[rb2013]

  Hi Bob,
 
I use "Daphile" to play music.
It is a linux based very basic OS optimised for playing music.
With it you can "shut down" every part of your computer that you dont need to play music.
 
it is probably interesting to minimise the cpu load.
 
You can install it on a USB drive for testing (bios : boot on usb device).
 
It would be interesting if you can test it and compare it to windows / Fidelizer ... (with the same USB ultra chain)
 
https://www.daphile.com/#overview
 
installation guide :
https://www.daphile.com/download/DaphileInstallation.pdf
 
 
In my system it is better than foobar.
 
David

That is somewhat interesting.  But not even remotely interested in a Linux solution or other players.  I like Foobar2K very much and countless hours/days/weeks spent learning it inside out (along with some very cool DSP's like SoX and the DSD converter).  Not to mention the 60-70 custom playlists - custom screen layout, etc...
 
WIN10/FB2K with Fidelizer Pro on a dedicated iCore 7 music server is doing just great.

 

[rb2013]

  Interesting - note the on board 12 Mhz crystal ocsillator:
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_flash_drive
 

1	USB Standard-A, "male" plug
2	USB mass storage controller device
3	Test point
4	Flash memory chip
5	Crystal oscillator
6	LED (Optional)
7	Write-protect switch (Optional)
8	Space for second flash memory chip

 

Technology

 

 

 ​

​

Main articles: Flash memory and USB

Flash memory combines a number of older technologies, with lower cost, lower power consumption and small size made possible by advances in microprocessortechnology. The memory storage was based on earlier EPROM and EEPROMtechnologies. These had limited capacity, were slow for both reading and writing, required complex high-voltage drive circuitry, and could be re-written only after erasing the entire contents of the chip.

 

Hardware designers later developed EEPROMs with the erasure region broken up into smaller "fields" that could be erased individually without affecting the others. Altering the contents of a particular memory location involved copying the entire field into an off-chip buffer memory, erasing the field, modifying the data as required in the buffer, and re-writing it into the same field. This required considerable computer support, and PC-based EEPROM flash memory systems often carried their own dedicated microprocessor system. Flash drives are more or less a miniaturized version of this.

The development of high-speed serial data interfaces such as USB made semiconductor memory systems with serially accessed storage viable, and the simultaneous development of small, high-speed, low-power microprocessor systems allowed this to be incorporated into extremely compact systems. Serial access requires far fewer electrical connections for the memory chips than does parallel access, which has simplified the manufacture of multi-gigabytedrives.

 

Essential components

The internal mechanical and electronic parts of a Kingston 2 GB flash drive​

​

There are typically five parts to a flash drive:

1. Standard-A USB plug – provides a physical interface to the host computer.
2. USB mass storage controller – a small microcontroller with a small amount of on-chip ROM andRAM.
3. NAND flash memory chip(s) – stores data (NAND flash is typically also used in digital cameras).
4. Crystal oscillator – produces the device's main 12 MHz clock signal and controls the device's data output through a phase-locked loop.
5. Cover – typically made of plastic or metal, protecting the electronics against mechanical stress and even possible short circuits.

 

I find this really fascinating - so every USB stick contains a PLL'd  12Mhz Crystal Oscillator clock and a dedicated microcontroller WITH on board ROM and RAM!
 
It is literally a small computer on the chip.  This is why it needs a 3.3VDC regulator.
 

The development of high-speed serial data interfaces such as USB made semiconductor memory systems with serially accessed storage viable, and the simultaneous development of small, high-speed, low-power microprocessor systems allowed this to be incorporated into extremely compact systems. Serial access requires far fewer electrical connections for the memory chips than does parallel access, which has simplified the manufacture of multi-gigabytedrives. 

 
So I wonder if modding one of these with a better clock (lower phase noise), and better LDO regulator would have any positive effect on SQ?  Maybe down the road after the 512GB or 1TB ones come way down in price.
 
Also very cool there are real (not counterfeit) 2TB ones coming.  Three of these would provide 6TB of storage - that should cover just about any music collection.
 
Now USB Flash drives are quite a bit different then SD cards - although they all use NAND flash memory chips.
 
For one SD Cards do not have on board clocks, they also can not be used solely as a boot drive on Windows based PC's without a USB controller interface:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital#Micro

SD cards and host devices initially communicate through a synchronous one-bit interface, where the host device provides a clock signal that strobes single bits in and out of the SD card. The host device thereby sends 48-bit commands and receives responses. The card can signal that a response will be delayed, but the host device can abort the dialogue. 

 

Although many personal computers accommodate SD cards as an auxiliary storage device through a built-in slot or a USB adaptor, SD cards cannot be used as the primary hard disk through the onboard ATA controller because none of the SD card variants support ATA signalling. This use requires a separate SD controller chip^[89] or an SD-to-CompactFlash converter. However, on computers that support bootstrapping from a USB interface, an SD card in a USB adaptor can be the primary hard disk, provided it contains an operating system that supports USB access once the bootstrap is complete. 

Transfer modes

Cards may support various combinations of the following bus types and transfer modes. The SPI bus mode and one-bit SD bus mode are mandatory for all SD families, as explained in the next section. Once the host device and the SD card negotiate a bus interface mode, the usage of the numbered pins is the same for all card sizes.

1. SPI bus mode: Serial Peripheral Interface Bus is primarily used by embedded microcontrollers. This bus type supports only a 3.3-volt interface. This is the only bus type that does not require a host license.
2. One-bit SD bus mode: Separate command and data channels and a proprietary transfer format.
3. Four-bit SD bus mode: Uses extra pins plus some reassigned pins. (This is the same protocol as the one-bit SD bus mode which uses one command and four data lines for faster data transfer. All SD cards supports this mode.) UHS-I and UHS-II requires this bus type.
4. Two differential lines SD UHS-II mode: Uses two low-voltage differential interfaces to transfer commands and data. UHS-II cards include that interface in addition to the SD bus modes.

 
 
As for SSD drives:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_drive

 

 
They do have powerful microprocessors and Crystal clocks.

Every SSD includes a controller that incorporates the electronics that bridge the NAND memory components to the host computer. The controller is an embedded processor that executes firmware-level code and is one of the most important factors of SSD performance.^[37] Some of the functions performed by the controller include:^[38][39]

1. Bad block mapping
2. Read and write caching
3. Encryption
4. Error detection and correction via Error-correcting code (ECC)
5. Garbage collection
6. Read scrubbing and read disturb management
7. Wear leveling

Apart from associated connectors, the host interface is not physically a component of the SSD, but it is a key part of the drive. The interface is usually incorporated into the above-discussed controller, and is many times one of the interfaces found in HDDs. They include:

1. Serial attached SCSI (SAS, > 3.0 Gbit/s) – generally found on servers
2. Serial ATA (SATA, > 1.5 Gbit/s)
3. PCI Express (PCIe, > 2.0 Gbit/s)
4. Fibre Channel (> 1.0 Gbit/s) – almost exclusively found on servers
5. USB (> 1.5 Mbit/s)
6. Parallel ATA (IDE, > 26.4 Mbit/s) – mostly replaced by SATA^[79][80]
7. (Parallel) SCSI (> 40 Mbit/s) – generally found on servers, mostly replaced by SAS; last SCSI-based SSD was introduced in 2004^[81]

SSDs support various logical device interfaces, such as the original ATAPI, Advanced Host Controller Interface (AHCI), NVM Express (NVMe), and other proprietary interfaces. Logical device interfaces define the command sets used by operating systems to communicate with SSDs andhost bus adapters (HBAs).

My thought was to try a USB interfacing SSD in lieu of a USB Flashdrive - plugged into one of the empty USB slots on the REX.  But the apparent slower speed of the USB SSD interface kind of discouraged me - 1.5Mbit/s versus 480 Mbit/s for a USB 2.0 stick.  USB 3.0 increases that to 5Gbit/s - but the Startech REX only supports up to USB 2.0 High Speed. Of course the SATA SSD interface used in a PC is  greater then USB 2.0 flash drives.
 
But the idea is to keep the storage conversion outside the PC and retain the other benefits of the USB to Ethernet TCPIP translation.

 

[rb2013]

The uniqueness of the USB flashdirve for audio is found in this quote:
 

Many low-cost MP3 players simply add extra software and a battery to a standard flash memory control microprocessor so it can also serve as a music playback decoder. Most of these players can also be used as a conventional flash drive, for storing files of any type. 

 

[rb2013]

Another issue with SD Cards is they can be corrupted quite easily - as happened to me recently with a 128GB Sandisk in my LG G4 android phone.  The micro SD card could not be reformated as much as I tried.
 
From wiki:

 

Risks of reformatting

Reformatting an SD card with a different file system, or even with the same one, may make the card slower, or shorten its lifespan. Some cards use wear leveling, in which frequently modified blocks are mapped to different portions of memory at different times, and some wear-leveling algorithms are designed for the access patterns typical of FAT12, FAT16 or FAT32.^[100] In addition, the preformatted file system may use a cluster size that matches the erase region of the physical memory on the card; reformatting may change the cluster size and make writes less efficient.

SD/SDHC/SDXC memory cards have a "Protected Area" on the card for the SD standard's security function; a standard formatter may erase it, causing problems if security is used. The SD Association provides freely-downloadable SD Formatter software to overcome these problems for Windows and Mac OS X.^[101] The SD Formatter does not format the "Protected Area", and the Association recommends the use of appropriate application software or SD-compatible device that provides SD security function to format the "Protected Area" in the memory card.

I have reformatted USB flashdrives without issue many times.
 
Another difference between SD cards and USB sticks is the speed - to get the 35MB/s speeds in a SD card you need a class UHS 3 card.:  These are quite expensive vs an equivalent USB stick.  Like this Lexar 256GB class 10/UHS3 for $125
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=1090741&gclid=CPnX5ZTqitECFQeUfgodbhMPug&Q=&ap=y&m=Y&c3api=1876%2C92051677682%2C&is=REG&A=details

By 2003, most USB flash drives had USB 2.0 connectivity, which has 480 Mbit/s as the transfer rate upper bound; after accounting for the protocol overhead that translates to a 35 MB/s effective throughput 

10 MB/s	Class 10 (C10)	Class 1 (U1)	Class 10 (V10)	Class 1 (A1)	Full HD (1080p) video recording and consecutive recording of HD stills (High Speed bus, Class C10), real-time broadcasts and large HD video files (UHS bus, Classes U1 and V10) Running applications from the memory card (Class A1 - minimum 1500 read / 500 write operations per second)
30 MB/s	-	Class 3 (U3)

 
 
One other thing to note - and this may lead to SQ difference in USB sticks, SSD drives and SD cards - is the different 'wear leveling' algorithm employed.  This will fundamentally effect the way data is written and read by the device.  Best to load music files sequentially - and not erase and write over too many times.  Device defragging is highly recommended if that has been done frequently.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wear_leveling

 

[Albrecht]

my main DAC is my modded R2R DAC60 

 
Oh right..... I totally forgot about that. I am going read up more on your DAC project: Thanks for reposting the link.
 
Experimenting with the 2 iFi's and the RUR has inspired me to play a little more. I still want to buy a Cardas link AC cable feeding the microRendu from the Uptone LPS-1.
 
On the basis of my much more limited experimentation, (especially yours), USB isolation, & USB bus noise reduction has several options & combinations. These first products that came out from the "high-end-audio" side, Regen, RUR, etc. have done a lot to "prove" just how crappy the USB bus is, and how important it is to "fix." Swenson had a lot of things to say about this that have proven "true" in my experience/mind. Of course the Startech/Icron/USB extenders have been around awhile and have breathed new life into the use of a multi-function computer for superior quality playback: as has already been discussed, both for Galvanic Isolation, - and getting the computer's noisy SMPS far away from the audio rack. Some folks might regard your use of two Ifi's and an RUR as "overkill," - but they obviously affect the SQ.
 
I am really with you regarding your comments about iFi products, and can corroborate your experiences.
 
As soon as I "recover" from the LPS-1 and it's Cardas cable, - I am going to grab the Startechs....
 
Have you seen these Cardas USB cables, or tried the short Curious cables?
 
http://www.sonore.us/adapter.html
 
Cheers, and once again, Thank you for all of your awesome work...

 

[rb2013]

Here is one sweet USB stick!
 
https://www.amazon.com/Kingston-DataTraveler-Predator-1TB-DTHXP30/dp/B00E65QM8O

Kingston DataTraveler HyperX Predator 1TB USB 3.0 Flash Drive

 
http://www.legitreviews.com/kingston-shows-what-is-inside-a-hyperx-predator-512gb-flash-drive_15054
 

 

 

[rb2013]

   
Oh right..... I totally forgot about that. I am going read up more on your DAC project: Thanks for reposting the link.
 
Experimenting with the 2 iFi's and the RUR has inspired me to play a little more. I still want to buy a Cardas link AC cable feeding the microRendu from the Uptone LPS-1.
 
On the basis of my much more limited experimentation, (especially yours), USB isolation, & USB bus noise reduction has several options & combinations. These first products that came out from the "high-end-audio" side, Regen, RUR, etc. have done a lot to "prove" just how crappy the USB bus is, and how important it is to "fix." Swenson had a lot of things to say about this that have proven "true" in my experience/mind. Of course the Startech/Icron/USB extenders have been around awhile and have breathed new life into the use of a multi-function computer for superior quality playback: as has already been discussed, both for Galvanic Isolation, - and getting the computer's noisy SMPS far away from the audio rack. Some folks might regard your use of two Ifi's and an RUR as "overkill," - but they obviously affect the SQ.
 
I am really with you regarding your comments about iFi products, and can corroborate your experiences.
 
As soon as I "recover" from the LPS-1 and it's Cardas cable, - I am going to grab the Startechs....
 
Have you seen these Cardas USB cables, or tried the short Curious cables?
 
http://www.sonore.us/adapter.html
 
Cheers, and once again, Thank you for all of your awesome work...

The APL is doing duty in the office system.
 
I agree with you completely, I know it's not pretty or a simple path, but it works.  I have tried to simplify it as much as possible - without degrading the SQ - this is as simple as I could get.
 
LPS-1 - How do you like it?  What changes did you hear?
 
I did try the 200mm Curious and in fact the full size 1M USB as well - I preferred the RUR (W4S Recovery 2.0) provided 6in USB cable.  And on the USB cable front the LH Labs 2G.
 
Cheers!

 

[Coilfield]

Hi to all,
Rob, your so through.  Thanks for all the info.
I have just finished some subjective testing;it may be of interest to some. I hope I'm not out of line, I'm a newbe.
 
Sata 2 ports run in ide mode;fresh install.
Os on ssd.
My ranking;
1) Ram drive 1.35v.
2) Sdhc card 18Mb write, gen. usb power with 3.3 V reg. in R/W device.
3) Hdd spinning drive.
 
Ram drive sounds fast and detailed.
Sd card sounds lean with lower noise floor.
Spinning disk had stronger bass.
 
My preferred players;
1) Jplay; hibernate, (expensive).
2) Bug head emperor; black screen, (free).
3) Cplay/cics, Fidelizer, (free).
4) JRiver; Kernel streaming.
 
All are very good and I have used them as tuning tools, to suit my constantly changing system.  Sort of like swaping tubes.
The greatest difference for me has been reducing the background processes from 50 to 15. Less jitter.  The first 3 players run in lock-up mode. Kernel streaming has some nice tone.

 

[rb2013]

  Hi to all,
Rob, your so through.  Thanks for all the info.
I have just finished some subjective testing;it may be of interest to some. I hope I'm not out of line, I'm a newbe.
 
Sata 2 ports run in ide mode;fresh install.
Os on ssd.
My ranking;
1) Ram drive 1.35v.
2) Sdhc card 18Mb write, gen. usb power with 3.3 V reg. in R/W device.
3) Hdd spinning drive.
 
Ram drive sounds fast and detailed.
Sd card sounds lean with lower noise floor.
Spinning disk had stronger bass.
 
My preferred players;
1) Jplay; hibernate, (expensive).
2) Bug head emperor; black screen, (free).
3) Cplay/cics, Fidelizer, (free).
4) JRiver; Kernel streaming.
 
All are very good and I have used them as tuning tools, to suit my constantly changing system.  Sort of like swaping tubes.
The greatest difference for me has been reducing the background processes from 50 to 15. Less jitter.  The first 3 players run in lock-up mode. Kernel streaming has some nice tone.

Good info - what OS and system?  As I mentioned I considered running the OS from one of the USB sticks in the Startech.  This goes way beyond the three modes you mention.  As it would then be galvanically isolated from the PC. Powered in very low noise - AC line isolated and filtered - low noise LPS envirnoment.
 
But also potentially benefiting from the USB to TCPIP packet reconstruction.
 
As I mentioned I did hear a small improvement going from a WD Black HDD to a PNY 128 SSD with a El Fidelity SATA filter (this acts as a power noise filter) using a low noise high PSRR SeaSonic fanless PC PS.
 
I would try the HQ Player if you are open to any music player.  http://www.signalyst.com
 
Definitely upgrade to the Pro version of Fidelizer - major upgrade in SQ over the free version - I'd say 2X-3X the improvement from the HDD to SDD improvement.
 
Run in Purist mode for best results.
 
Cheers!

 

[Coilfield]

 HQ Player is to pricey for me, given the ever changing teck. I did try it; loved the sound, but not the interface.
 
Thanks for the input on Fidelizer pro.  I just finished assembling the parts for a 31 driver dipole line array, 1st order 3 way, pio caps.  So now I'm learning and contemplating the path after assembly,(3 months), maple and tools are expensive.
 
I was able to get in the 3 power filters and OCC cables for the digital stuff.  As per your rec.; I'm very happy.  I've really enjoyed your references to Lps, caps and filters as well.
 
Last year I ran an over clocked i5 with several fans.  I eliminated the fans, under-clocked the cpu and enjoyed that more.
I currently use a S.O.C.; Asrock j1900, baytrail 10 watt. max.

Everything in Bios disabled, including speed step.
Dual boot; Server 2012 with 15 processes and win 7 with 30 processes.  Cplay/ cics and Fidelizer; ram drive for storage.
Seasonic psu, < 5mv noise, but still SM and a fan.
AC line isolation and filtering - low noise LPS  is the way to go. I also had a nice experience with TCPIP packet checking on a switch with cat 6 cables.
 
X:\Bryan Ferry-Bête Noire through phones right now.
Listening to a bunch of his music lately.
 
Frank

 

[Coilfield]

Music switch to Journey 1975.  Do you know this one?
 
Frank

 

[rb2013]

Cool Video:
 
Use a bunch of USB Flash drives in a RAID array.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dougISKs2vQ

 

[rb2013]

   HQ Player is to pricey for me, given the ever changing teck. I did try it; loved the sound, but not the interface.
 
Thanks for the input on Fidelizer pro.  I just finished assembling the parts for a 31 driver dipole line array, 1st order 3 way, pio caps.  So now I'm learning and contemplating the path after assembly,(3 months), maple and tools are expensive.
 
I was able to get in the 3 power filters and OCC cables for the digital stuff.  As per your rec.; I'm very happy.  I've really enjoyed your references to Lps, caps and filters as well.
 
Last year I ran an over clocked i5 with several fans.  I eliminated the fans, under-clocked the cpu and enjoyed that more.
I currently use a S.O.C.; Asrock j1900, baytrail 10 watt. max.

Everything in Bios disabled, including speed step.
Dual boot; Server 2012 with 15 processes and win 7 with 30 processes.  Cplay/ cics and Fidelizer; ram drive for storage.
Seasonic psu, < 5mv noise, but still SM and a fan.
AC line isolation and filtering - low noise LPS  is the way to go. I also had a nice experience with TCPIP packet checking on a switch with cat 6 cables.
 
X:\Bryan Ferry-Bête Noire through phones right now.
Listening to a bunch of his music lately.
 
Frank

Nice Frank.  I would give Fid Pro a try  - only $59. 
 
http://www.fidelizer-audio.com/fidelizer-upgrade-program/
 
I like Bryan Ferry - last night I went gritty - Robin Trower - 'Bridge of Sighs'  Whoa!  Power Guitar - amazing production - so musical and smooth.  Tough on this recording.
 
Another sea change musical display - best I have heard this by far.
 
Listened to the track 'In This Place' a dozen times - the first time almost brought me to tears.  So FREAKING awesome this new SQ!  42 yr old album - Redbook file ridiculous at how good it sounded.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIVwPuwiHa4

 

[rb2013]

  Music switch to Journey 1975.  Do you know this one?
 
Frank

Oh yes - been in that '70s mood lately.  Boston, Journey, Bad Company, AC/DC tonight

 

[Coilfield]

Robin Trower - 'Bridge of Sighs'  played a couple of weeks ago.  Fantastic album.
Due for a replay over the holidays.
Bad Company-Burning Sky is also on my replay list, as is Jethro Tull in Moscow.
 
Frank