[CaseJ]

I was wondering, if you used one of these cheap phono stages as a preamp like i would to my rogue audio tempest II would it use the main amp as the beaf or would it try to use only its self? I would be using it for speakers.

 

[Ori]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaseJ /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was wondering, if you used one of these cheap phono stages as a preamp like i would to my rogue audio tempest II would it use the main amp as the beaf or would it try to use only its self? I would be using it for speakers.

A phono stage is just another preamp in the audio chain. You still need a line-level preamp and an amplifier and each has its own sound signature. The better the phono stage the less likely that it will become the 'weak link' in this chain.

 

[CaseJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ori /img/forum/go_quote.gif A phono stage is just another preamp in the audio chain. You still need a line-level preamp and an amplifier and each has its own sound signature. The better the phono stage the less likely that it will become the 'weak link' in this chain.

Thanks a lot

 

[noseallinit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gil Schwartzman /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would really like to get a turntable. However, I currently only have three vinyls... and I've yet to find any others I really want. I know there are some out there, but just the same I an not head over heels for vinyl... for now anyways. But, I do want to listen to what I have. I see a lot of way expensive turn tables...way more than I want to spend. Are there any turntables in the $100 area that could do me right? I don't need anything fancy long as it works and sounds good.

have you thought about getting a friend or a service to record those 3 LP's onto CD-R since you may not have a strong desire to collect Vinyl?

 

[Gil Schwartzman]

Can anyone offer some insight on this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...484629-7937502

or

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...484629-7937502

Says it doesn't require a preamp, which i'd think would be good for starting off (though not as good for sound quality)?

How would something like this compare to CD audio? Would it be worth it to start, just to try and get a feel for Vinyl and make up my mind before I start spending?

Oh, and as far as interest goes, that is up. I didn't realize Vinyl was as prevalent as it was for the music I listen to, and in just a few hours, I found 20-30 Vinyl's I woudln't mind owning.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gil Schwartzman /img/forum/go_quote.gif Can anyone offer some insight on this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...484629-7937502 or http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...484629-7937502 .

Junk in a word. These are the kind of turntables that made CD take off in the first place.

Check Audiogon or your local craigslist for 2nd hand stuff in this kind of price-range. You will find many great budget decks from the '70s and '80s from the likes of Technics, Sansui, Pioneer, Dual and even maybe Thorens if you are lucky, which will give you a much better idea of the way vinyl can sound.

These decks on Amazon are more likely to make you wonder how anyone in their right mind could listen to vinyl...

 

[lini]

GS: If you insist on buying new, the cheapest half-decent entry-level table I'd recommend is the Technics SL-BD20: http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-Tech...&s=electronics

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[Ori]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gil Schwartzman /img/forum/go_quote.gif Can anyone offer some insight on this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...484629-7937502

I agree that this unit is not ideal, but it has some things that make it acceptable for trying vinyl and any half-decent turntable is better than no turntable...
This unit is belt-driven and should provide low rumble noise, although the specs don't show that. The magnetic cartridge means that it runs with low stylus pressure, which is prefered. The built-in preamp makes it very easy to use on a low budget.
Here are some of the issues... 9 lbs is not heavy enough. The platter weighs probably 2-3 lbs and does not have much inertia. Automatic operation can be good or bad, and in the cheaper unit probably bad. Semi-automatic is prefered, because it guarantees that the tonearm would lift at the end of record but doesn't have all the other mechanical "crap" which gets in the way of good sound.
A major issue with quality turntables is the quality of the bearings, both at the platter shaft and the tonearm base. In some respects I prefer the direct-drive units at the low price bracket, because the motor shaft is likely better than whatever else a manufacturer may use on a cheap belt-drive turntable. The tonearm is as bad in both cases and very basic at best. Light composite or thin gauge aluminum tonearms without precision bearings would not produce bass well and are likely to resonate in the audio band, thus altering the frequency response. Older beat up records may require a very good tonearm and cartridge to track the groove correctly and this unit is not it... Some people might say that it "plays" so it's OK, but a needle that's "jumping" in the groove can cause groove damage and you'll hear that in less treble extension and possibly less stereo separation.
Next major issue is the cartridge and the stylus (needle). At $69 it's hard to justify high quality components, so the cartridge is very basic and may even be non-replaceable, so what you see is what you're stuck with. The stylus is probably spherical with poor tracking. All I can say in its defense is that it's not a ceramic cartridge, like they used to have in the old times...
And a phono stage with 0.25% distortion is not great either, but it's likely no worse than any $29 phono stage on ebay. Probably the exact same opamp and circuit...
All in all, if you have more money then go for a better quality used turntable with a seperate phono stage.
If you just want to try with minimal risk then the above option is acceptable. It might be - for some people - all the vinyl gear they care to have!

 

[grayfoot]

Lots of good advice given above. Vinyl on the cheap is relative. $500 turntable setup was a lot better than a CD player in the same price range a few years ago but CD's have come a long way.

I would second the advice above about buying a cheap new turntable. You'll regret it right from the start.

Look for a used simple turntable like a pro-ject 1.2 or technics belt drive on audiogon or ebay. The same goes for a phono preamp. The Needle Doctor can set you up with a new cartridge without breaking the bank.

Exploring the weird, wonderful world of vinyl is fun....

 

[Gil Schwartzman]

My biggest hurdle right now is the cost, and even more so, the fact that I have yet to find anything on vinyl that I cannot find on CD also. So, I suppose a better question, how much needs to be spent on Vinyl to get better than CD quality?

 

[Ori]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gil Schwartzman /img/forum/go_quote.gif My biggest hurdle right now is the cost, and even more so, the fact that I have yet to find anything on vinyl that I cannot find on CD also. So, I suppose a better question, how much needs to be spent on Vinyl to get better than CD quality?

It depends a lot on the quality of your CD playback...

In general, vinyl would sound more "natural" vs. a low-cost CD player, even at a similar low price level for the turntable setup. However, I don;t think that vinyl is a replacement of CD. Each has its pros and cons and both have a legitimate reason for existing in today's high-end systems.
That may cease to be true in a few years, and I mean that for both formats...

But life is short and if you have a few vinyl pices that you really like then it's worth an entry level price in my book.
My basic recommended setup includes the AR Sugden BD2 "Connoisseur" turntable, preferably with an ADC XLM-II cartridge. This combo runs between $100-250, depending on the day of the week and whether you're wearing black or red socks...

Amplification on a budget is a simple matter of buying a decent early 80's discrete preamp. I recommend the NAD 1020B but those who like more "sparkling" highs might prefer the Adcom GFP-1. Both can be had for under $100.
If you are super lucky you might pick up a Dynaco PAS tube preamp for $150. Not only it contains a phono stage but it's a decent preamp in general and can be improved with minor mods.
Bottom line is that judicious purchasing of vinyl gear can get you excellent results at a modest budget of $500 or so. Some people would tell you that a decent DAC would cost you upwards of $3000 in the market today... (I didn't say that!)

 

[james__bean]

Personally I like to buy most of my vinyl from local record stores. This one store in particular always has prices at least comparable to the major online record shops already listed in the thread. If you consider shipping it basically always comes out cheaper. On top of that, there are a good number of records where the prices will actually be better than anything you can find online, ebay or otherwise. Actually, on Friday I got Massive Attack's 100th window (a 3LP set) for $20 new.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gil Schwartzman /img/forum/go_quote.gif My biggest hurdle right now is the cost, and even more so, the fact that I have yet to find anything on vinyl that I cannot find on CD also. So, I suppose a better question, how much needs to be spent on Vinyl to get better than CD quality?

Rega P2 or 3 would be the entry level for comparison to CD I think, in that the RB250/300 tonearms set the basic standard having a CD like level of detail but a bit of soul as well. This is why the Rega has been so successful in my opinion but a Technics SL1200 with a Rega arm would be even better.

If you go backwards into the 1970s then the tonearms specifically sound a lot more coloured so the sound overall is more difficult to compare. This is not necessarily a bad thing by any means it's just an SME III for example sounds so totally different to any CD player that comparisons become more difficult to separate from matters of taste.

If you are more interested in experiencing the 'classic vinyl sound' than comparing it with CD then even an entry level 70s budget deck like the Pioneer PL12D or Sansui SR222 will give you enough of a hint of this to see what all the fuss is about. A Thorens TD150/160 is a class above this in stock form but with a modern tonearm and a few tweaks it's a big step up from most CD players.

As a rule with analogue, spending twice as much can actually get you something which sounds twice as good from the same media, unlike CD where the entry level is a higher standard to start with but spending increasingly huge amounts of money gives you ever decreasing improvements.