[NeilF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by driftingbunnies /img/forum/go_quote.gif Something quick and simple would be to spend about 250 on a pair of wharfedales and look for a vintage receiver or maybe a stereo HK receiver. I personally would look around the classified sections around you to see what people are selling. For my first setup, I went to go get a cheap onkyo receiver for ~160 and a pair of paradigm titans and a paradigm center for ~150. You could always keep your sub you have now but I would recommend to upgrade it if you ever get the chance. Obviously you might not get the same deals as me since the titans and a center for 150 is a really good deal. However, if you budget around ~150 for a vintage receiver (got my pioneer sx 838 for 175 which i powers much better than the onkyo) and then use the rest for speakers, I'd be very surprised if it doesn't improve what you have now. All my numbers are in USD so that should mean you might be able to get more for your money than i did.

Our requirements differ straight away then...

I wanted surround sound (for films etc) and to listen to music too. Ontop of this I did not want multiple amps and multiple speakers. Yes an AV amp compromises audio/music listening, but I'm willing to suffer that for a simple/less complicated/less cluttered life

(My 15yr old bi-amp Sony stereo which now lives in my study blows my AV system out of the water when it comes to music)

 

[driftingbunnies]

If you want surround, then how is that a simple/less complicated/less cluttered life? You also don't want multiple speakers. From what I remember, surround sound requires multiple speakers. You are contradicting yourself left and right. Until you know what you want to accomplish, it will be difficult to make any recommendation.

 

[iriverdude]

^ A AV amp will do the job of stereo and surround, it's a compromise it won't do stereo so good. But it's still easier, and cheaper than going seperates. I think if your wife saw my home theatre she'd have a heart attack. Although as drifting bunnies said av needs more speakers, yet you said you don't want extra speakers. Surely you meant extra components? (if you want great hifi and av you'd use seperate stereo integrated amplifier for stereo channels then a av pre-amp plus poweramps for the remaining)

I think your upgrades is limited being that it's the problem of family room...ideally want a bigger screen, higher quality speakers, higher quality sub, higher quality amp. But you can't.

You probably can't tell the difference between center in that cubby is because it's so bass shy. Once you buy larger speakers you will need to put them on stands.

If kids are a problem could mount largers speakers to the wall.

 

[NeilF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by driftingbunnies /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you want surround, then how is that a simple/less complicated/less cluttered life? You also don't want multiple speakers. From what I remember, surround sound requires multiple speakers. You are contradicting yourself left and right. Until you know what you want to accomplish, it will be difficult to make any recommendation.

I'm sure you really are very confused by my requirements... No honestly... And you're not just playing the fool at all...

Anyway... In an ideal setup I'd have what I used to have, a dedicated system/amp/speakers for audio, and a dedicated system/amp/speakers for surround.

Quite simply now though, I'd like an easy life with just one amp and 5.1 speakers. I don't want multiple devices to worry about. That's why currently, I have one amp and 5.1 speakers and want it to stay that way.

 

[driftingbunnies]

So basically you want an all in one home theater in a box? I'm sure there are plenty of those. However, the only AV receivers that I trust to also be musical would be the marantz, pioneer elite, or adcom receiver they came out with. Other than that, one amp and 5.1 speakers for your tv would sound disgustingly bad if you connected your headphone out into an integrated amp. Plus to find a good quality 5.1 integrated amp will be difficult too.

So to sum up, no, those speakers that you are looking at are not worth it right now. Wait until you're serious about upgrading and get one of the higher quality AV receivers I mentioned up there before asking about speakers again.

what I don't understand is that I said you could get a cheap onkyo receiver which does do 5.1 yet you said your requirements are different.

 

[iriverdude]

He's already got a (I presume rears as well) 5.1 system with av amplifier. A home theatre in a box will be downgrade. He's looking at higher quality stereo speakers. New ones may provide better quality but that means buying a new center speaker too, and won't get the best out of them until he changes the av amplifier. Then looking at new sub may want a couple of Velodyne 1812's. Then maybe several Pioneer 6090's, one for each person so they can watch own channel.

well you get the point

 

[NeilF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by driftingbunnies /img/forum/go_quote.gif So basically you want an all in one home theater in a box? I'm sure there are plenty of those.

In effect yes... Before getting my current system, I looked at the all in one surround sound systems (true threater in a box), but in the end spent moreto instead get my current amp and speakers, knowing that it was almost certainly a better sound and more expandable (ie: more inputs etc).

Quote:

However, the only AV receivers that I trust to also be musical would be the marantz, pioneer elite, or adcom receiver they came out with. Other than that, one amp and 5.1 speakers for your tv would sound disgustingly bad if you connected your headphone out into an integrated amp. Plus to find a good quality 5.1 integrated amp will be difficult too. So to sum up, no, those speakers that you are looking at are not worth it right now. Wait until you're serious about upgrading and get one of the higher quality AV receivers I mentioned up there before asking about speakers again.

So if you were suggesting a replacement amp, giving better musical output than my existing one, what would it be out of interest?

 

[iriverdude]

How about a Arcam AV amplifier? But they're quite expensive and would be silly using £100 speakers with one..so you need to buy higher quality speakers and and and..

 

[driftingbunnies]

All the receivers I mentioned are $1k and up. That just shows you how much you need to invest if you want something good for HT and something decent for music all in one box. While you might be ignoring iriverdude, he makes a good point. I personally would not use a 1k+ receiver with ~100-200 dollar speakers. That just seems dumb. No matter how clean your sound or how musical it is, your speakers won't be able to produce it. So you have two options: wait or upgrade piece by piece. Hopefully if you were to get an amp now, you won't assume that you're finished. However, if you want to be done and all you want to do is just buy something new, you might as well save your money since the upgrade will only be marginally better.

 

[NeilF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iriverdude /img/forum/go_quote.gif He's looking at higher quality stereo speakers. New ones may provide better quality but that means buying a new center speaker too, and won't get the best out of them until he changes the av amplifier.

That intrigues me... If I get superior front stereo speakers, why would that force a new center speaker?

And keep in mind, I'm not fussed if I don't get the best out of them, only if they will be a noticable improvement.

ps: I think one fundamental problem with bigger/better stereo speakers is many of them are rear ported? If my understanding of this is correct, then putting them in space where the rear of them is right up against the rear of my bookcase really wouldn't be good!? Is that really an issue or not?

 

[iriverdude]

To match the drivers, to keep left to right panning even in tone, and hard to explain but center just won't cope, I had largest floorstanders from a range with the matching center (from the same range) stupidly the speaker maker did not make a physically larger center with more drivers to provide the same frequency response even close to mains.

Imagine using a PC satellite speaker for your center in existing system. Bit like that, when you watch a movie it just sounds off. I had to upgrade center to a higher quality/physically larger speaker. Man that was a huge upgrade. And that center speakers alone cost more than your plasma TV.

Not all speakers are rear ported, my floorstanders are front ported, some are rear ported, some sealed, same for standmounts.

 

[NeilF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iriverdude /img/forum/go_quote.gif To match the drivers, to keep left to right panning even in tone, and hard to explain but center just won't cope, I had largest floorstanders from a range with the matching center (from the same range) stupidly the speaker maker did not make a physically larger center with more drivers to provide the same frequency response even close to mains. Imagine using a PC satellite speaker for your center in existing system. Bit like that, when you watch a movie it just sounds off. I had to upgrade center to a higher quality/physically larger speaker. Man that was a huge upgrade. And that center speakers alone cost more than your plasma TV. Not all speakers are rear ported, my floorstanders are front ported, some are rear ported, some sealed, same for standmounts.

Not sure I entirely follow?

Let's say for argument I upgrade my stereos for 902is, and they do indeed improve music a nice amount. I'm having a problem seeing how that will throw off my center speaker? Volume wise nothing will differ, and from a tone point of view the center speaker surely couldn't be that different sounding so as to make things sound worse in a 5.1 environment?

But I guess this is a major concern, could 902i's (for example) sound so out of place with the remaining speakers? Surely not?

 

[NeilF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by driftingbunnies /img/forum/go_quote.gif All the receivers I mentioned are $1k and up. That just shows you how much you need to invest if you want something good for HT and something decent for music all in one box. While you might be ignoring iriverdude, he makes a good point. I personally would not use a 1k+ receiver with ~100-200 dollar speakers. That just seems dumb. No matter how clean your sound or how musical it is, your speakers won't be able to produce it. So you have two options: wait or upgrade piece by piece. Hopefully if you were to get an amp now, you won't assume that you're finished. However, if you want to be done and all you want to do is just buy something new, you might as well save your money since the upgrade will only be marginally better.

Oh I see... No, I don't think I'd be in that league/price range...

I have a £250 amp with LR front speakers worth sub £100... If I could spend £200 (or less) on some front speakers to help improve music a bit, without upsetting the 5.1, then that to me is attractive... If not, then I'm happy to leave it be...

 

[iriverdude]

It's hard to explain - in theory your center should be fine as it may closely match new MS speakers, but in practice it won't, I've had that experience - and mates into home theatre too, with using higher quality mains with lower quality center then trying out a higher quality center. It's not something I can explain, you will notice it. Suffice to say anyone who's heard a good quality center similar to quality of mains wouldn't go back to the lower quality model. The center is incredibly important. Imagine using your TV speakers for the center, you just wouldn't do it. The quality gap between your new stereo speakers will make that gap between them and the center so much greater.

 

[NeilF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iriverdude /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's hard to explain - in theory your center should be fine as it may closely match new MS speakers, but in practice it won't, I've had that experience - and mates into home theatre too, with using higher quality mains with lower quality center then trying out a higher quality center. It's not something I can explain, you will notice it. Suffice to say anyone who's heard a good quality center similar to quality of mains wouldn't go back to the lower quality model. The center is incredibly important. Imagine using your TV speakers for the center, you just wouldn't do it. The quality gap between your new stereo speakers will make that gap between them and the center so much greater.

Well, I'd be willing in that case to upgrade the center speaker to a 905i, EXCEPT it wouldn't fit