did say they added some top end to the V281 so maybe that's what it is.

 

[project86]

I did try the internal Dac (coax input) board of the V281, and the glare is a bit less evident.
But for my comparison I used the Sabre DA8 because it is the same Dac I had used previously with the v200, and is currently the Dac I use with the Ragnarok, both of which didn't show this shouty nature. I had also read that Yulongs implementation of the 9018 in the DA 8 is a bit smoother than some other implementations using the same chip.

Edit: perhaps "glare" might not be right term to describe what I'm hearing, but there is this tizzy treble in some (probably poor) recordings that grate in my ear with the HD800s, that was not evident with the V200 nor the Rag (using the same source and Dac). I may just have a liking for "smooth" treble, which the Vio's were known for. They did say they added some top end to the V281 so maybe that's what it is.

 
 
Yep, the DA8 is on the smoother side, so I'm at a loss to explain it. Are you setting the DA8 to full scale output (by pressing the volume knob, thus deactivating the volume control)? I wonder if you tried it slightly lower volume on the Yulong, maybe it is some kind of mismatch? Dunno what else to say. Is this in SE mode as well as balanced?

 

[Megalomaniak]

I did try the internal Dac (coax input) board of the V281, and the glare is a bit less evident.
But for my comparison I used the Sabre DA8 because it is the same Dac I had used previously with the v200, and is currently the Dac I use with the Ragnarok, both of which didn't show this shouty nature. I had also read that Yulongs implementation of the 9018 in the DA 8 is a bit smoother than some other implementations using the same chip.

Edit: perhaps "glare" might not be right term to describe what I'm hearing, but there is this tizzy treble in some (probably poor) recordings that grate in my ear with the HD800s, that was not evident with the V200 nor the Rag (using the same source and Dac). I may just have a liking for "smooth" treble, which the Vio's were known for. They did say they added some top end to the V281 so maybe that's what it is.

I love smooth trebles too (my main headphone is the LCD-2, I prefer it way over the HD800) and the V281 doesnt have (in either LCD, HD800, K701 or w/e) that tizzy treble or glare. The trebble couldnt be smoother! In fact, Burson Soloist had more harsh up there with the 800's.

 

[Viper2005]

   
 
Yep, the DA8 is on the smoother side, so I'm at a loss to explain it. Are you setting the DA8 to full scale output (by pressing the volume knob, thus deactivating the volume control)? I wonder if you tried it slightly lower volume on the Yulong, maybe it is some kind of mismatch? Dunno what else to say. Is this in SE mode as well as balanced?

 
I'm using the DA8 with Amplifier on OFF mode, I really haven't done much listening on the SE jack as all my phones are balanced.
 
I was doing some searching to see if anyone else has experienced this treble 'feature' and it appears that Purrin has the same observations as me..
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/667711/new-schiit-ragnarok-and-yggdrasil/2955#post_10906742

 

[Megalomaniak]

   
I'm using the DA8 with Amplifier on OFF mode, I really haven't done much listening on the SE jack as all my phones are balanced.
 
I was doing some searching to see if anyone else has experienced this treble 'feature' and it appears that Purrin has the same observations as me..
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/667711/new-schiit-ragnarok-and-yggdrasil/2955#post_10906742

Those coments doesnt meet at all my perceptions.
 
Strident sounding? My god, you can plug your HD800s and turn all the volume way up to the sky and never get a tiny sibilande or harsh, thats so strange. In all the months ive been with my V281 never heard that "sibilance" thing, or strident thing. Even a 6000€ McIntosh amplifier I heard was way more strident/sibilant, or the Burson stuff, etc. In fact, is one thing I love about it, I listen to a lot of "not well recorded music" and I could listen at it with the 800's or LCD-2 like heaven, before the vio I couldnt with other Amps. The more volume you have, the better bass it gives and the lesser harshy treble you encounter!
 
I dont share that perceptions at all. Also V281 has some balls down there to rock the bottom of all headphones you plug. This is nonsense.
 
Also the Rag is way more expensive here in Europe, 1799€ since my V281 was 1380€, what a joke!

 

[Tony1110]

They don't meet mine either. They do not describe the V281's sound at all. There is no tizzyness whatsoever and there is nothing lacking in the bottom end.

I'm not going to buy the Ragnarok because I've bought Schiit products before on the basis of lots of hype and none of them have particularly impressed me.