[slytown]

I'm new to this. Is there a reason Firewire hasn't been implemented into Hi-Fi DACs?

Like these...

http://www.weiss-highend.ch/minerva/index.html

http://www.proaudiosolutions.com/pro...c-firewire.htm

 

[FallenAngel]

Same implementation limitations and advantages exist in Firewire as USB. Sure it runs 12V instead of 5V but for audio-related stuff, there's no real difference. You still need firmware and drivers.

 

[Bredin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallenAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Uhm... what? I have no idea what you just wrote.

I meant all the things that comes into the cable from outside. If the cable is badly shielded and isolated things other than the audio-signal sould probably enter the cable. Dirty signlas from wifi, fans, power supplies and so on. All the dirt that comes into the cable has to go somewhere, it can't just disapear. That is why you all need the indigo with it's 3 conductors and vibration damped RCA connector

.

 

[FallenAngel]

I don't think the cable picks up interference that easily. Coax cable by definition is not "badly" shielded so I doubt it's a concern and since it's noise in the ground, it's not really as bad as in the signal.

 

[auee]

Does anyone know the price of the Weiss Medea Vesta and who in the States sells it?

Google let me down this time.

 

[joe_cool]

There is a list of USA distributors on their web site.

 

[gabrielo]

wrong thread
/gabi

 

[linuxworks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by slytown /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm new to this. Is there a reason Firewire hasn't been implemented into Hi-Fi DACs?

my guess is the universal answer for most things in this world: "cost"

licensing for firewire might be more than usb. usb is 'lower end' and firewire might be more expensive to certify, get the chipsets. develop firmware, etc.

also, firewire is arguably overkill for audio. video makes sense here but audio should be 'easy' (lol) and so the industry probably thought 'why overdo it?'.

firewire has more isochronous (timed, even output) ability than usb but still, if you 'send ahead' enough and buffer, that does the same job in the end. sending ahead for video requires many more times the speed and b/w and so video needs to be realtime; but audio, imho, does not. audio is perfect for 'store and forward' style bridging and processing.

 

[thoppa]

Has anyone mentioned BNC connectors in this thread ? In particular, double-shielded silver/copper cable with BNC connectors ? I have a custom made 5" cable connecting my SACD/DVD-A to my DAC and it's the best connection I've heard. Invisible.

 

[linuxworks]

we've talked about bnc connectors (vs rca).

the funny thing about spdif, to me, is that it recommends isolation transformers (making it pseudo balanced) yet uses unbalanced coax as the interconnect

I'm not convinced at all that 'high shielding' gets you anything other than a thicker cable, for spdif

this isn't analog where hum and noise WILL be heard. in digital, think of it as 2 conversations going on in the same room with 1 being a lot louder than the other. can you hear the louder (main signal) guy talking and understand his words even if there is chatter in the same room? to keep the analogy along the lines of digital, you have to either understand the words of that loud guy or you don't, there's no middle ground unless the 'interference' becomes SO loud that it does cause drop-outs (so to speak) in the main talker.

think of 'big' half volt square waves and little tiny noise bits riding on it. can you pick out where the starts and stops are, on such a picture? usually, I think you can. and usually, I think the spdif receiver can throw away distracting noise and keep only the 'big' half volt wave changes.

this is why I believe that cables simply don't matter in spdif. there's enough S/N to keep the receiver's job easy enough in 'listening' to the main talker. there might be other talkers in the room but they *never* get so loud that the receiver gets confused. at least that's my experience with spdif.

 

[Solitary1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallenAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's not the USB standard that is a short coming, it is the USB Audio 1.1 protocol that has become the de-facto standard for connecting audio devices to the computer. I don't know of any firewire devices that don't require custom drivers, so I don't know if that's really a comparable standard. USB devices "hiccuping" when others are connected/disconnected is a problem with the specific motherboard and not of the standard or protocol. Personally though, I make sure to keep USB devices on separate hubs (internal USB hub on the motherboard, not additional one - there are 2 USB connections per internal hub).

Well, on the Mac drivers aren't usually needed (for firewire), but I see what you're saying.

 

[linuxworks]

firewire has many layers to it. having a data tranport is one thing but once the packet data arrives, you have to interpret it. I don't believe that there is a standard (between vendors) on how to do this. so each device DOES need drivers.

just like ethernet delivers raw 1500 byte frames to some other ethernet station, it still needs to 'unpack the payload' to make sense of it. that's the vendor-specific driver that I'm talking about.

I would be very surprised if m-audio firewire drivers worked with other vendor's FW audio boxes. RME might equal RME but that's not the only audio device type on FW (is it?)

also, its possible that macs come bundled with 'many vendors' drivers inside. just because a device is recognized does not also mean that it did NOT need a special driver.

 

[tosehee]

linuxworks.

Thanks for informative and very insightful answers. I have a few other questions if you could kindly answer.

1. If what you say is all true, do I essentially hear the same quality from any type of toslink/spdif even if the transport is different? Say I use CD as a transport using optical output as one, and PC with optical output as other. If both can output bit perfect, I should get the exact same result to the external DAC, right?

I have several devices/electronics in the house, and when I hear the music using this approach, I hear differences in sounds.

a. Using BD player as transport
b. Using Airport Express as transport
c. Using PopcornHour as transport (with coaxial this time).

This is somewhat related to the topic here, isn't it? I mean, since the bits and bits and toslink can transmit just 1 and 0, the actual transport used shouldn't matter, right?

 

[tosehee]

Sorry. Double post.

 

[Solitary1]

Let me get this straight. Firewire, designed for streaming audio and video, is good enough to be used by most major studios for the creation and mixing of audio via computers, is not good enough for playback?