[]eep]

To be honest, that's exactly what I'd love to see.

How does the frequency response and channel separation look?
And how does it change with tracking force, alignment, capacitance, loading impedance, with another slip mat, etc.

So many elitists swear on being able to hear the tiniest differences (e.g. using a different rubber feet) but basically refuse to acknowledge what you pointed out right there..

tracking force alone has a huge impact, imo.
I'd love to have measurements to see the actual impact those things have.

e.g. loading impedance massively impacts treble on MC carts, I feel like.
But how massive is it actually?

That last question about 'rising treble' on MC is answered for you right here with a new video from an expert.



So, that is a myth. An mc is flatter than an incorrectly loaded MM.
Here is the one that I received with my cartridge from Dynavector. It measures ruler flat. And it says nothing about all the trouble I experience with it.

 

[mbphotox]

so it's okay for you to claim to hear the flies fart but when I say that there's a massive difference in treble with different loading, it's a myth?!
If that's the case, I don't need to bother with those stupid cartridges with expensive needles anyways, because my ears are apparently so ****ed-up that I'm imagining myths already
I can switch loading impedance on my phono pre and the difference is very audible...


That's the only thing with measurements I could find right now: http://www.extremephono.com/Loading.htm


Stereo magazine tested the Hana Umami and measured an insane peak in the treble. unfortunately they didn't provide measurements at different loading impedances, because I've heard from dozens of people who own Hana cartridges and reported that changing the loading impedance had a massive impact on the treble.
https://stereo-magazine.com/review/hana-umami-red-review

 

[]eep]

so it's okay for you to claim to hear the flies fart but when I say that there's a massive difference in treble with different loading, it's a myth?!
If that's the case, I don't need to bother with those stupid cartridges with expensive needles anyways, because my ears are apparently so ****ed-up that I'm imagining myths already
I can switch loading impedance on my phono pre and the difference is very audible...


That's the only thing with measurements I could find right now: http://www.extremephono.com/Loading.htm


Stereo magazine tested the Hana Umami and measured an insane peak in the treble. unfortunately they didn't provide measurements at different loading impedances, because I've heard from dozens of people who own Hana cartridges and reported that changing the loading impedance had a massive impact on the treble.
https://stereo-magazine.com/review/hana-umami-red-review

Maybe you should just watch the video. I just posted it here. Paul McGowan said it, not me. He started his career making phono-amps. So write him an email instead of going off at me. Or comment on his video.

If the Umami has a peak in the treble, I would suspect it has more to do with tuning and resonance control (cantilever and damper) than electrical properties (coils and magnet).

Also, what I noticed is that treble on MM is coarser and gritty, on MC it sounds more fluid, detailed and airy without being pronounced.


What I will also STRONGLY emphasize is the amount and amplitude treble over 10kHz has in music. Which is totally divergent from a pilot tone at 0dB. That graph shows a nice hockey stick but if you look at the scale, things are not that alarming. A 5dB rise at 20kHz is inaudible at -40dB for nearly everybody. Remember, the dB scale is determined as 1dB is the least discernable difference of loudness. But that is not measured at 20kHz, or 10. In real music that 2dB difference at 14kHz I see is close to audible, discernable threshold. Or hearing is far, far, far from linear.

 

[mbphotox]

Maybe you should just watch the video. I just posted it here. Paul McGowan said it, not me. He started his career making phono-amps. So write him an email instead of going off at me. Or comment on his video.

If the Umami has a peak in the treble, I would suspect it has more to do with tuning and resonance control (cantilever and damper) than electrical properties (coils and magnet).

Also, what I noticed is that treble on MM is coarser and gritty, on MC it sounds more fluid, detailed and airy without being pronounced.


What I will also STRONGLY emphasize is the amount and amplitude treble over 10kHz has in music. Which is totally divergent from a pilot tone at 0dB. That graph shows a nice hockey stick but if you look at the scale, things are not that alarming. A 5dB rise at 20kHz is inaudible at -40dB for nearly everybody. Remember, the dB scale is determined as 1dB is the least discernable difference of loudness. But that is not measured at 20kHz, or 10. In real music that 2dB difference at 14kHz I see is close to audible, discernable threshold. Or hearing is far, far, far from linear.

He's a great guy and he's written some great articles about amplifiers and how they don't affect sound at all. (I guess you've read that too, right?)

Anyways, I hear what I hear.. and oh so many others hear it too.. maybe we're just all ****ed in the brain and some guy claiming it to be a myth is right.. Too bad they didn't bother to show measurements at all.
That said, a lot of people also hear differences at 0.5dB, so your 1dB claim is not right..
And I can still hear up to 15 kHz without issue, but that's not the topic here. The differences are NOT at 15 kHz and NOT merely 1dB!


These actual measurements were made with an MC cartridge to show this "myth":

As you can see, this generic MC cartridge loaded at 33 Ohms is at -5 dB (8 kHz - 20kHz) while there's a +3dB peak at 17 kHz when loaded with 150 Ohms..
that only increases as the impedance goes up.

Now, the crucial part is not the +x dB at 10-20 kHz that happens. It's the fact that you have -5dB at upper mids to lower treble while higher load impedance gets that to 0 dB deviation from 1 kHz.

As I'm sure you know, this is easily perceivable, because the treble rolls off.. the sound appears dull.
Increase the loading impedance and that roll-off becomes less pronounced.

And that's EXACTLY what people like me can HEAR with our own damn ears.
Some MC cartridges have high internal impedance, so they need relatively higher load impedance (e.g. 400 Ohms for the Umami red) to not sound muddy and dull. With a generic phono preamp that delivers 100 Ohms, those cartridges will simply suck.

 

[]eep]

Why are you being so argumentative? I'm trying to be constructive. I'm just telling you what I learned (yes, I learned acoustics and sound in architectural physics) and trying to calm your measurement frenzy by citing what other established engineers and audiophiles think. It correlates with my long year experience. But still, that is limited. I do know a lot of basics that others in the audio world lack though.

I have used a transformer for mc from the start and know to avoid high impedance cartridges. Even now with my Gold Note that has many options on the fly I don't hear much difference between loading on the treble. And however good it is on MC with all its options I still highly prefer the transformer.

Also, I started with MC with a Yamaha high output MC21 and later a Milktek Aurora (Kiseki) both on 47k, and they never sounded harsh. Just incredibly good.

So you try to convince all day long but I don't care about measurements. Only to check if things are ok. I just repaired a pair of my speaker builds that got mangled in a move and yes I measured them. But just as a tool. Not for final testing.

Oh, and what you quote as 'actual measurement' is clearly not a measurement but a simulated graph for educational or marketing use. It doesn't even state what cartridge it is. No real life measurement is that mathematically smooth. That is also something I learned in statistics for chemical analysis. Real measurements require analisys and are never that clean. There are always abberations from the mean trend. Life is messy.

I don't think this discussion is very constructive and therefore I won't go into it any further. I don't think it's fun for anyone.

I just cleaned the mono Brahms lp I bought. It is a 60 years old recording and the piano sounded absolutely realistic and dynamic. That was fun.

 

[TS0711]

Has one used Ultrasonic cleaning to clean up their vinyl? I have the Humminguru Ultrasonic Cleaner. But it's very slow due to only being able to clean 1 at a time. It works fine for what it is. I was able to 12 records, but it took me 3 hours with 15 minutes per record.

Just wondering if there is a better solution out there.

I bought one of these "Happybuy Ultrasonic Cleaner" from Amazon and have been very satisfied. I can get about 6 clean at a time, but it does take awhile. I usually go for about 40 minutes, per batch. I also use an additive, but I forget the brand. (You just add a few drops.) For the money it was a Happybuy

 

[]eep]

Serendipity? Coincidence? Well, maybe, maybe not entirely. Anyway, something that I never saw on reviews or in the 'vinyl community' on YouTube pops up a second time within a week or so.



Yes, he admits profusely he is new to vinyl etc. But he gets good advice. And what makes him wise; he listens.
He did something strange, or there is something weird wit the YBA phono, but you cannot put a transformer on an MC input. Unless the specs he shows on the screen for the YBA MC input are correct (47kOhm input impedance is NOT standard, not for direct connection to an MC cartridge).

Anyway, his findings are pretty spot on.

Ps: he says he received many comments on this. My long email was probably one of them. So it might have something to do with that. Or not. He never responded. But he did take the advice.

Edit: that YBA ph1 is kind of an oddball device. Not the battery power, but the mysterious MC input. Terry is correct in stating it as 47kOhm on the MC. And the YBA site states it so. But that has to be with the switch on mc-high. The MC low is 'auto-sensing', it uses a transformer (huh?) And delivers only 50dB of amplification. This is not nearly enough by any standard. And only 5dB more than the 45dB on MM. So I suspect it lowers the opamp amplification factor to 24dB with the 26dB (it says) of the transformer. So how can Terry daisy chain a transformer on a transformer and still sound good? You get in serious trouble with impedances.
The way I can think of is using several taps on the transformer and switching them in combination with the amplification factor of the opamp stage.

No wonder he had so much trouble with the MC cartridge getting it to sound good. An MC input with 50 dB is like hanging up new curtains with a footstool.

 

[]eep]

I finally mounted my new cartridge. I think it took me half an hour. I'm not sure because that's not what I was focussing on but it was really easy since the other cartridge is the same brand and geometry. So all I had to do is unscrew, get the new one, remove tags and put them on the new cartridge and screw it while pushing it slightly towards the pivot. The plate belonging to the arm defines the position.

Only the new expensive cartridge does not have a stylus cover. And the silver arm wires are as thin as a hair. So my advice take a dump first (seriously, this helps steady hands) and a glass of your favourite alcoholic beverage.

All I had to do is check alignment, VTA and azimuth. All exactly straight the first time. And then the VTF. Man, I was afraid the stub was too short. It's a heavy bugger. You want to twist the counterweight all the way forward when mounting or you'll see some trebuchet action (the front pulls up to much for comfortably pushing on the tags while the cartridge is lying on its head on the platter). After 421 twists or so I checked and BAM; 2.00 grams. No fine adjusting just right in 1 try.

Now it's playing my first LP, Peer Gynt Suites by Karajan on DGG. "In the hall of the mountain king" was quite impressive. As a Dutch comedian quipped: "Wolt Ihr ein stückchen Grieg? Oder wollt Ihr den totalen Grieg?". No, I don't want a tip, I want the whole 12".

First lp. It needs 30h to settle it says. But it already sounds great. I get a great sense of space of the concert hall in Berlin and better definition of instruments in the back. All silver from cart, to arm, to cable, to transformer, to cable. Bling where it actually serves a purpose.

Even if it's not as advertised, it is already a great performer out of the box. My first Shibata I was looking forward to really is beautiful. Not counting the price, which makes it even more astounding (I payed €735 remember).

 

[]eep]

Ugh. Either I'm getting old or just lazy. Just found this out how usefull my camera app (Google Lens) is. Duh. I held the added label in front and it translated it for me in very clear English (I'll spare you the initial Dutch version).

See, acupuncture is good for your mental wellbeing.

It would be advisable for them to put that sticker on the outside instead of the message in a bottle version. Or make a cardboard box with proper labeling. And maybe give it a name?

Here's the other one, the one with the ceramic cantilever:

I really wonder: the coils should be the same. This one states 40 Ohm internal: recommended load 400. I do believe it's actually 4 Ohm and Rrec 40 Ohms. Anyway, strange how all these specs are somehow fudgable yet the price matches the product. No fooling about misgendering there.

Edit: see, don't trust AI. The sticker uses an Ω symbol and Googly eyed Lens make that an extra 0.

 

[mbphotox]

if it truly needed greater than 400 Ohms, it would sound like crap on any non-adjustable MC phono preamp..

 

[]eep]

40 Ohms is rather common (Denon). But as I said, it was a Google Lens artificial stupidity error. Also I wouldn't have bought it if it were 40 Ω.

These Chinese tend to use transformers a lot, since they like old-school, or traditional. So they make their cartridges with practical values.

I'm now enjoying some Mercury Living Presence half speed mastering Lp's. I really have to turn up the volume and still it's so quiet. These are really good reissues.

 

[]eep]

I want to share something I came across that I totally missed. And since some here love the Ortofon spu line, this arm could be very interesting. Handmade in the Netherlands so prices are accordingly.

I was looking for the Funk Firm achromat and was led to the website of https://audio-creativeshop.nl/
They are the home of the phonodude tube phono amplifier (the one Ana[dia]log was talking about very positive). And the GrooveMaster arm. See the video (in German). And also your Lenco upgrade kits or MC transformer.

 

[CJG888]

Looks a bit like an old FR-24 from that angle…

 

[]eep]

This just popped up today. Featuring the Supatrack unipivot arm. Soundsamples and announcing a review. Again, not cheap. But is is a unique system with the unipivot pointing forward, so when the stylus pulls on the arm, it cannot rattle or move. (Yes, Miyajima uses the same idea for the cantilever).

 

[]eep]

Looks a bit like an old FR-24 from that angle…

I think they want to appeal to SPU users nostalgic feelings. But with modern manufacturing techniques.

Anyway, I would have a hard time choosing between this and the Supatrack. Both about the same price. Only it's about double my eventual budget. I might just be able to get an Audiomods.