[yuriken]

Yesterday I got bitten by the head-fi bug, and what else could that mean but... getting some new cans!!

After that brief introduction I would like to say good morning to all (8.00 a.m. here) and introduce myself properly. After all, I'm fairly new to head-fi.

Right now, I have the Grado SR225's and Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pros (80 ohm version). They're both great cans for different purposes, Grados are my main cans for listening to music and I plug in the DT770's whenever I'm watching movies or playing.

My musical taste is quite comprehensive (can you use that word in that context?). I listen to just about all sorts of rock there is

no, just kidding.. there's the occasional electronic tune that I like, but rock is the main genre. Just to name a few bands that I like: AFI, Bad Religion, Incubus, Killswitch Engage, The Cardigans, Kent, System Of A Down, Tool, The Smashing Pumpkins, No Doubt, Metallica, Avenged Sevenfold.. so you get an idea of what I'm talking about.
I think the Grados perform really well when it comes to those bands I mentioned. But the Beyerdynamics don't sound so good with rock.. I can't hear the instruments as clearly as I do with the Grados. Also the bass gets a bit overwhelming at times.

So, yesterday I was just browsing through this site (I have been a regular reader of head-fi) and once again I found myself reading the reviews of the Ultimate Ears UE 10 Pro's. They don't attract me because they're so expensive, but because I think they would deliver the things that my SR225's are lacking. I'm a pretty musically oriented person, I have a good "tone ear" or is it "note ear" (like we say in Finnish). And I love accuracy and clear tones. The Grados continue to amaze me from time to time, when I hear all these little details: fingers sliding on guitar strings.. the sound of the snare drum echoing.. and the vocals are pretty good too. But I'm always wondering how much would really great cans improve the sound. And that's why I'm now considering this upgrade. I've narrowed the candidates to two, it's either the UE10 Pro's or the RS-1's. RS-1's mainly because I love the Grado sound, and I think that they would still give me all those same things the SR225's do, but even better. The only BUT in this case is the price.. in Finland the RS-1's cost 1200 euros, and that's even more what the UE10 Pro's cost.

Of course the source matters also. I don't have a cd player, or a dvd player, or anything like that. I rip my cd's with Exact Audio and LAME and put the MP3's to my iRiver iHP-120. It drives the SR225's great, but not the DT770's (I have a Porta Corda MkII also). There wouldn't probably be any problems driving either the UE10 Pro's or the RS-1's, would there?
I don't see my source situation changing in the very near future, and by that I mean in the next few years. I may buy another HD MP3 player, but that's about it. Portability is really important for me.

I'm getting one of these cans I mentioned probably next January/February/March.. so I'll be updating this thread as things happen. Make a kind of a journal out of it

Could you guys be able to answer a couple of questions?

1. I know the UE 10 Pro's are pretty hard to audition, so I'll just ask this: How much better is the sound compared to the SR225's? Is it worth the 1100 euros I'd have to pay for them?

2. The same question for the RS-1's

3. Anybody here from Finland or Sweden or somewhere near and gotten their ear impressions made? I mean gone to an audiologist, or whatever ?

Sorry for my wallet, eh?

 

[solvexyz]

UE10 Pro has very different sound from SR-225. So different, and I am afraid you might not like it at all.

UE10 Pro is technically better than even the RS-1. However, becauses it goes into your ear, you will have stuffy feeling kinda like when you are under the water. Also, no more airy -- oohm, oohm bass feeling, and also the soundstage is even smaller than Grado.

However, all these are in exchange of near no colorization of sound, and super detailed playback of music. If you are a Grado fan, you know how fun is to possess some colorization to the music. In other words, it might be very boring for you. Also, the bass of UE10 Pro is really darn tight. However, you lose the Grado impact. I find myself right now in search of an portable amp that is able to add some colorization to the sound that makes UE10 Pro more fun.

There are some people still like Grado RS1 over UE10 Pro. I would suggest you demo Shure e4c first because that is the type of sound UE10 Pro is going to deliver, but with more impactful bass and a bit bigger sound stage, and a bit more detail.

PS. I would suggest you go for Grado RS1 since you are already a Grado fan. It is a logical upgrade.

 

[dhp]

My opinion: Buy RS-1s on the FS/FT forums. I'm 100% positive you will find a FAAARRR better deal on them than 1200 Euros

 

[foo_me]

For the reasons stated above and as a former owner of both, I'd go with the RS-1.

After listening to full sized cans, it's hard to just listen to the UE10s and that lack of soundstage.

If there was a physical reason for going portable, then I'd have no problem suggesting the UE10s , but if not, I'd much rather have full sized headphones.

Plus, you can definitely get a more affordable pair of RS1s on the For Sale forums. They show up fairly regularly...

 

[doobooloo]

If you like your SR-225s, don't get the UE-10 Pros.

Right now I have a pair of SR-225s and UE-10 Pros sitting next to me and as said before, they're so different it's not even funny. For classical, jazz and some types of rock the SR-225s are better by a huge margin. For pop, hip-hop and certain other types of rock, the UE-10 Pros are better. In general, brightly-mastered recordings will sound good on the UE-10 Pros, while less bright recordings will do well on the SR-225s.

The UE-10 Pros are meant for stage use with lots of ambient background noise; the heavy bass IMO compensates for that and produces a very natural sound when there's noise - at work, on the plane, on the train, etc. At home where it's dead quiet - all that extra bass comes right through and sort of swallows the mids and highs.

And the thing is, you can't resell the UE-10 Pros. It's a scary investment. At times I regret I ever made that decision.

But, the UE-10 Pros are excellent at what they're supposed to be good at - isolation, comfort, bass extension, all-round even frequency response (IMO a bit subdued mids) - all on the go. These make my long trips and sitting at work so much more pleasant.

If you can afford both, get both. I certainly can't afford both, but I have a pair of RS-1s coming my way anyway.

 

[fureshi]

it seems to me that your source isn't up to the task of the rs1. yes they can be driven by a portable device but you won't be doing it justice. maybe you should upgrade your source to a dedicated cd player or a high end sound card first before you jump into the rs1. i've never heard the ue10 so i don't have any comments on it.

 

[yuriken]

I don't think I made myself clear enough about the source.. getting a proper cd player is just not possible right now. I'm a student, living in a dorm room and I'm switching towns on a regular basis. That's a con when you're studying in the National Defence College, like me.
So portable HD players, are the way for me. I can carry all my favourite music in this tiny thing AND without having to change cd's all the time.

I am considering the UE10 Pro's over the RS-1's, partly because I'm not sure the RS-1's sound the best they can without an amp. And I think that UE10 Pro's would..

But what you guys said about the differences between the Grado sound and the UE's.. that sure raises a couple of questions

 

[doobooloo]

Regarding amping... the UE-10 Pros are really strange due to their retardedly low impedance. Many amps just can't handle this well and will give bloated smeared bass with no mids and artificial sounding highs.

Case in point - my UE-10 Pros sound better out of my Thinkpad T41 headphone out than when connected to my Edirol UA-25's headphone out which is absolutely fantastic with my SR-225s. The T41's headphone out is probably shared with the internal speakers which are very low impedance as well, so I'm guessing that's probably why they sound so natural straight out of those. When I put about 50 ohms of added impedance (resistors in series) between the UA-25 and my UE-10 Pros things tighten up drastically and mids are brought out a little, sounding much more defined.

So... the RS-1s I think would be more lenient with regards to amps, IMO.

 

[UAndy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuriken I am considering the UE10 Pro's over the RS-1's, partly because I'm not sure the RS-1's sound the best they can without an amp. And I think that UE10 Pro's would.. But what you guys said about the differences between the Grado sound and the UE's.. that sure raises a couple of questions

Hello Yuriken,
I own the RS1, UE10 and Westone ES3. To sum it up: The ES3 is clearly superior in almost all areas. Recently I compared the RS1 with the ES3. It is unbelievable that when switching from the RS1 to the ES3 it seems that a curtain is removed: A lot sharper focussing, faster attack - however less decay, much tighter bass - in fact the best bass I have ever heard from any headphone. The only thing is you need a 120 Ohm adapter to make the ES3 sound. (Can be obtained from Meier for 15 Euros). All other details can be checked out from the links underneath.
For the Westone products: European customers go to Variphone Belgium:
www.inears.com
I was very satisfied with their service and delivery. So no problem from that side. Earimpressions you can only check out an audiologist nearest you.


http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showt...ighlight=uandy
and
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showt...ighlight=uandy

So have some fun reading the reports (if you like) and ...
Greetings from Germany
UAndy

 

[deathsharp]

interesting, we always talk about UE and Sensaphonics, but rarely about Westone.

 

[Blitzula]

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuriken I don't think I made myself clear enough about the source.. getting a proper cd player is just not possible right now. I'm a student, living in a dorm room and I'm switching towns on a regular basis. That's a con when you're studying in the National Defence College, like me. So portable HD players, are the way for me. I can carry all my favourite music in this tiny thing AND without having to change cd's all the time. I am considering the UE10 Pro's over the RS-1's, partly because I'm not sure the RS-1's sound the best they can without an amp. And I think that UE10 Pro's would.. But what you guys said about the differences between the Grado sound and the UE's.. that sure raises a couple of questions

Any Grado sounds just fine without an amp. I haven't heard the UE10, but I also listen to metal and other rock and I imagine the comments about the possible UE10 issues with that genre are excellent points.

Definitely start with the RS-1 used. You can always upgrade later at a minor loss if you aren't satisfied.

And you're in Finland! Why no Children of Bodom on that metal list?

 

[raisin]

Buying Custom IEM's is like lending money to your brother-in-law, don't do it unless you can afford to lose it!

 

[solvexyz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by raisin Buying Custom IEM's is like lending money to your brother-in-law, don't do it unless you can afford to lose it!

lol. what the heck.

 

[iamdone]

I'd recommend the RS-1 too. The ue10 finally sound really good out of the 5th gen ipod but they are still not rock headphones. The ue10 is very picky about source and may not sound there best even though they're supposed to easily powered. I haven't listened to the RS-1 unamped but it should still be easily powered.

For the price of the ue10, you can get a used RS-1/RA-1 combo. If you don't need to isolation or ultra portability, custom iems are not worth it.

That is the second ES3 review that said they beat the ue10. They are also supposed to be more Grado like. I wish I would have gone with my gut and bought them instead of the ue10. I actually called the impression lab Westone listed for my area and they immediately thought I wanted Ultimate Ears impressions. I figured it was a sign and went for it. Plus there were not ES3 reviews at the time. Oh, well.

 

[PsychoZX]

In your case I would be looking at a source upgrade rather than a headphone upgrade.