[Fegefeuer]

Nomax, 
 
did you try those white mice goodies they offered? When I visited the Violectric booth with a friend we raided the whole stock. It was a glorious day. 

 

[jark]

Hi all,
 
I'm a proud and happy owner of a brand new Violectric V281. I've been enjoying it for a week now and during that time I've been reading this long but entertaining post. I have a couple of questions but first I would like to share my first impressions. (nothing new than anyone had already said really, but anyway). All my listening so far has been done with an HD800 with balanced output.
 
I pretty much agree with the comments in regards to the sound signature. It has a very pleasant smooth warm sound with the perfect amount of detail, a big enough space presentation (in particular with balanced output) and a breathtaking almost scary black background. Someone said the sound is cavernuos (don't remember exactly who did though), and if I've interpreted that correctly I tend to agree, in the sense that reveals the space in which a recording was made, specially when comes to classical music. You can feel the venue, there is an amazing three dimensionality to the sound. Is like you can hear the space in between the instruments and around them. One recording that comes to mind to explain what I'm saying is "Barber: Adagio For Strings, by Leonard Bernstein and Los Angeles Philharmonic Orchestra. DG". The combination of the HD800 and the V281 is simply magnificent.
 
Now there is a couple of things I would like to ask.
 
- First, is it me, or the V281 needs quite some time, lets say 30/45 min to perform at it best? From cold, the bass is not as detailed and controlled as when the amp has warmed up a bit. And the overall sound is Ok but not as spectacular, or is just me adapting to the sound?
 
- I've found the Balanced output is exponentially better than the single ended ones. I've tried the single ended with a LCD2 fazor and I was not as impressed. (Haven't yet with the HD800) So that brings me to ask what balanced cable would you recommend for the LCD2? I live in Australia so there's not to many options locally (and quite expensive as usual) and ordering online can even be more expensive after conversion rate and shipping cost!
 
- One thing that excited me a lot of the V281 was the fact it has both balanced and RCA inputs which means for the first time I was going to be able to listen to my Clearaudio Concept Turntable and Luxman E-200 Phonostage with Headphones (My SPL Phonitor does not have RCA inputs as you may know). But although I like what I've heard it was not as good than when going full balanced from my NAD M51 Dac. So when using the RCA inputs in the back the Headphone balanced output becomes single ended? (technically I have no idea if that makes sense...) Or is "semi balanced"?
 
- My final question is in regards of the pre-gain jumpers on the back. At the moment I've set them to the default 0.0 gain which translate when using the HD800 (fully balanced through the M51 that has a 4.75V output) to a pleasant volume between 8-9 o'clock. But every single step of the volume nob has a massive increase or decrease in volume impact; for instance going from 8:30 to 8:45 is quite a big jump and I've found difficult to achieve the right volume. That was never an issue with my Phonitor, that doesn't have a stepped nob and it seems I've got used to it. So if I set the jumpers, lets say  to -6 or -12  would that give me more "room" in between steps to get the right volume?
 
Finally, a shot of the V281 taken the spot where the Phonitor used to be...I've thought at one point to sell the Phonitor but I couldn't! I'm too attached.
it is an amazing amp, just different flavour,  so I've decided to keep it and "promoted" it to my bedroom...
 

 

[JeffMann]

I used the term "cavernous" to describe the sounstage in balanced mode. There is definitely a lot of "air" (black space) in certain recordings, which I find a very desirable feature of the V281 in balanced mode.

I agree that it is difficult to get the exact volume desired if the volume control is between 8-10 o'clock. I can only solve the problem by using the volume control of my Anedio D2 DAC to fine-tune the volume level and I always use a DAC because my system is CD-based. Setting the pre-gain to -12 may give you slightly more room (lesser volume level gradation) between click settings.

Jeff.

 

[plakat]

 
- One thing that excited me a lot of the V281 was the fact it has both balanced and RCA inputs which means for the first time I was going to be able to listen to my Clearaudio Concept Turntable and Luxman E-200 Phonostage with Headphones (My SPL Phonitor does not have RCA inputs as you may know). But although I like what I've heard it was not as good than when going full balanced from my NAD M51 Dac. So when using the RCA inputs in the back the Headphone balanced output becomes single ended? (technically I have no idea if that makes sense...) Or is "semi balanced"?
 
- My final question is in regards of the pre-gain jumpers on the back. At the moment I've set them to the default 0.0 gain which translate when using the HD800 (fully balanced through the M51 that has a 4.75V output) to a pleasant volume between 8-9 o'clock. But every single step of the volume nob has a massive increase or decrease in volume impact; for instance going from 8:30 to 8:45 is quite a big jump and I've found difficult to achieve the right volume. That was never an issue with my Phonitor, that doesn't have a stepped nob and it seems I've got used to it. So if I set the jumpers, lets say  to -6 or -12  would that give me more "room" in between steps to get the right volume?
 

 
The V281 is not balanced end to end, i.e. just use the inputs that match your setup. XLR inputs give you more flexibility with cable length, but thats about it. The balanced output always uses both amps, regardless of inputs in use.
 
What do you mean by 'stepped'? No version of the V281 uses a stepped volume control I think... Are you talking about the relais-based version? That one has really fine steps... but maybe try to shift to a different range by setting the input gain to -6 or -12dB.
 
Nice photo btw.

 

[jark]

I used the term "cavernous" to describe the sounstage in balanced mode. There is definitely a lot of "air" (black space) in certain recordings, which I find a very desirable feature of the V281 in balanced mode.
 

 
JeffMann, I totally agree with you in regards to the "air" / space that the balance mode can reveal with certain recordings, which is probably the reason why I much more prefer it to the single ended mode.
 
Quote:

I agree that it is difficult to get the exact volume desired if the volume control is between 8-10 o'clock. I can only solve the problem by using the volume control of my Anedio D2 DAC to fine-tune the volume level and I always use a DAC because my system is CD-based. Setting the pre-gain to -12 may give you slightly more room (lesser volume level gradation) between click settings.

Jeff.

The M51 also has volume control (digitally) because it can be use as a preamp as well, but wouldn't that affect the overall sound quality? For instance, when using and Astell&Kern device (any of them) as a source, don't we always have to set the volume output to "full" in order not to loose quality? 
I'll do a test and report with the -6 and -12 settings to see if there's more room in between steps.
 
 
Quote:

  
The V281 is not balanced end to end, i.e. just use the inputs that match your setup. XLR inputs give you more flexibility with cable length, but thats about it. The balanced output always uses both amps, regardless of inputs in use.
 

 
So, that means when using the RCA input I'll still notice a sound difference between the balanced and single ended headphone outputs? I thought in order to really get the balance "effect" that you have to go full balance, ie. XLR inputs - XLR headphone output.
 

 What do you mean by 'stepped'? No version of the V281 uses a stepped volume control I think... Are you talking about the relais-based version? That one has really fine steps... but maybe try to shift to a different range by setting the input gain to -6 or -12dB.
 
Nice photo btw.

 
By "steps" I mean the volume nob does not have a continues smooth movement (as in the Phonitor and other amps) but little incremental steps....for instance you can go from 8 o'clock to 8:15, 8:30, 8:45 and so on, My point is that each step has a very big impact in Volume.
 
Thanks about the photo!

 

[project86]

   
The M51 also has volume control (digitally) because it can be use as a preamp as well, but wouldn't that affect the overall sound quality? For instance, when using and Astell&Kern device (any of them) as a source, don't we always have to set the volume output to "full" in order not to loose quality? 
I'll do a test and report with the -6 and -12 settings to see if there's more room in between steps.
 
 
 
So, that means when using the RCA input I'll still notice a sound difference between the balanced and single ended headphone outputs? I thought in order to really get the balance "effect" that you have to go full balance, ie. XLR inputs - XLR headphone output.

 
By "steps" I mean the volume nob does not have a continues smooth movement (as in the Phonitor and other amps) but little incremental steps....for instance you can go from 8 o'clock to 8:15, 8:30, 8:45 and so on, My point is that each step has a very big impact in Volume.
 
Thanks about the photo!

 
Your M51 (and many other high quality DACs) can do at least a small or medium amount of attenuation without losing any fidelity. The lower you drop that volume, the more likely it is to have sonic consequences, but 10dB or even 20dB is usually fine. That's not always the case with all DACs and once you hear it you can't "un-hear" it if you know what I mean.
 
For the AK devices, they are concerned with giving a full scale output so your external amp gets the higher voltage signal it expects. That maximizes signal to noise ratio among other things. It's an analog output so it's not really the same as discussing digital attenuation.
 
I always recommend playing with RCA and XLR to see if your device changes. I don't hear a difference on the V281 but that assumes a source feeding it which is also identical on RCA and XLR. Not sure about your M51 but it very well could have differences, so it's worth playing with. The V281 will convert your signals back and forth with minimal or zero loss so it's fine if you go XLR in and 1/4" out or RCA in and XLR out. But XLR in and XLR out may end up sounding the best to your ears - which are the only ones that matter in this case.

 

[project86]

Also, don't be afraid to drop to -12dB pregain (the lowest setting). That's where I keep mine most of the time. I find that even with my HE-6, I still have plenty of volume most of the time. Using RCA inputs will allow you to crank the volume higher, with most DACs anyway. Not sure what the RCA output voltage is on your M51. But like I said, go -12dB and knock down a bit of volume on the NAD, you'll find a lot mroe usable volume range. 

 

[jark]

Thanks project86 for your comments and recommendations!, I'll give it go and report back

 

[plakat]

  By "steps" I mean the volume nob does not have a continues smooth movement (as in the Phonitor and other amps) but little incremental steps....for instance you can go from 8 o'clock to 8:15, 8:30, 8:45 and so on, My point is that each step has a very big impact in Volume.
 
Thanks about the photo!

 
Still don't get quite it... the V281 uses an analog volume pot without mechanical steps and only the relay-based volume option converts the analog pots value to a control signal to that relay network. Still you won't feel any steps in the movement on the pot (though the relay switching may give that impression). The steps used in that variant are only 0,75dB, so it should still sound quite smooth (except for some intermittent distortion while moving the pot due to the switching relays).
 
But be that as it may, I think lowering the input sensitivity might help as you move to another part of the volume pot for your desired level.
 
Enjoy your new amp -- I think its one of the finest one can buy these days.

 

[jark]

Still don't get quite it... the V281 uses an analog volume pot without mechanical steps and only the relay-based volume option converts the analog pots value to a control signal to that relay network. Still you won't feel any steps in the movement on the pot (though the relay switching may give that impression). The steps used in that variant are only 0,75dB, so it should still sound quite smooth (except for some intermittent distortion while moving the pot due to the switching relays).

But be that as it may, I think lowering the input sensitivity might help as you move to another part of the volume pot for your desired level.

Enjoy your new amp -- I think its one of the finest one can buy these days.

Interesting, maybe your version is different to mine? I have the basic option, with no remote control ( I like to get up from my seat and turn the volume nob manually...ha) and you can clearly feel the steps when turning the nob, exactly 3 "small stops" in between full hours, ie. From 8 to 9 o'clock you get 8:15, 8:30 and 8:45. It's subtle but definitely there, in fact you know you are at 9 or 10 or any o'clock because there's a clear bigger stop not like the phonitor nob or my preamp nob which has a continuos smooth movement with no stops at all...

And yes I'm certainly enjoining this amp, the more I listen the more I like it! It's brilliant!

 

[rx79ez08]

The vc and non vc version (normal version) use different volume control. The normal version use a 24 or 28 steps pot I think.

 

[jark]

The vc and non vc version (normal version) use different volume control. The normal version use a 24 or 28 steps pot I think.

I've counted exactly 40 steps in my basic - no remote - version simply by turning the volume nob.

 

[project86]

I'm fairly sure it is the Alps RK27 with the 41 detent option, which is one of several variations they offer. The level 1 volume upgrade gets you the volume controlled RK27 - I had it on the review loaner and it is smooth, no detents/steps.

 

[Tobes]

I've counted exactly 40 steps in my basic - no remote - version simply by turning the volume nob.

I could be incorrect here....but wasn't there a previous posting where the manufacturer stated that positions between the detents can be selected to give finer volume graduations and this won't effect sound quality - ie it's a continuous wiper pot with detent positions not a fixed resistor attenuator.
The v281 version I owned had the motor controlled Alps pot with smooth continuous operation (no detents).
 
EDIT - from the manual:
  "the standard manual control incorporates the above mentioned Alps
RK 27 potentiometer with a 41-detent to ease the repositioning to a
specific value / angle. Please note that these detents have nothing to do
with a stepped attenuator !!!"
 
As mentioned above, I can't understand why you don't use the lower pre-gain settings to give more adjustment range on the volume control - that's one of the features of this amp.

 

 

[jark]

As mentioned above, I can't understand why you don't use the lower pre-gain settings to give more adjustment range on the volume control - that's one of the features of this amp.  

I've followed the recommendations and honestly there's not much off a difference, at least with the HD800. Instead of setting the volume at comfortable levels between 8 to 9:30, now I'm setting it between 9 to 10:30 with pretty much the same boost in between steps...I guess it doesn't really matter and I'll adjust volume more precisely with my M51...

In another matter I've gave a second chance to the LCD2 in single ended mode ( unfortunately I don't have a 4 pin XLR cable and I can't wait to get one!) and is a bit of a disappointment. I don't know if is it because I'm so used to the HD800 sound or what, but in comparison the LCD2 with the V281 is like listening inside a 1x1 meter box. It is very dark, lacks dynamics, excitement, air....to me is almost like claustrophobic and I really hope will improve when balanced!... The thing is I absolutely love the LCD2 paired with my portable ALO "the international" in balanced mode ( small balanced connectors) with my AK120II as a source, so I resist to think will not work with the V281.

Do you guys prefer the LCD2 balanced with the V281?.... What gain do you set in the back?

Cheers