USB Strikes Back! Watch out AOIP - USB/Ethernet Chain beats All (at least for me)

[rb2013]

Interested in the F1 having cleaner power.As far i know there are no inlet for power in F1 ( original casing)unless you customize it.

Will the iDefender from ifi do the same job? Basically its cutting off the supply from your source's power and injecting new cleaner 5V power if you feed it with better dedicated LPS.
At the same, the idefender cutting off ground loops.
Im interested in the pro3z too, its has built in inlet for power. Might be different clocks between them.

The F-1 can be fed with cleaner power - not from the PC USB by several methods.  The Recovery and Regen have separate ext power ports - then feed the power through to the F-1 by their UBS outputs.  You can use a split USB cable to do the same.
 
 
The iDefender, can do that and is a bit different then the USB 2.0/3.0 boxes, in that it attempts to sever the USB ground from the PC, hard to do, this is referred to as 'galvanic isolation'  The Intona does this and of course the inherent GI of Ethernet give the Startech GI.
http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-idefender3-0/
 

 

	1. Breaks noisy ground-loops. Significantly reduces system noise floor and makes for better dynamic contrast, warmth and resolution 2. Disconnects the USB Power from the PC and replaces it with a clean external power (optional iPower* 5V for ultra low noise) 3. USB3.0 port technology – most advanced and highest USB specification

[td=colspan:2]The iDefender3.0® protects against the common problems of ground loop noise and noisy USB power:[/td]

Note they don't mention galvanic isolation - just USB ground loops.  I assume they are referencing the same thing - maybe not.  Given iFi's perchant for 'Extreme' marketing - funny they didn't have 'GALVANIC ISOLATION' in 26pt print blasted across the top of their iDefender page.
For just a separate power feed any of the iUSB 2.0's or 3.0's do that. 
 
The Pro3z can take power from the ext port or the USB - it has a switch.  The clocks remain the same - NDK -SD clocks. 
 
Here is a comparison of the CCHD-975 vs the NDK SD's. Note the NDK is better below approx 2.5Khz - the Crystek from 2.5Khz to 1Mhz

 
   

 

[j3294]

 
That will work - but I'd recommend powering the F-1 by a separate external LPS.  Even just a inexpensive TeraDak X1/X2
 
 
Good luck

Hi rb2013, thanks for the very interesting write up.
Would a SOtM sms-200 replacing a pc be a cheaper and more optimised option?

 

[slex]

The F-1 can be fed with cleaner power - not from the PC USB by several methods.  The Recovery and Regen have separate ext power ports - then feed the power through to the F-1 by their UBS outputs.  You can use a split USB cable to do the same.

Im intriqued by describtion of iDefender especially this part:


"With 12-Element Array on the output and 6-Element Array technology on the input, there is next to no noise ‘supplied’ to downstream devices and ‘leaked’ back out to nearby components."

Ok seem i will be picking 1 up along with spdif ipurifier before 2017. Hope both turns up well.



The iDefender, can do that and is a bit different then the USB 2.0/3.0 boxes, in that it attempts to sever the USB ground from the PC, hard to do, this is referred to as 'galvanic isolation'  The Intona does this and of course the inherent GI of Ethernet give the Startech GI.
http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-idefender3-0/

Note they don't mention galvanic isolation - just USB ground loops.  I assume they are referencing the same thing - maybe not.  Given iFi's perchant for 'Extreme' marketing - funny they didn't have 'GALVANIC ISOLATION' in 26pt print blasted across the top of their iDefender page.
For just a separate power feed any of the iUSB 2.0's or 3.0's do that. 

The Pro3z can take power from the ext port or the USB - it has a switch.  The clocks remain the same - NDK -SD clocks. 

 

[rb2013]

Hi rb2013, thanks for the very interesting write up.
Would a SOtM sms-200 replacing a pc be a cheaper and more optimised option?

Well I highly doubt it. There is the lack of GI, and separate LPS's, and it's UPnP.

 

[rb2013]

Im intriqued by describtion of iDefender especially this part:

"With 12-Element Array on the output and 6-Element Array technology on the input, there is next to no noise ‘supplied’ to downstream devices and ‘leaked’ back out to nearby components."
Ok seem i will be picking 1 up along with spdif ipurifier before 2017. Hope both turns up well.

Well it would be great if this $49 does what a $300 Intona/JCAT does.
 
I have owned many iFi products: iPur, iPur2, DC iPur, 3 different voltages iPowers, iSPDIF, iUSB 2.0, Micro iDAC2
 
Most of these where not good.  The iDAC2 was worse then mediocre as a DDC, DAC and HP amp.  Most were just mediocre and way overhyped.  I felt the iSPDIF actually made the SQ worse from the F-1.  In the past I had good success with the W4S Remedy and Mutec MC-3+ USB as SPDIF reclockers.  The iPowers are OK for the money - but as SMPS inject alot of noise back into the AC mains - which I felt degraded the SQ. 

The first iPur was a nothing burger - the 2nd version, the iPur2 - much, much better and I do like.  DC iPur is pretty good - on higher noise PS's
 
Bottom line with iFi it's hit or miss.  I do see that the new iDefender uses that microUSB power port like the iSPDIF which means your are almost forced to use their special plug iPower.
 
Good luck

 

[TJHUB]

  Thanks for the post and kind kudos.  Someone has offered to send their Pro3z to me to try versus the F-1 so that should be interesting.
 
I also ordered this i2s to SPDIF WM8084 board to 'fix' my friends F-1 - I will power it with a LT3042 LPS.
So that will be interesting as well.
 
Not that I'm in any hurry to change this amazing sounding chain.  But if someone want so to send me an easy plug and play device - I will try it for the community and post my feedback.
 
I had the Pro3a and much prefered the F-1.  The key on the F-1 is to 'optimize' it with my custom chain.
 
So it would be interesting to see how the Pro3z fares with the Recovery, iPur2, Startech, etc...
 
I had the PPA V2 and it was good - needed an external LPS.  But the Startech is in a whole other realm.  And I sold the PPA as it just was not needed.  I don't think it would do any harm - but if you were to power it with a LPS - that would bring the LPS count to FOUR! 
 
I totally agree on running the OS on a SSD - the PNY 128GB i bought was $39 (a 256GB is $59) - a total no brainer.
 
Now on the issue of Win Server 2012 vs Win 10 - I don;t know.  Win server 2012 is not cheap.  And to compare the two is just not worth it for me.
 
On the question of AO vs Fidel - well I don't know again.  But might be worth exploring down the road.  $129 is not cheap - but it is good for 5 installs so I may give it a whirl after doing some further research.
http://www.highend-audiopc.com/audiophile-optimizer
 
 
I do like this - it seems WIN10 makes the cut:
 

 
I look forward to your thoughts on the Pro3z vs. F-1, but there presentations are fairly different.  I'm certain if the F-1 works well for you, you likely won't like the Pro3z with your current setup.  
 
I know Window Sever 2012 is not cheap, but there are some who have compared Windows 10 to Windows Sever 2012 in Core mode, and everyone seems to find 2012 better (and they probable should).  I'm certain Windows 10 is great, and certainly better than previous Windows OS's, but AO is a real gem and shouldn't be overlooked.  Phil has really done an amazing job with it.
 
I'm not crapping on Fidelizer as I used to use it in the past.  It too is a great program, but I just can't seem to get it to improve on anything I have in place now.  I wish it would as others seem to get benefits with it even from setups very similar to mine.
 
I used to be a fan of Foobar2000.  In fact, it's still installed on my music PC.  As such, I decided to try it again this morning.  I tried running with direct output to the XMOS driver and JPLAY 6.2.  For me, output to JPLAY 6.2 is still cleaner and more realistic sounding.  But switching back to JPLAY Streamer shows an amazing improvement over anything I was able to get from Foobar2000.  It's a bummer for me as I love MonkeyMote to control Foobar2000.  I like Bubble DS Next controlling JPLAY Streamer, but MonkeyMote is nicer.
 
I'm not certain where to go next.  I suppose my next move will be to try the StarTech when I get the funds in place.

 

[slex]

I wont be using reclocker in this chain like ipurifier remedy regen etc. Just concentrating of improving power supply chain to F1 then finding the right interconnect cable for linking up.

Won't be using ipower for them. It was the weakest link on my other rig.

 

[rb2013]

   
I look forward to your thoughts on the Pro3z vs. F-1, but there presentations are fairly different.  I'm certain if the F-1 works well for you, you likely won't like the Pro3z with your current setup.  
 
I know Window Sever 2012 is not cheap, but there are some who have compared Windows 10 to Windows Sever 2012 in Core mode, and everyone seems to find 2012 better (and they probable should).  I'm certain Windows 10 is great, and certainly better than previous Windows OS's, but AO is a real gem and shouldn't be overlooked.  Phil has really done an amazing job with it.
 
I'm not crapping on Fidelizer as I used to use it in the past.  It too is a great program, but I just can't seem to get it to improve on anything I have in place now.  I wish it would as others seem to get benefits with it even from setups very similar to mine.
 
I used to be a fan of Foobar2000.  In fact, it's still installed on my music PC.  As such, I decided to try it again this morning.  I tried running with direct output to the XMOS driver and JPLAY 6.2.  For me, output to JPLAY 6.2 is still cleaner and more realistic sounding.  But switching back to JPLAY Streamer shows an amazing improvement over anything I was able to get from Foobar2000.  It's a bummer for me as I love MonkeyMote to control Foobar2000.  I like Bubble DS Next controlling JPLAY Streamer, but MonkeyMote is nicer.
 
I'm not certain where to go next.  I suppose my next move will be to try the StarTech when I get the funds in place.

Well as I've said - I'm not changing music players - so Foobar2K is it for me.  You should try the SoX upsampler with Foobar - it's night and day better.  I understand JRMC just added SoX.  Now with my music files running from the USB stick on the REX really out of this world superb!
 
Staying with WIN10 for now - I'm sure WIN3000 is already in the works.  I wonder if Fidel doesn't work as well on WIN Server as opposed to WIN10?
 

I wont be using reclocker in this chain like ipurifier remedy regen etc. Just concentrating of improving power supply chain to F1 then finding the right interconnect cable for linking up.

Won't be using ipower for them. It was the weakest link on my other rig.

 

[TJHUB]

  Well as I've said - I'm not changing music players - so Foobar2K is it for me.  You should try the SoX upsampler with Foobar - it's night and day better.  I understand JRMC just added SoX.  Now with my music files running from the USB stick on the REX really out of this world superb!
 
Staying with WIN10 for now - I'm sure WIN3000 is already in the works.  I wonder if Fidel doesn't work as well on WIN Server as opposed to WIN10?
 

 
What do you upsample to?  I will look into it.

 

[rb2013]

I wont be using reclocker in this chain like ipurifier remedy regen etc. Just concentrating of improving power supply chain to F1 then finding the right interconnect cable for linking up.

Won't be using ipower for them. It was the weakest link on my other rig.

I agree on the ipower.  I ran the iSPDIF for 100 hours - maybe that wasn't enough some have reported it needs 200+ to burnin

 

[rb2013]

   
What do you upsample to?  I will look into it.

On my modded R2R DAC60  96k, on my APL 192k.  I set 'Quality' to High, Passband to 95%, Phase Response to 0, Allow Aliasing.
 
I felt the Pro3a was brighter then the F-1 - the F-1 with more tonal density.
 
Here is a picture of the PRo3a:
 
 

Haven't seen a board photo of the Pro3z yet.  Any chance you could post one?

 

[slex]

I agree on the ipower.  I ran the iSPDIF for 100 hours - maybe that wasn't enough some have reported it needs 200+ to burnin

Yes i channel those unused ipower to non audio equipment like modem routet and TV box.

Regarding the pro3Z , is there an adapter to except micro USB power, i was looking into it to link up my iUSB on the other rig.

 

[Tboooe]

@rb2013 I apologize if you covered this already, but did you consider using the fiber Icron usb extenders?  

 

[rb2013]

Yes i channel those unused ipower to non audio equipment like modem routet and TV box.

Regarding the pro3Z , is there an adapter to except micro USB power, i was looking into it to link up my iUSB on the other rig.

Not that I'm aware of.

 

[rb2013]

@rb2013
 I apologize if you covered this already, but did you consider using the fiber Icron usb extenders?  

No, but tried a fiber Ethernet SMC between the two Startech boxes with little effect.