[iriverdude]

Once you get larger speakers you cannot ignore speaker placement.

 

[NeilF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iriverdude /img/forum/go_quote.gif Once you get larger speakers you cannot ignore speaker placement.

I wouldn't... But the question is null and void if the opinion is adding such speakers to my amp will not improve the sound...

It's a logical progression really:-
1) Will better speakers improve sound? If no (stop), if yes (contiue)
2) Do you need to move the speakers? If no (continue), if yes (can you move them where required)
3) Buy speakers

If (1) is a 'no' nothing else is of importance...

I've had no experience of adding 'better' speakers to a low end amp, so have no idea if it's worthwhile or not... Hence advice being so useful...

 

[iriverdude]

1) Yes
2) Yes

 

[NeilF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iriverdude /img/forum/go_quote.gif 1) Yes 2) Yes

Aha, so there some light at the end of my spend-some-money-tunnel then

Of course, interesting some people have thusfar said the opposite...


So if I go off, and look for some non-rear-ported bookshelf speakers, whose center speaker is less than 165mm high, and take it from there...

If I get just the LR speakers and they can fit in my ideal locations (ie: where the existing ones are) then great. If not then I can move/stand them as necessary.

If then the center speaker sounds out of place I can get the matching center speaker... However I really cannot see it living anywhere other there where the current one is. So I'm guessing if there is a 'boom' issue with it I either live with it, or possibly - can't recall - see if there's something in the amp that can cut off the lower frequencies. (I don't think there is... I think it's an all or nothing setting across all speakers).


I guess the most important thing to come out of this thread is the fact that I might need to consider replacing the center as a result of changing the front L&R... Hadn't considered that at all!


Any particular makes/models come to mind?

 

[iriverdude]

I did not say it's k to leave them where they are now. Do not cram a new center and right speaker where they are now.

Your av amp has crossover probably just small/large. I'd leave them on small.

 

[NeilF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iriverdude /img/forum/go_quote.gif I did not say it's k to leave them where they are now. Do not cram a new center and right speaker where they are now.

I'd try them where they are now, and in other places - Just like I did (carefully) with my current setup... If they can go in aesthetic places without too much of a compromise, then great. If not, then I'd move them...

 

[driftingbunnies]

To me, they don't look aesthetic at all in those places but I guess they do to you. New speakers will always sound better. The degree to how much better depends on the rest of your equipment. It's hard to know exactly which amp you have, but looking at the picture it doesn't look like something that might be able to power some maggies. Just find a place where you can bring speakers back and try them out. There's not really a point to keep going with this thread until you start taking action. Go to an audio store and just find one that has a return policy so you can grab a pair of their cheapest speakers and see if location does really matter to your ears. Then maybe we should be talking about brands and stuff. Even then, we have other threads already discussing those topics.

 

[NeilF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by driftingbunnies /img/forum/go_quote.gif To me, they don't look aesthetic at all in those places but I guess they do to you.

LOL - The ideal aesthetic position would be so you couldn't see them at all...

The thing for me is they stand out as little as possible, without compromising the sound (much).

For example, as I said earlier, I tried the center speaker up on the TV unit and it made no difference and looked terrible, so down it went, tucked away...

Quote:

Originally Posted by driftingbunnies /img/forum/go_quote.gif New speakers will always sound better. The degree to how much better depends on the rest of your equipment. It's hard to know exactly which amp you have, but looking at the picture it doesn't look like something that might be able to power some maggies. Just find a place where you can bring speakers back and try them out. There's not really a point to keep going with this thread until you start taking action. Go to an audio store and just find one that has a return policy so you can grab a pair of their cheapest speakers and see if location does really matter to your ears. Then maybe we should be talking about brands and stuff. Even then, we have other threads already discussing those topics.

The amp is listed in the OP - Yamaha RX-V461.

I remember a while back I plugged in a big old pair of Mission speakers, and I actually thought at the time they didn't sound as clear/crisp... But they were old, so probably not a good test/comparison...

 

[driftingbunnies]

I'm sure you can still milk that yamaha a bit more then. Like i said, just go see if any audio dealers will let you take a pair home to listen for a day and see what you think. I was surprised how much clearer my titans were after I had them on stands and after they've been placed further away from my tv. They were cramped before but now it seems like they can breathe. In my experience position matters. Just try focusing your speakers to pinpoint one spot and sit there. Maybe you'll notice a difference. Oh and try playing music instead of watching a movie.

 

[Alai]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilF /img/forum/go_quote.gif Avant 902i / Avant 900i / Reviews / Mordaunt Short

Interesting. I wonder if a local audio shop has any of these I can demo...

Honestly, I distrust professional reviews completely and utterly in the audio world (actually with most things, but audio in particular). That's why I surf audio forums rather than audio publications so that I can get personal experiences and opinions that don't have monetary motivation. Audio reviews almost NEVER say negative things about the products they review. This includes headphones, speakers, amps, etc. If the product is even remotely good, the negatives are basically ignored.

 

[NeilF]

Interesting development...

Managed to find someone who had the same Mordaunt Short Avant Premiere speakers (302 front/rear, 304 center, 308 woofer) as I currently do. They contacted Peter Tyson asking could they just upgrade their their front 302s to 902i's without the 304 sounding out of place.

Peter Tyson said they were still a good match, so he upgraded and said there was a good improvement from the front LR speakers, and the 304 still sounds in keeping.

Out of interest, he's also going to try pushing the 902i's right up against the wall to see if this has any adverse effect...

ps: His amp, although a higher spec, is also a Yamaha

 

[driftingbunnies]

The reasons to upgrade the center along with your fronts is so that the timbre and tones match throughout your system. If you make your fronts overpower the center, it won't make too much of a difference if you mismatch. If that was the case however, you might as well get rid of the center. I feel like once you get to a certain level, the center will sound "ok" but if you were serious about audio like iriverdude, you might be willing to drop 1k+ for a center.

Personally I have a matching paradigm center with my HT system and it blends perfectly. I have yet to hear a different center in my system but I can just imagine trying to pair my onix with my paradigm. The onix has much more detail and rounded tones comparatively. I wouldn't even need to hook up my center if I were to use my Onix for HT rather than my paradigms.

Amps will always "work". however, it might be hindering the potential of your speakers. So if you don''t get a new amp, your new speakers will play just fine.

 

[NeilF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by driftingbunnies /img/forum/go_quote.gif The reasons to upgrade the center along with your fronts is so that the timbre and tones match throughout your system. If you make your fronts overpower the center, it won't make too much of a difference if you mismatch. If that was the case however, you might as well get rid of the center. I feel like once you get to a certain level, the center will sound "ok" but if you were serious about audio like iriverdude, you might be willing to drop 1k+ for a center. Personally I have a matching paradigm center with my HT system and it blends perfectly. I have yet to hear a different center in my system but I can just imagine trying to pair my onix with my paradigm. The onix has much more detail and rounded tones comparatively. I wouldn't even need to hook up my center if I were to use my Onix for HT rather than my paradigms. Amps will always "work". however, it might be hindering the potential of your speakers. So if you don''t get a new amp, your new speakers will play just fine.

How could the fronts 'overpower' the center? Surely the only thing being talked about here is audio quality, not volume?

I would image the concern would be if the fronts produced a far different tonal sound/qhality, which was out of place/character with the center one?

Additionally the center is not used for listening to music (usually), and then in surround typically the center is used for slight different audio than the fronts (eg: dialog & center fill in?).

 

[driftingbunnies]

Basically. I'm not talking about volume, but things like detail, tonal sound, timbre. For example, if i'm playing an acoustic song through my onix, I get a more round tonal balance and a more relaxed treble. My paradigm would have a slightly higher treble energy and not as round tones. Now with my paradigm center, the treble would match and everything would be dandy. However if I used my onix, the sound of the guitar might be conflicting. The tonal balance might be more prevalent during some parts of the song the treble might be too much in others. If your speakers aren't very high quality it might not make much of a difference since there isn't much detail to start with.

 

[iriverdude]

^ From someone with a low end center, once you move up the line you'll do a 180. A higher end center is about sounding better, with wider frequency response, more natural, able to play louder, and sounding great whilst going loud. You'd think a matching £200 center be fine, but trust me when you hear a higher quality center you won't bother with that £200 speaker anymore.

A center is used for music, do you watch any concert DVD's? Multi-channel DTS, DVD-Audio or SACD? The center actually does more in a home theatre than the left & rights. For one thing most speech comes from that speaker, so is critical.

I cannot understand why you're not interested in sound quality, after all if you are why are you upgrading left & rights? Why then ignore the center?