[Zenvota]

Are there any measurements proving that these devices make a measurable difference?

I have seen one where some of these devices like the IFI or the Uptone reduced the noise floor on the USB slightly, but we are talking about -130db instead of -120db... So I don't think this would make any audible difference as the 120db was already far below any hearing levels... If it was something like -60db to -140db then yes that would be a big difference... but -120db to -130db not so much!

Unless you are having obvious problems with noise... Is there any proof these make an audible difference?

Maybe they do improve the sound, I don't know... Certainly they are interesting... But I have not seen any measurements confirming they do much?

Well think about it, you're talking about noise and jitter tests in reference to increased detail, soundstaging, and imaging through improved signal integrity and timing. A 12khz fft isnt going to show any of that, just like it isnt going to show the lack of information being rendered by slower tube amps compared to faster transistor amps, that information is lost forever in the slower amplifiers. Whats going to prove an audible difference? Actually being audible when listening. How could you actually see it? idk... maybe rerecord the output and analyse the millions of samples bit for bit.

 

[nicholars]

Well think about it, you're talking about noise and jitter tests in reference to increased detail, soundstaging, and imaging through improved signal integrity and timing. A 12khz fft isnt going to show any of that, just like it isnt going to show the lack of information being rendered by slower tube amps compared to faster transistor amps, that information is lost forever in the slower amplifiers. Whats going to prove an audible difference? Actually being audible when listening. How could you actually see it? idk... maybe rerecord the output and analyse the millions of samples bit for bit.

Hm but wouldn't the normal measurements of sound quality be enough to show whether it makes a difference or not, for example the sort of measurements you get on audiosciencereview or archimago??

I am obviously interested in improving the sound where possible, but I am not sure this is actually a problem that needs fixing, I have not seen any measurements which show any difference in the sound quality... Lets say you have a modern PC and a decent USB cable... Do you actually need any of these USB devices? Are there any measurements showing improvement?

 

[Zenvota]

Hm but wouldn't the normal measurements of sound quality be enough to show whether it makes a difference or not, for example the sort of measurements you get on audiosciencereview or archimago??

I am obviously interested in improving the sound where possible, but I am not sure this is actually a problem that needs fixing, I have not seen any measurements which show any difference in the sound quality... Lets say you have a modern PC and a decent USB cable... Do you actually need any of these USB devices? Are there any measurements showing improvement?

Like this one? (・。・)

 

[Pepito]

Hm but wouldn't the normal measurements of sound quality be enough to show whether it makes a difference or not, for example the sort of measurements you get on audiosciencereview or archimago??

I am obviously interested in improving the sound where possible, but I am not sure this is actually a problem that needs fixing, I have not seen any measurements which show any difference in the sound quality... Lets say you have a modern PC and a decent USB cable... Do you actually need any of these USB devices? Are there any measurements showing improvement?

I understand your need for measurements, but there is nothing out there that is a better measurement than our own ears YMMV

 

[nicholars]

That is a good improvement, but isn't that because the Modi has not great USB in the first place?

Mm yes these do look interesting but not sure how much difference they will make if your DAC already has good USB.

 

[nicholars]

Quote from that review :

"Despite so many defenders of this class of products, measurements and objective analysis of the devices lends to no useable. High performance DACs are designed to sound and measure excellently without such tweaks (after all, if there was something to these devices, they would include them in the DACs themselves at the prices they are charging us)."

"My opinion of hearing improvements from users is simple: when you test things you tend to focus more and with that, you hear details that were always there but you did not note them. Such difference can be quite convincing but unfortunately is not real. The soundwaves out of the box do not need to change to hear such differences."

 

[Zenvota]

Quote from that review :

"Despite so many defenders of this class of products, measurements and objective analysis of the devices lends to no useable. High performance DACs are designed to sound and measure excellently without such tweaks (after all, if there was something to these devices, they would include them in the DACs themselves at the prices they are charging us)."

"My opinion of hearing improvements from users is simple: when you test things you tend to focus more and with that, you hear details that were always there but you did not note them. Such difference can be quite convincing but unfortunately is not real. The soundwaves out of the box do not need to change to hear such differences."

All of my testing and comparing has been done running extremely fast distorted death and black metal and lossless 7.1 action movie scenes through Out of Your Head, a real time binaural renderer using measured room impulse responses of loudspeaker systems taken with a Smyth Realiser A8. This type of listening test makes audible differences of components easily identifiable, purely through rendering the reflections of the measured rooms more accurately and completely and with better timing. All things that wouldnt show up on a jitter test.

Dacs didnt always include asynchronous usb, they didnt always include separate power for the usb to i2s conversion, they didnt always include high speed galvanic isolation, and i wouldnt be suprised if they started including hub chips before the usb receiver in the near future.

Take the topaz line noise isolators into consideration, are dac makers really going to include a $600 giant isolation transformer in their design? or are they going to let the user include that in their system on their own?

 

[nicholars]

I don't know you could be right, but just looking for some objective evidence that they improve the sound... Maybe it does make a difference in your system I have no idea!

 

[Pepito]

I don't know you could be right, but just looking for some objective evidence that they improve the sound... Maybe it does make a difference in your system I have no idea!

Just get a unit and return it if you don't hear a difference. I'm certainly keeping mine however...

 

[OctavianH]

Lets say you have a modern PC and a decent USB cable... Do you actually need any of these USB devices? Are there any measurements showing improvement?

I have a modern PC: i7 4790K overclocked a 4.5GHz all cores, 32GB RAM, ASUS Z97-DELUXE motherboard. I have also a decent USB cable: QED Reference USB.
The answer is definitely YES. A modern PC was designed for performance and not audio. The power supplies used in PC are very noisy, also the USB ports on the motherboards.
I have seen not subtle improvements adding ISO Regen to the chain, however I did not started to measure stuff, just listen.

That is a good improvement, but isn't that because the Modi has not great USB in the first place?

Mm yes these do look interesting but not sure how much difference they will make if your DAC already has good USB.

I use here Chord Qutest with galvanic isolation on the USB input, and yes there are differences.

PS. The Uptone products are not easy to find or very expensive in Europe. I could not find a decently priced LPS1.2, but I have found a LPS for the LPS.

https://mcru.co.uk/product/regulate...r-uptone-audio-ultracap-lps-1/?v=79cba1185463

 

[motberg]

I don't know you could be right, but just looking for some objective evidence that they improve the sound... Maybe it does make a difference in your system I have no idea!

https://pro.intona.eu/en/support/answer/1233

My guess is though, that if you are convinced that technically such devices cannot help (despite probably thousands of online reviews), you may not be able to hear any differences anyways...
In my experience , USB isolation, via the Intona or Singxer UIP-1, has been beneficial... and both those devices work rock-solid in my setup.

 

[nicholars]

https://pro.intona.eu/en/support/answer/1233

My guess is though, that if you are convinced that technically such devices cannot help (despite probably thousands of online reviews), you may not be able to hear any differences anyways...
In my experience , USB isolation, via the Intona or Singxer UIP-1, has been beneficial... and both those devices work rock-solid in my setup.

No I would certainly notice if it was an improvement... but also there is a lot of "expectation bias" in audio... So was just looking to see if any actual measurements showing improvements...

Thing is with that link though, yes there is an improvement, but the first graph is already below audible levels... I don't know maybe I will try one for myself at some point just make sure it has a good return policy.

 

[Superdad]

I don't know maybe I will try one for myself at some point just make sure it has a good return policy.

Yep, 30-day money-back satisfaction guarantee. No questions asked, no restock fee, no forms to fill out. Only thing that gets lost if you return it is the modest original postage cost ($9 in USA, $25 Canada, and $34 rest-of-world)—and your own cost of postage to return.
We sell close to 1,000 units per year and last year less than 10 people returned their ISO REGEN.

 

[nicholars]

Well that is definitely a good ratio of returns!

 

[Big Yoshi]

Does anyone know if it is possible to borrow one to try in my own system in advanced? I believe many people trust their ears more.