[eertelppa]

Hi everyone,
 
Spending hours searching and reading things can get confusing and overwhelming. There seems to be endless threads of whats best etc. I wanted to wait until I go to a meet but it seems like that will not be until January.
 
So what do I want...
 
To listen to vinyl records.
 
 
I seem to be confused on all the stuff its really overwhelming. I tried searching for a noob/beginners guide etc.
 
Some words that I keep reading (some I know what they are, some I am unsure how often they need to be changed, some I have no clue, some I am unsure of their importance....feel free to discuss any of the points you are familiar with)
-Turntable
-Phono stage
-Speakers/Headphones
-Cartridge
-Arm
-Scale
-Level
-Belt driven
-Direct drive
-etc etc etc etc
 
It seems there are so so much stuff. Mainly I would like to get myself going and I know there is a common beginner tables that people start with and seem to be suggested a lot. I'd prefer to spend the extra on the whole set up in order to prevent excess upgrading. Something that isn't the best but it is plenty good enough for many years to come.
 
Budget: preferably $500 but up to $1000 (I would rather get something I could keep for a really long time and just have to worry about a new arm/cartridge and all that stuff)
 
Any places of thread to read, websites to visit, or advice is highly appreciated. It seems a lot to get vinyl going and my girlfriend has been asking for a long time to get into it but it seems like a lot of stuff involved thus I want to get my head around it and learn my own set up and maybe find a simple solution for her for Christmas or something, who knows.
 
Sorry for asking this the 3000th time its just so overwhelming and a little direction is appreciated. I would have no problem finding an older/vintage but nice working high end turntable that I could make a case for and get a cartridge and all that fun stuff.
 
 
Thanks so much for anyone willing to take the time and help me out.
 
Austin

 

[eertelppa]

Welp in the meantime I will be reading through (so far) 76 chapters of articles from the Vinyl Anachronist. I saw Uncle Erik mention it in a few threads and well it seems to be an endless supply of reading.
 
Maybe it will shed some light to things.....

 

[ortofoninc]

Hey Austin,
 
Let's see if I can give you a brief rundown.
 
-Turntable - another word for phonograph, record player, etc
 
-Phono stage - another term for "phono preamp" - this is a unit required to take the low voltage output from the cartridge/needle, amplify it, and add the necessary equalization in order to enjoy full frequency playback.  A very over simplified reason for this is that the RIAA standard dictates that the vinyl master is cut with less bass in order to achieve proper cutting volumes and to fit more information on each side of the record.  The phono stage applies RIAA emphasis which boosts those bass frequencies (among other things).
 
-Speakers/Headphones - not sure what these are
 
-Cartridge - your phonograph needle.  Can be two types, Moving Magnet (inexpensive typically, with a higher output), and Moving Coil (usually pricier, offer better sound quality, but they have a very low output which means that you might need a specialized phono stage or Moving Coil amplifier in order to use them).  Should be replaced around the 1,000-2,000 hour mark, depending on model.
 
-Arm - The tonearm, holds the cartridge.
 
-Scale - Many turntable users make use of a specialized high precision scale to determine the amount of force being applied to the cartridge.  Each cartridge has its sweet spot for tracking force, which makes a scale a useful tool to own.
 
-Level - A spirit or 'bubble' level.  It's very important that the table is as level as possible for best playback.
 
-Belt driven - The motor is connected to a belt, which then spins the platter.  Most tables are belt driven - some people love belt drives, others claim that they lack speed stability.
 
-Direct drive - The motor is connected directly to the platter.  Some people praise these for speed stability, others criticize them for the noise/vibration generated by having the motor directly attached to the platter.
 
-etc etc etc etc - here's a couple more things
 
Idler drive - A wheel which is underneath the platter makes contact with the underside of the platter in order to spin it.  Some people love these because they're said to have thunderous dynamic capability.  Others say that the idler is noisy.
 
Actually, you know what....  This is pretty expansive, so if you run into any vinyl specific questions, you can always email me.  And that goes for anybody here.
 
ldorio-at-ortofon-dot-us
 
 

 

[eertelppa]

Wow thanks so much for that. Answered so many questions and helped summarize the pages and pages of things I have been reading about.
 
No for me to find a turntable that will A) get the job done B) be something that will last me for years to come C) attempt to be at that peak of performance vs price before the curve starts leveling off. D) be around 500 or less to give me money to buy a nice arm and cartridge.
 
 
Does the arm ever need to be changed or just the cartridge? And is the needle separate from the cartridge (as in does the needle need to be replaced more often then the cartridge)?
 
Thanks again for your help and taking your time to answer my questions.

 

[ortofoninc]

You bet, it's my pleasure to help out.
 
If you have a good enough tonearm, you'll never need to replace it.  People generally go with more sophisticated arms because they provide smoother bearings, which in the end are said to deliver less distortion and more micro-details.
 
If you use a moving magnet cartridge, you'll want to replace the stylus (the needle) every 1,200 hours or so.  Some people will say they will let a stylus go for 2,000+ hours, and that's fine too, but to preserve best sound quality you might want to stick to a lower figure.  In theory, you shouldn't really need to worry about buying a new cartridge, if you really like what you have, then simply replacing the stylus regularly will be adequate to keep things sounding great.
 
Now as far as a table that meets your price goal...  I'd recommend the venerable Technics 1200.  I know what people say about them, and how they're not HiFi tables and blah blah blah.  They hold their own VERY well against tables costing twice the price.  That is, if you can deal with the pro-audio look of them.  In my opinion, you don't really start to approach next level performance until you get past the $2,000 mark, and once you get there you'll need a whole rash of other accessories to help you realize the potential of a true high class table.  I'm not saying it's not worth it to go down that road, but that you should be ready to shell out major bucks to do it.
 
As I mentioned before, for ANYONE who wants to ask general questions concerning phonograph turntables and analog playback, I'm always happy to help, just email ldorio-at-ortofon-dot-us. 
 
Best regards
 
Louis / Ortofon USA
 

 

[Stevtt]

In that price range you will Get a few suggestions. I'm not that experienced so won't try to give you any suggestions. I will say I've had good luck with pro-ject/music halls. I would think that you would probably do better pushing a little toward 1,000.00 including a phono stage.

 

[eertelppa]

Thank you both for your advice.
 
Louis,
 
Thank you for your advice and insight. I want you to know I am very appreciative. I am 23 so most of it will be purchased by myself but I have a birthday coming up near Christmas. My parents and the whole family are looking to get me something thus me wanting to find a solid turntable and go for it (that way they can help out with it). I will most likely look for a quality tonearm and cartridge as time goes on (on my own time and research).
 
For now I would like to spend around $500 on the turntable. You suggested the Technics 1200. Any other suggestions or turntables (in your opinion) to look at? I know there are a plethora of options out there, but I would really like to find one that I could stick with and never look back. (You know kinda of at the sweet spot of money vs value, at or near the peak of that logarithmic curve) Sorry if that doesn't make sense.
 
Also none of my vinyl friends (mostly my age) know of cleaning records. I keep reading over and over on this forum the importance of cleaning records. Any insight on this component of the vinyl world?
 
 
Please anyone else with suggestions (I realize everyone will have their own) or advice feel free to provide your input. I really do not ever want the need to upgrade or change my turntable unless I am ready to go above 2000 or something. Thus buy it once (even if I go to $700) and be done with it so I can spend time and money on an arm and cartridge would be my preference.
 
Regards,
 
Austin
 
edit: This thread is pushing me toward the 1200. I would love to read and look into other competitors (or highly suggested) to make sure and be confident in my decision, but lots of people think highly of them (although playing devils advocate most probably are owners themselves). There also seems to be multiple models and mk2, m3d, etc etc....

 

[Stevtt]

When I first got back into vinyl, I bought a new Pro-ject expression III with a Pro-ject phono stage for about 600.00 from Underwood Hifi off of Audiogon. I was very happy with it.  I'm pretty sure he has a couple of Music Hall MMF 5.1's for sale for about 650.00 (I think).  I had a VPI 16.5 record cleaner, sold it, and now have a Spin Clean I got for about 79.00 and am very happy with it.

 

[eertelppa]

Stevtt,
 
Thanks for the advice and experience you have had with turntables. I looked into those and have decided to continue my search. There seems to be an endless amount of choices out there. Just want to find one where I do not have to mess with the turntable for a really long time. I do not mind one bit upgrading the arm or cartridge but I would like the turntable to be set in stone.
 
There seem to be lots of threads on turntables (like 1000s) and I have been reading a lot of peoples experiences.
 
Anyone else is welcome to pitch in as always.
 
Austin

 

[Stevtt]

Good luck to you. The hunt is half the fun. I'm kinda surprised no more of the vinyl gurus have joined int. Must have slipped through the cracks. There is a wealth of knowledge out there

 

[Uncle Erik]

Don't kill yourself over a first turntable. You won't know what you really want in a turtable until you spend some time with one. You'll learn about the setup and the strengths/weaknesses of your first deck. That will point the way to a deck you can spend a long time with.

So pick up one of the popular beginner decks, like the Rega P3 or a Technics SL1200. They're both good. Use it for awhile and then see if you want to try something else.

Also, buy used. You'll find quite a few at Audiogon. I bought two and had great experiences. The first guy was local, so I went to pick it up. He spent a couple hours telling me about setup, listening to records, and chatting. It was a good deal and a great time. The next table came shipped in its original box, completely disassembled like it was brand new. It was less than half of retail, as well.

 

[Stevtt]

I'm living testimony to that fact that you probably won't stick with your first turntable. If you're on this forum there's a very good chance you won't be satisfied with your first one so why not use your first one as a learning experience? The smart choice would be not to throw a lot of money into that one. Use it to get a feel for what you want.

 

[eertelppa]

Thanks guys,
 
I hear what you are saying. As much as I would like to avoid "upgrading" and constantly buying and then selling I think I will be quite content with a Technics 1200. I will look to buy one then begin the search for a nice arm and cartridge. This will get my ears wet and allow me to see things I enjoy, don't enjoy, wish I had, wish I didn't have, etc.
 
Moving on can anyone enlighten me on this whole vinyl cleaning business? From what I have read it seems to be a "critical" aspect of using records.
 
Thanks again for all the advice and help.

 

[Stevtt]

From what I hear, the 1200 is a great turntable and pretty much bullet proof.  As far as cleaning goes, there will be a lot of difference in opinion on this. I had a VPI 16.5 at one time but sold it when I thought about going portable. I now have a Spin clean which you can get for abouit 79..00 I think. It serves pretty well and I've done about 200 albums with it. I run it throuigh the spin clean when I first get it. Before I put the needle down I run an audio quest carbon fiber brush over it then go to won. I'm still trying to decide if I need a zero stat gun to remove static but since I sold mine I've only come across one I had a problem with and that was the new Neil Young Le noise. I keep a spray bottle of VPI cleaner for that. Spray it down then wpe it off with a clean cloth.

 

[eertelppa]

Hmm ok fair enough. There seem to be a lot of options for everything which makes it tough for me but in the end I am sure more pleasurable for everyone.
 
Seems I will need a cartridge, a tonearm, sleeves (inner and outer), a cleaner, and then to continue my diy amp project.
 
Everyone was a great help. I will lead myself to some threads specific on the 1200 (1210 is what I am looking to buy) and its preferred tonearm/cartridge. Are most tonearms and cartridges compatible with any turntable? Thus if I was to get a nice tonearm and cartridge could I use it still in two years if I decided to get another turntable?
 
Well thanks everyone and I will most likely let this thread drift away, a great deal of my answers were answered and has lead me in the right direction for more specific searching.

 
Austin