[safulop]

  Not really sure I can see that in the graphs (or hear it), I'll have to check carefully. Another interesting possibility is that the original recording engineers or contemporary vinyl mastering engineers have done some manual gain riding (not sure about the correct word, either).

The waveforms plot the raw voltage excursion that is the measure of the sound vibration in the recording, after conversion to an electrical signal.  The voltage is then plotted on a "normalized" scale where the maximum allowed peak excursions are from -1 to 1 volt.  This will be the clipping point.
You can observe that in my vinyl recording on CD, I set the level nicely so it doesn't clip, and then the maximum excursion of the positive voltage winds up at 0.8699 according to the axis label.  That's from the loud passages near the end.
 
Now, the CD version has been "level-matched" to the vinyl using software that equalized their *average* intensity.  But in so doing, the maximum voltage excursion on the CD version is now only 0.6904.  Why would a level-matched file be so much quieter than the vinyl?  Because for the part of the music leading up to 280 s, it is actually louder, and then after 280 s it is quieter.  So the average turns out equivalent.  This is why I said initially that I had problems trying to post suitably level-matched files, because the musical dynamics is different in the two masters.
 
Now, the CD is labeled "ADD," which in the old days was supposed to mean it had been seriously messed with, possibly including digital remixing from the multitrack masters.  The LP, on the other hand, is a recent "direct metal master" reissue that likely used the original two-track mixdown from 1962.  But I'm just guessing, because it doesn't say anything about "remastering" the recording other than what is necessary to cut the record.

 

[judgmentday]

This is the LP version wich has more info beyond 20kHz not like the CD version below that has been cut up to 20khz
 


This is the CD version which has no info beyond 20kHz.
The LP can do over 50kHz or infinite resolution because is analog.
LP is the only analog recording close to the original.  No DAC can reproduce analog without lying to ours ears. A DAC only gives representations of what it may have been in reality.  Don't be fooled by digital! The moon is not made of honey!

 

[cjl]

Originally Posted by judgmentday /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
 
The LP can do over 50kHz or infinite because is analog.
 

Just because something is analog doesn't mean it has infinite bandwidth. Analog has bandwidth limitations too.

 

[sonitus mirus]

  Just because something is analog doesn't mean it has infinite bandwidth. Analog has bandwidth limitations too.

 
High frequencies create a lot of distortion on vinyl, so they have to be quieted, which makes them more susceptible to being masked. 

 

[Leporello]

  The LP can do over 50kHz or infinite because is analog.
LP is the only analog recording close to the original.  No DAC can reproduce analog without lying to ours ears. A DAC only gives representations of what it may have been in reality.  Don't be fooled by digital! The moon is not made of honey!

Both digital and analog are actually representations of reality (as is every part - digital or analog - of sound recording/reproduction chain). The Tiefenbrun test I described previously, nicely demonstrates the fact that thirty years old digital system is completetely transparent. Had the dac lied to Tiefenbrun's ears, he would have noticed. He could not. And neither could you, judgmentday. You actually thought vinyl was cd in a trivially easy comparison.

 

[judgmentday]

  Just because something is analog doesn't mean it has infinite bandwidth. Analog has bandwidth limitations too.

The LP has infinite resolution.  Therefore is not HD audio, 24bit/96kHz, DSD or any process that digititis creates.  Analog is the closest thing to the music period.
Vinyl has infinite resolution compared to CDs. Today's vinyl LPs are often well-pressed from good virgin vinyl, a quality level that did not exist in the greedy music biz 1980's. Man, I had some terrible pressings! Today is a very good time to own a turntable. I would say get a decent one and, also very important, invest in a quality elliptical diamond-stylus cartridge.
Forget about digital!  They, the CD, SACD, DVD-Audio, Blu-ray, MP3, and all digital manufacturers have lied to us for more than 30 years!

 

[cjl]

 
The LP has infinite resolution. 

The LP has limited resolution. Infinite resolution is not physically possible in any playback system, whether digital or analog.

 

[judgmentday]

Even Steve Jobs, the one who marketed the iTunes preferred quietly vinyl over any digital crap.  Guess why?  He could afford a killer TT or at very least he could listen to the one that one of his rich friends had.  But I guess if one asked him, he would say that his iTunes sound better so the stupid people would buy his crap.

 

[Leporello]

 
The LP has infinite resolution.  Therefore is not HD audio, 24bit/96kHz, DSD or any process that digititis creates.  Analog is the closest thing to the music period.
Vinyl has infinite resolution compared to CDs. Today's vinyl LPs are often well-pressed from good virgin vinyl, a quality level that did not exist in the greedy music biz 1980's. Man, I had some terrible pressings! Today is a very good time to own a turntable. I would say get a decent one and, also very important, invest in a quality elliptical diamond-stylus cartridge.
Forget about digital!  They, the CD, SACD, DVD-Audio, Blu-ray, MP3, and all digital manufacturers have lied to us for more than 30 years!

Nothing has infinite resolution, not analog, not digital. 'Infinite resolution' is just a silly claim often made by vinyl enthusiasts who do not even know what resolution means. In faith based audio it may be ok, in real world it is not.
 
 A system with infinite resolution would be able to reproduce infinitely high sounds, infinitely low sounds, infinitely soft and infinitely loud sounds. Now, the resolution of vinyl cannot be calculated in the same way as with digital. But from this it does not follow that its is suddenly infinite.
 
Judgmentday, when are you going to tell us about the stairsteps that digital sound consists of? We are waiting eagerly...

 

[safulop]

 
The LP has infinite resolution.  Therefore is not HD audio, 24bit/96kHz, DSD or any process that digititis creates.  Analog is the closest thing to the music period.
Vinyl has infinite resolution compared to CDs. Today's vinyl LPs are often well-pressed from good virgin vinyl, a quality level that did not exist in the greedy music biz 1980's. Man, I had some terrible pressings! Today is a very good time to own a turntable. I would say get a decent one and, also very important, invest in a quality elliptical diamond-stylus cartridge.
Forget about digital!  They, the CD, SACD, DVD-Audio, Blu-ray, MP3, and all digital manufacturers have lied to us for more than 30 years!

Funny how in the turntable forum at AudioKarma, the consensus opinion is that today's vinyl is mostly crap pressings on 40-year old record presses that are barely working.  Ordinary workaday pressings from the local record stores in the 1980s constitute a large part of my collection, and most of them are awesome and still quiet after all these years with no serious effort to clean them.
 
I'm beginning to wonder if you even own a turntable.

 

[nick_charles]

   
The LP can do over 50kHz or infinite resolution because is analog.
 

 
 
LP does not have infinite resolution, this is verifiable as if LP had infinite resolution it would have an infinitely high SNR, infinite dynamic range, infinite FR and infinitely low distortion , none of which it has, continuous is not the same as infinite -
 
see ...............What Vinyl actually is by someone who knows  what they are talking about
 
here is an extract, but please read the whole paper !!
 

No matter how well they have been made, every cartridge will ‘mistrack’ groove modulations above a given magnitude. This is usually because the accelerations and displacements become too large and the stylus either loses contact with the groove walls or gouges into them, damaging the record! In other cases the stylus may remain in contact, but the cartridge's electrical output saturates. Whatever the exact cause, above a given level the cartridge (sensor) output ceases to be a faithful representation of the groove modulation. These electro-mechanical problems will limit both the maximum signal level and the maximum rate of change of the signal level we can obtain using a given cartridge. 

The smallest signal levels we can sense using the cartridge will be partly set by electronic noise produced in its generator resistance and in the amplifier used to boost its output. There is also a mechanical limit on the smallest signal level which will be clearly measurable. 

 
ipso facto vinyl does not have infinite resolution

 

[RRod]

On the topic of the music, here is a graph of 1s RMS, peak, and crest factor, by channel, for each of the samples. I trimmed off some of the end crufty stuff from the vinyl rip and volume matched to mono-ized RMS, which ends up being within 0.1 loudness units as well. Take from it what you will.

 

[judgmentday]

  Funny how in the turntable forum at AudioKarma, the consensus opinion is that today's vinyl is mostly crap pressings on 40-year old record presses that are barely working.  Ordinary workaday pressings from the local record stores in the 1980s constitute a large part of my collection, and most of them are awesome and still quiet after all these years with no serious effort to clean them.
 
I'm beginning to wonder if you even own a turntable.

I agree with the TT forum at AudioKarma. I'm not saying that all LPs made today are the same quality as of the ones from 40 years ago.  There are lots of them that are bad pressings, but there some made of virgin vinyl that are great pressings.
 
Do you really know what a TT is? In case you do know, here is one:


And this one:
 

 

[castleofargh]

 

  Just because something is analog doesn't mean it has infinite bandwidth. Analog has bandwidth limitations too.

The LP has infinite resolution.  Therefore is not HD audio, 24bit/96kHz, DSD or any process that digititis creates.  Analog is the closest thing to the music period.
Vinyl has infinite resolution compared to CDs. Today's vinyl LPs are often well-pressed from good virgin vinyl, a quality level that did not exist in the greedy music biz 1980's. Man, I had some terrible pressings! Today is a very good time to own a turntable. I would say get a decent one and, also very important, invest in a quality elliptical diamond-stylus cartridge.
Forget about digital!  They, the CD, SACD, DVD-Audio, Blu-ray, MP3, and all digital manufacturers have lied to us for more than 30 years!

you don't make something become true just by repeating it.
 everything has limits, if you draw shapes in the sand, when you reach shapes the size of the sand itself, you reach a limit, and calling the drawing analog all we want doesn't change that limit. it's the same with any material or way of measuring something(which is what music recording is). what decides upon resolution is how you can record and replay with a given fidelity.
thinking that rubbing a stick onto a surface is actually superior to what digital can do is totally delusional. noises from friction, speed errors, tracking errors, those are a few of the noises and distortions a digital recording doesn't have to deal with.
 
you know how you still like some food even when it's full of saturated fat, sugar, salt and whatever chemical that will kill us all soon enough? vinyl is just like that. it's still pleasing, and many people will still have some. but that doesn't make vinyl right. it just makes it yummy.
vinyl is the bad stuff that we enjoy, and people are free to enjoy whatever they enjoy. I certainly wouldn't give a lesson on what is right with my box of Pringles next to my laptop^_^. but trying to pass vinyl as a higher fidelity medium is a lie. and it's been proved soooooo many times for noise, distortions, amplitudes limits, and crosstalk, that pushing the ultrasonic agenda seems a little misguided.
 
 
this topic can be interesting though, as to find out if people tend to prefer the sound of the vinyl. so as a taste issue.  but the "who's the highest fidelity medium?" question has been answered years ago and really isn't up for debate.

 

[XenHeadFi]

  On the topic of the music, here is a graph of 1s RMS, peak, and crest factor, by channel, for each of the samples. I trimmed off some of the end crufty stuff from the vinyl rip and volume matched to mono-ized RMS, which ends up being within 0.1 loudness units as well. Take from it what you will.

Can you give some more information on how to read the graph, like which line is for which measurement? I am unfamiliar with this kind of graph.
 
EDIT: Also @nick_charles that site is pretty interesting. Thanks for the link.