[chadbang]

I'm making my second foray back into vinyl and I still have my doubts about vinyl
superiority. To me the truth remains: it's all in the mastering. Albums well-recorded sound fantastic on either medium. But there a just as many clunkers on vinyl as on cd. Many of my albums are bested by better digital remasters on cd.

 

[Redo]

It's all preference. Honestly, you can go on about mp3 vs CD quality, but Vinyl is a completely different beast. I subscribe to the vinyl sound, but I don't yet have my own LP setup. Also, the albums I have access too, aren't in the best condition. But you know what, albums that crackle like fire from the scratches, they are the best sounding albums!!!


CD's are superior, but they lack any sort of character. The mastering studios don't reproduce the warmth that Vinyls naturally induce, and it's a shame

 

[Garbz]

It is all preference. Different mastering methods are applied to each format. I like my genesis on vinyl rather then the remastered CDs, same goes for a LOT of my other older music, and even some modern pieces.

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssportclay A well mastered CD or SACD can sound excellent on a good machine but none of them can match the sound of a 12 inch single or EP spinning at 45 RPMs on a good turntable. Fast plastic is the best source there is this side of the original master tape.

I'm tellin' ya... you ain't heard nothin' until you've heard my pristine RCA Victrola spinin' some of my classic 78 rpm celuloid discs, or my vintage cylinder player! Vinyl, CD's, MP3's... nothin' can compare - depth, width, thickness, tone, and the "texture"... I'm tellin' ya the "texture" is simply incomparable.

Better get on eBay, or check out some vintage auctions, and get yourself one of these players and a few discs, or cylinders and see for yourself! Absolutely... nothin' compares!!!

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 I'm tellin' ya... you ain't heard nothin' until you've heard my pristine RCA Victrola spinin' some of my classic 16 rpm celuloid discs, or my vintage cylinder player! Vinyl, CD's, MP3's... nothin' can compare - depth, width, thickness, tone, and the "texture"... I'm tellin' ya the "texture" is simply incomparable. Better get on eBay, or check out some vintage auctions, and get yourself one of these players and a few discs, or cylinders and see for yourself! Absolutely... nothin' compares!!!

Seriously though a good 78 played on a large horn acoustic gramophone is something worth hearing. It's severely band limited by todays standards but there is something uncanny about hearing Caruso sound like he is singing in the next room, albeit through a cardboard tube. It's the closest experience to time travel you are ever likely to have.

 

[bigshot]

What is a "16 rpm celluloid disk"?

See ya
Steve

 

[chadbang]

Well, I've tweaked, guaged, balanced, dampened, amped, cartridged and turntabled. I'm ready to throw my td-125 out the window. I've yet to hear this elusive rich warmth that people seem to automatically subscribe to vinyl. I grew up with vinyl and I didn't particually have any memories of it sounding so much better than cd. I still say its easier to get a more consistent sound, bass and warmth out of my cds. After hurting my ears with headphones my ears "burn" whenever there is distortion, even if it's almost inaudible. My ears burn almost all the time with vinyl. CDs don't do that. Inherently less distortion with cds, i'm certain.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadbang I'm ready to throw my td-125 out the window

Careful you could kill someone. Those things are heavy

What arm and cart have you got on your 125 and what kind of music do you listen to.

 

[chadbang]

I've got an original Thorens TP-14 on it and, after going around the cartridge merry-go-round decided on keeping an Ortofon OM20 (best soundstaging).

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadbang I've got an original Thorens TP-14 on it and, after going around the cartridge merry-go-round decided on keeping an Ortofon OM20 (best soundstaging).

Ortofon's arn't exactly known for their warmth though.. I would have thought something like a Shure M-97 or Stanton 681 would be more to your liking? I have Supex 901 on mine which is very warm so you could also try tracking one of these down. It's a high output MC so will work with a normal MM phono stage ok although I am not sure about whether it will work with the TP14. A Denon 103 might also be a good option.
I am not too sure of the arm per se but it may be worth rewiring? It's meant to be one of the better Thorens ones but maybe something like an SME3009 would be more up your alley.
Have you serviced the deck completely? There is a good article here by written by Joel Boutreux, an ex Thorens employee.http://www.vinylengine.com/images/forum/thorens.pdf
There are lots of Thorens TD125 owners on the vinyl engine so maybe it's worth posting there as well.

 

[skysaxon]

I've always disliked the logistics of vinyl, especially the setup of turntables and the maintenance of those finicky things. Not to mention surface noise, crackles, scratches and all the other stuff you have to put up with vinyl. When CDs came out, I celebrated them and for years was a staunch proponent. However, I was smart enough to make needle drops of some of my favorite LPs and only recently dug them out and gave them a listen. Wow. The music came alive for me again and put their official CDs to shame. The feel and ambience of the sound just engulfs the room and everything falls into place. The detail and dynamics that impressed me so much with CD now seem to be shallow and out-of-place. Hey that acoustic guitar shouldn't be that loud on the CD. Those background voices are really cool to be so pronounced on the CD but the vinyl sources instead blends the voices and instruments into an homogenous whole. I feel apart of the music and get that feeling again in the pit of my stomach when music and sounds blend into an organic whole.

I can't blame CDs. After all, they play the needle drops beautifully. It must be as Dylan intimated, the mastering and manufacturing of the things. Or, maybe it's just me. My ears and those of the industry are definitely interested in different things. And with the majority of the listening population devolving into poorer and poorer reproductions of music via downloads and compressed files, quality sound is now just a niche segment, relegated to online forums and rich audiophiles. Yeah, but I still have my needle drops. I can put up with the static and scratches with recorded music that moves me again.

 

[MarkyMark]

I just attended the Hi-Fi News & Record Review show in London this past weekend and got to hear a lot of high-end equipment, including speakers costing £10k+. Interestingly, many high-end demos were being done with vinyl although in a number of rooms I also got to hear high quality CD. Whilst CD produced some great sound, I generally felt the vinyl 'breathed' more naturally.

CD can offer some great specs but remember that they were drafted in the 1970's and it is debatable that 16/44.1Khz sampling is sufficient. CD also has other technical issues - distortion increases at lower levels. Hence the rise of hi-rez. I think this is the real challenger to vinyl. On the other hand, CD replay is maturing all the time - the latest Naim CD player (£14k!) is apparently amazing. Unfortunately, I didn't get to hear it but I did get to hear the Chord Blu/DAC64 which look and sound fantastic.

 

[vpivinylspinner]

I am obviously a vinyl guy but I have to say that I have been very impressed with some of the new CDPs hitting the market. The lower priced (comparatively) CDPs $2-5k today blow away much more expensive players from 5 years ago in most of the comparisons I have done. I am a big fan of what Wadia and Meridian are doing with their midlevel CDPs. I recently invested in a new high end CDP and I am getting alot of use out of it. It is certainly more efficient when sitting down for listening sessions. However, if I have a choice between getting an album on Vinyl or CD I will always choose Vinyl, though I eventuually buy it on CD as well. Though the CDP is 6 times more expensive than my current vinyl set up it just can't do alot of the things that my turntable can. Maybe it is just psychological bias, but I don't see it changing unless the CDP makes a big advance. I actually let the unitiated (Bose Wave Radio, Boom Box crowd) listen to albums in both CD and Vinyl format and tell me what they preferred and why and the great majority choose my turntable over my CDP.

 

[chadbang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by memepool Ortofon's arn't exactly known for their warmth though.. I would have thought something like a Shure M-97 or Stanton 681 would be more to your liking? I have Supex 901 on mine which is very warm so you could also try tracking one of these down. It's a high output MC so will work with a normal MM phono stage ok although I am not sure about whether it will work with the TP14. A Denon 103 might also be a good option. I am not too sure of the arm per se but it may be worth rewiring? It's meant to be one of the better Thorens ones but maybe something like an SME3009 would be more up your alley. Have you serviced the deck completely? There is a good article here by written by Joel Boutreux, an ex Thorens employee.http://www.vinylengine.com/images/forum/thorens.pdf There are lots of Thorens TD125 owners on the vinyl engine so maybe it's worth posting there as well.

I actually just returned a Shure M97 to Amazon. Nice, their return policy doesn't list cartridges as non-returnable! It was a TAD darker than the Ortofon, but lost tons in air and imaging. I was very surprised by how mediocre it was, after reading all these raves (of course, Tuberoller didn't like Shures -- I should have know better.) When I bought the TD-125 it came with an old Grado cartridge which actually sounded more like I thought vinyl should sound. The stylus was shot and distorting, but it was nicely dark and full sounding. I'd love to hear a new Grado sans distortion. I wonder if the Black is really what I'm looking for. Tuberoller said he thought it sounded veiled and syrupy. Maybe that's what I need.

 

[studeb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadbang Well, I've tweaked, guaged, balanced, dampened, amped, cartridged and turntabled. I'm ready to throw my td-125 out the window.

when you do, let me know, i will catch it.....