[simtom]

Absolutely. I bought the DT990 Premiums and used them for about a week and then put the HD650s back in service for comparison. And fro my ears, and head, the DT990s were the clear winners. Because I had used the Senns for so long it took me awhile to let them go, but I did with no regrets.

I do use mine with an amp, but I also have a pair of DT770 Premiums that I use straight out of the ipod 5th gen on occasion. They have a very similar sound to the 990s, same tone but less ambiance.

The thing is though, headphones are such a personal choice. More factors involved than simply sound quality. Comfort being the main factor. I find the 990s and 770s to be the most comfortable headphones I've tried.

Thanks for giving your opinion, I'll add it to the list Do you mind sharing which amp you're using?

 

[timind]

At the time I got the 990s I was using a Bottlehead Crack. Now I'm using a Nuforce HDP.

 

[obobskivich]

So this means that they're pretty balanced headphones then? Like you said earlier, it's best to try a couple of headphones and then decide which one I like the most.

"Balanced" is a pretty fair descriptor for the HD 580/600/650 - they don't have anything "boosted" to any extreme degree; the bass is pretty neutral, the mids are pretty neutral, the treble is pretty neutral, etc. This may sound "boring" but reality is that its very easy to listen to year after year, and they are hardly ever offensive. Generally if folks dislike them its because they want "more" of something (e.g. more bass or more treble) not because the Senns have done anything explicitly offensive or undesirable in their own right. They really are quite good.

Yeah, they're still perfectly working apart from the ear cups that are starting to tear. But they can be replaced so that's not too big of an issue. As for the PRO900's, it looks like they are discontinued. Do you happen to know which headphones replaced them?

I think the "new" models simply added an "i" after - so "PRO900i" - I'm not sure what the sonic differences (if any) are, but my suspicion is "not a whole lot" given that Ultrasone's product page and literature conflates PRO900 and 900i reviews/specs/etc, my guess is the differences are more physical/practical in nature (e.g. they have a leather headband now). Note the use of words like "guess" and "suspicion" here.

This sale you're talking about, is that an Amazon thing? Because living in Belgium isn't that good if you want to buy from Amazon (we don't have a country specific Amazon store). Most of the times they don't even ship to Belgium and when they do you have to pay high shipping and import costs.

Amazon is an option, yes. My understanding is that Koss does not enforce MSRPs through its dealers, and it isn't uncommon to see any Koss product marked down from MSRP at various points in time, so in theory any dealer could offer them less MSRP. Koss themselves (they sell direct on their website) also offers a few annual sales, with the largest usually being around 25% off (and if memory serves that usually happens during the holidays - like around Christmas), which knocks the price down on the 950s a good bit too. Like I said - they're probably a stretch at the upper end, but at least worth spending a bit to read about imho (along with some of the other "a bit more expensive" models suggested here = in the world of headphone hi-fi there's roughly two big "price clusters" - one at around $300 and one at around $1000 so you should at least consider what's at the "upper end" imho; I think most of us would like an intermediate option at around $600-700 that dumps all the luxury features of the $1k+ crowd (e.g. does it really need to be gold plated and leather clad to sound good?) but keeps all the performance, but few manufacturers seem to consistently get that message).

Are there any other headphones that are listed here that you would recommend?
Headphone List (from the /r/headphones/ subreddit)

Yeesh what a messy listicle that is - I thought I'd seen some bad ones in the past but that probably takes the cake. Prices are wrong in a lot of places there (lower/higher than reality) which I'm sure leads to no end of drama too...

Overall I will say "no" - I've recommended what I've recommended based on my experience and there's not much else I'd add except "bumping" my original recommendation for the Audio-Technica ATH-A2000X to be part of your consideration too (if you hadn't caught it the first time; if you've looked and dismissed it, that's fine too).

It seems like it's a very though choice between the 600 and 650 according to this thread. It seems like the 600 is much more clearer while the 650 has some more bass to it.

I would largely agree with that synopsis (and if I remember right that's roughly what InnerFidelity said too) - the 650 have more bass and (perhaps arguably) somewhat more detail, especially in the low end, but they're also darker relative to the 580/600, and it will depend on your taste which one is "better" for you. The 600 tend to cost less on average, which makes them a perennial crowd favorite because they're not only very good, but they're probably "more neutral" than the HD 650. Fit wise they're the same thing as I recall - I don't remember the slight differences in the headband pad being felt once they're on your head.

I used Sennhieser HD650s for a couple years when a friend loaned me his Beyerdynamic T1s. My first reaction to them was, "wow, I am missing a lot of music with the 650s." After a week or so though, they really started to wear on my ears so I gave them back. The experience got me thinking about looking at some other Beyer models. I bought a used pair of Beyer DT990 Premium 250 ohm headphones and fell in love with them. Much more open than the 650s and the comfort level is off the charts.

Note that I'm not at all trying to "challenge" your experience, just want to use this to point something out for simtom:

That "I'm missing a lot of music" is probably more to do with the boosted treble (relative to the Senns) on the Beyers (or any other bright headphone) vs an outright deficiency on the Senns - sometimes you'll see the phrase "fake details" or "fake treble" when talking about bright headphones (e.g. Beyerdynamic, Grado, old Sony, etc) and this is basically what that refers to. Neither (Senn nor Beyer) is actually "wrong" here, its just one of them is putting emphasis on the high end, and this may be a good thing depending on your tastes and what you're listening to, or it may lead to fatigue ("wearing my ears out"). Again, not wrong just different. It isn't "fake" either - the treble really is boosted, and that really may help you discern more details or nuances at the upper end of the audible spectrum, but it may also be undesirable for some listening situations. Personal preference is a big factor in such a judgment.

Interesting! So you would actually recommend the DT990 Premiums over a HD600 or 650? You also need to amp them right? I started looking at some amp setups and it seems like the Schiit Modi/Magni combo is a good deal. Though I also read positive reviews about Fiio products.

Beyerdynamic, in their never-ending quest to confuse their customers, actually ships something like half a dozen SKUs of the DT990 (and many other cans) - some of which are similar to the HD 600/650 in drive requirements (250 ohms, moderate sensitivity) and some of which are (ostensibly) designed for portable/mobile use, and feature 32 ohm nominal impedance and relatively high sensitivity. The 32 ohm variant would be easier to drive for most modern electronics. I'll let someone else tackle the hornet's nest that is "do they sound different, and if so, which one is best."

As far as desktop amplification goes, some other manufacturers to consider (beyond what's already been mentioned) include: Musical Fidelity, CI Audio, and TEAC. If you're running predominately from a PC, there's also very competent soundcards (some are external and connect via USB, some are internal and connect via PCI Express) from Creative Labs that have built-in headphone amplifiers. I believe Beyerdynamic also still makes their own line of headphone amplifiers.

I've tried a FiiO product or two over the years, and they're generally of acceptable quality and functionality, if a bit on the cheap side in terms of finishing. Personally I'd look elsewhere, but that's me (and I do fully understand that they serve a budget niche that most of the other manufacturers I've suggested probably can't touch). I haven't owned any of the Schiit products but I know they're currently absurdly popular on/within Head-Fi - to the point that usually folks who have criticisms aren't nearly as visible (and this isn't just a "Schiit thing" - its a FOTM bandwagon/hypetrain thing, and I'd be saying it about any product that fits into that, but I don't think anything else suggested to you in this thread comports with that). And I'm not saying I have such a criticism, as I said I don't have experience either way, but what I am saying is: take the overwhelmingly positive-to-bordering-on-saccharine reviews with a healthy dose of salt and critical thinking when judging them against competitive products that don't enjoy FOTM bandwagon/hypetrain status.

 

[simtom]

I think the "new" models simply added an "i" after - so "PRO900i" - I'm not sure what the sonic differences (if any) are, but my suspicion is "not a whole lot" given that Ultrasone's product page and literature conflates PRO900 and 900i reviews/specs/etc, my guess is the differences are more physical/practical in nature (e.g. they have a leather headband now). Note the use of words like "guess" and "suspicion" here.

That's correct, though they are a bit pricey for me. I'll lower my budget a bit because, on second thought, €500 seems a bit excessive to me (considering that I don't listen that much to music). I would rather spend a fair bit less on headphones so I have money left to invest in an amp.

Amazon is an option, yes. My understanding is that Koss does not enforce MSRPs through its dealers, and it isn't uncommon to see any Koss product marked down from MSRP at various points in time, so in theory any dealer could offer them less MSRP. Koss themselves (they sell direct on their website) also offers a few annual sales, with the largest usually being around 25% off (and if memory serves that usually happens during the holidays - like around Christmas), which knocks the price down on the 950s a good bit too. Like I said - they're probably a stretch at the upper end, but at least worth spending a bit to read about imho (along with some of the other "a bit more expensive" models suggested here = in the world of headphone hi-fi there's roughly two big "price clusters" - one at around $300 and one at around $1000 so you should at least consider what's at the "upper end" imho; I think most of us would like an intermediate option at around $600-700 that dumps all the luxury features of the $1k+ crowd (e.g. does it really need to be gold plated and leather clad to sound good?) but keeps all the performance, but few manufacturers seem to consistently get that message).

Thanks, though, as stated above, I'll probably won't go for that upper end of headphones.

Yeesh what a messy listicle that is - I thought I'd seen some bad ones in the past but that probably takes the cake. Prices are wrong in a lot of places there (lower/higher than reality) which I'm sure leads to no end of drama too...

Overall I will say "no" - I've recommended what I've recommended based on my experience and there's not much else I'd add except "bumping" my original recommendation for the Audio-Technica ATH-A2000X to be part of your consideration too (if you hadn't caught it the first time; if you've looked and dismissed it, that's fine too).

Haha And yeah, I did forget about those. Unfortunately though, they're also discontinued. I think they have been replaced by the ATH-A2000Z's. But again, they're out of my budget.

I would largely agree with that synopsis (and if I remember right that's roughly what InnerFidelity said too) - the 650 have more bass and (perhaps arguably) somewhat more detail, especially in the low end, but they're also darker relative to the 580/600, and it will depend on your taste which one is "better" for you. The 600 tend to cost less on average, which makes them a perennial crowd favorite because they're not only very good, but they're probably "more neutral" than the HD 650. Fit wise they're the same thing as I recall - I don't remember the slight differences in the headband pad being felt once they're on your head.

So with the 600's I would have more money left to invest in a descent amp. Still tempting to go with the 650's because of the increased bass (though, like many have said, it's only a minor difference).

As far as desktop amplification goes, some other manufacturers to consider (beyond what's already been mentioned) include: Musical Fidelity, CI Audio, and TEAC. If you're running predominately from a PC, there's also very competent soundcards (some are external and connect via USB, some are internal and connect via PCI Express) from Creative Labs that have built-in headphone amplifiers. I believe Beyerdynamic also still makes their own line of headphone amplifiers.

I've tried a FiiO product or two over the years, and they're generally of acceptable quality and functionality, if a bit on the cheap side in terms of finishing. Personally I'd look elsewhere, but that's me (and I do fully understand that they serve a budget niche that most of the other manufacturers I've suggested probably can't touch). I haven't owned any of the Schiit products but I know they're currently absurdly popular on/within Head-Fi - to the point that usually folks who have criticisms aren't nearly as visible (and this isn't just a "Schiit thing" - its a FOTM bandwagon/hypetrain thing, and I'd be saying it about any product that fits into that, but I don't think anything else suggested to you in this thread comports with that). And I'm not saying I have such a criticism, as I said I don't have experience either way, but what I am saying is: take the overwhelmingly positive-to-bordering-on-saccharine reviews with a healthy dose of salt and critical thinking when judging them against competitive products that don't enjoy FOTM bandwagon/hypetrain status.

I just checked my motherboard and using an internal soundcard is impossible (I don't have any PCI Express ports left). Creative Labs does have some well priced amps (both portable and external soundcards). Now, I hate to ask this (since you've already provided so much information) but which amps from Creative Labs would you recommend? They all seem to do the same basic functions. As for FiiO, the Fiio E10K Olympus 2 seems like a good entry product.

The other brands of amps you provided are very expensive, apart from TEAC. Maybe some day I'll go with those.

The Schiit story reminds me of the Bose story you talked about in one of your first posts I'll definitely keep that in mind while reading reviews.

 

[obobskivich]

That's correct, though they are a bit pricey for me. I'll lower my budget a bit because, on second thought, €500 seems a bit excessive to me (considering that I don't listen that much to music). I would rather spend a fair bit less on headphones so I have money left to invest in an amp.



Thanks, though, as stated above, I'll probably won't go for that upper end of headphones.



Haha And yeah, I did forget about those. Unfortunately though, they're also discontinued. I think they have been replaced by the ATH-A2000Z's. But again, they're out of my budget.



So with the 600's I would have more money left to invest in a descent amp. Still tempting to go with the 650's because of the increased bass (though, like many have said, it's only a minor difference).

Frankly that all sounds very reasonable, and the HD 600 are probably the better choice if "value for money" is a strong consideration; the difference in bass is not massive - neither of them are going to be "basshead" cans, its just the HD 650 have somewhat more bass (at the expense of being somewhat less balanced). I think either of them would be a clear upgrade from the QC15 in terms of detail retrieval, soundstaging/imaging, treble/midrange quality, etc ("overall fidelity") but do keep in mind you're giving up isolation in the process (but again, for at-home, that shouldn't be a problem).

I just checked my motherboard and using an internal soundcard is impossible (I don't have any PCI Express ports left). Creative Labs does have some well priced amps (both portable and external soundcards). Now, I hate to ask this (since you've already provided so much information) but which amps from Creative Labs would you recommend? They all seem to do the same basic functions. As for FiiO, the Fiio E10K Olympus 2 seems like a good entry product.

The other brands of amps you provided are very expensive, apart from TEAC. Maybe some day I'll go with those.

I'm tempted to ask what on earth you're doing that's using up so many PCIe slots, haha.

Anyways, the SoundCore-based PCIe cards (I know, I know) would be my initial suggestion - the lower end models have a Maxim IC amplifier that can do something like 250 mW/ch into 32 ohms (that's more than enough to cause hearing damage with most headphones) and has capability for high gain/high impedance (I don't know what the power output #s look like but its compatible up to 600 ohms, and they've had no issues with the 250-300 ohm headphones I've thrown at them, including HD 580), the ZxR has a TI chip amp that does more like 1W. In terms of external boxes, I think they have one that's more or less a straight-up dedicated headphone amplifier/DAC, "Sound Blaster HD USB" or something like that - it does stereo only and has some other "limits" compared to the internal cards, but its external.

@ other brands being too expensive, Musical Fidelity should still be making the V series of not-so-horribly-expensive amplifiers (we're talking like $200 US or less).

I also remember the Creek amplifiers being popular with the Sennheiser HD 580/600 years ago - I've never heard the lower end OBH-11 (which I think is the only one still in production), but the big brother OBH-21SE was a fine sounding piece of gear until one of the channels gave out on mine (take that entire story for what its worth). No idea what pricing is like - maybe really awful maybe not so bad; I think the 21SE was around $400 US some years ago, so I'd imagine the 11 should be cheaper than that, ha.

The Schiit story reminds me of the Bose story you talked about in one of your first posts I'll definitely keep that in mind while reading reviews.

I certainly do see the potential irony of me saying that - I'm not trying to be "well I hate Coca-Cola for being popular!" but more trying to share experience having seen FOTMs over the years. I'm sure they make fine quality products and that their reputation is probably well earned, but they're also a very popular/famous brand that tends to attract an echo chamber mentality - just like how Bose is so universally praised in less specialized audio/tech circles. The truth, as with most things, lies somewhere in the middle.

 

[timind]

Note that I'm not at all trying to "challenge" your experience, just want to use this to point something out for simtom:

That "I'm missing a lot of music" is probably more to do with the boosted treble (relative to the Senns) on the Beyers (or any other bright headphone) vs an outright deficiency on the Senns - sometimes you'll see the phrase "fake details" or "fake treble" when talking about bright headphones (e.g. Beyerdynamic, Grado, old Sony, etc) and this is basically what that refers to. Neither (Senn nor Beyer) is actually "wrong" here, its just one of them is putting emphasis on the high end, and this may be a good thing depending on your tastes and what you're listening to, or it may lead to fatigue ("wearing my ears out"). Again, not wrong just different. It isn't "fake" either - the treble really is boosted, and that really may help you discern more details or nuances at the upper end of the audible spectrum, but it may also be undesirable for some listening situations. Personal preference is a big factor in such a judgment.


Beyerdynamic, in their never-ending quest to confuse their customers, actually ships something like half a dozen SKUs of the DT990 (and many other cans) - some of which are similar to the HD 600/650 in drive requirements (250 ohms, moderate sensitivity) and some of which are (ostensibly) designed for portable/mobile use, and feature 32 ohm nominal impedance and relatively high sensitivity. The 32 ohm variant would be easier to drive for most modern electronics. I'll let someone else tackle the hornet's nest that is "do they sound different, and if so, which one is best."

I'm going to address the "I'm missing a lot of music," comment. If you've listened to a piece of music repeatedly with a specific system, you become familiar with the music. When you make a change in the system and on first listen, hear many new aspects, you were "missing" music. Maybe the new system is masking other aspect I haven't noticed yet.

The Beyerdynamic T-1s most definitely had a tipped up sound to them; to the point where it became obvious, and then annoying. Might've been painful if I kept listening through them. The DT-990 Pros also had this tipped up high frequency which was very noticeable on initial listen. While the DT990 Premium 250 ohm may be a bit hotter than the HD650, I don't find it objectionable; I like it. It's all so personal.

 

[simtom]

Frankly that all sounds very reasonable, and the HD 600 are probably the better choice if "value for money" is a strong consideration; the difference in bass is not massive - neither of them are going to be "basshead" cans, its just the HD 650 have somewhat more bass (at the expense of being somewhat less balanced). I think either of them would be a clear upgrade from the QC15 in terms of detail retrieval, soundstaging/imaging, treble/midrange quality, etc ("overall fidelity") but do keep in mind you're giving up isolation in the process (but again, for at-home, that shouldn't be a problem).

That's maybe the primary reason why I want to upgrade, to get a better overall sound quality. I know it's not the way how you should do it but currently I'm using the Bass Enhancer feature of Windows. It does help to get some more bass out of your headphones.

I'm tempted to ask what on earth you're doing that's using up so many PCIe slots, haha.

Well, I looked again and I looked at the wrong slots. I thought it also needed a x16 lane but I still have 2 x1 PCIe slots left So I can use internal sound cards. But I'll probably won't use those because I also have a laptop and I would like to use it with that as well.

Anyways, the SoundCore-based PCIe cards (I know, I know) would be my initial suggestion - the lower end models have a Maxim IC amplifier that can do something like 250 mW/ch into 32 ohms (that's more than enough to cause hearing damage with most headphones) and has capability for high gain/high impedance (I don't know what the power output #s look like but its compatible up to 600 ohms, and they've had no issues with the 250-300 ohm headphones I've thrown at them, including HD 580), the ZxR has a TI chip amp that does more like 1W. In terms of external boxes, I think they have one that's more or less a straight-up dedicated headphone amplifier/DAC, "Sound Blaster HD USB" or something like that - it does stereo only and has some other "limits" compared to the internal cards, but its external.

Are you referring to the Sound Blaster X-Fi HD? The Sound Blaster E1 also seems like a good entry product. But maybe it isn't a good idea to use very cheap amps with moderately priced headphones? It's like using cheap tires on an expensive car.

@ other brands being too expensive, Musical Fidelity should still be making the V series of not-so-horribly-expensive amplifiers (we're talking like $200 US or less).

I searched for them and you're correct, the V90-HPA looks like a solid choice.

I also remember the Creek amplifiers being popular with the Sennheiser HD 580/600 years ago - I've never heard the lower end OBH-11 (which I think is the only one still in production), but the big brother OBH-21SE was a fine sounding piece of gear until one of the channels gave out on mine (take that entire story for what its worth). No idea what pricing is like - maybe really awful maybe not so bad; I think the 21SE was around $400 US some years ago, so I'd imagine the 11 should be cheaper than that, ha.

The OBH-11 costs about $199 while the OBH-21MK2 costs $650, so yeah, pretty awful for me

So that's another round of information overload, haha. I'll edit my initial post to reflect what's being recommend so far.

 

[obobskivich]

That's maybe the primary reason why I want to upgrade, to get a better overall sound quality. I know it's not the way how you should do it but currently I'm using the Bass Enhancer feature of Windows. It does help to get some more bass out of your headphones.

Nothing wrong with using EQ, but if you're adding bass to the QC15 to get to your desired bass level, the HD 600 or 650 will probably sound a bit "thin" out of the box (the QC15 are bassier than neutral).

Well, I looked again and I looked at the wrong slots. I thought it also needed a x16 lane but I still have 2 x1 PCIe slots left So I can use internal sound cards. But I'll probably won't use those because I also have a laptop and I would like to use it with that as well.

That makes sense, on both counts. An external device is probably the easier/better answer.

Are you referring to the Sound Blaster X-Fi HD? The Sound Blaster E1 also seems like a good entry product. But maybe it isn't a good idea to use very cheap amps with moderately priced headphones? It's like using cheap tires on an expensive car.

X-Fi HD, that'd be the one. I was close.

I'd disagree with "use very cheap amps with moderately priced headphones" (and I loathe car examples because they're often inaccurate, inspecific, etc and can be picked apart from both ends without providing much useful context/information). I say this for two reasons:

- The point of diminishing returns for amplifiers, especially when you don't have big power requirements, is pretty low.

- Quality on modern hardware is generally exceptional, which makes the first point even more exaggerated.

Bottom line is, the idea that you need to spend equal (or more) on the amplifier than you did on speakers/headphones is generally inaccurate and (imho) backwards. There are plenty of options in the $200 and under crowd that can handle the majority of dynamic headphones on the market. That isn't to say the "really high end" stuff may not sound better, but we're not talking 10x better, we're talking "the last few % better."

I searched for them and you're correct, the V90-HPA looks like a solid choice.

They've re-named the V series a few times over the last few years - it used to be "V-CANS" and then went through some other rebadging and on and on. It's a solid "entry level" component ime.

The OBH-11 costs about $199 while the OBH-21MK2 costs $650, so yeah, pretty awful for me

$199 doesn't sound so awful - might be worth at least looking into reviews or somesuch. Like I said, I know it *was* a very popular choice some years ago, but I don't know if it's still a popular option among the current Sennheiser crowd. And something else to keep in mind - everything we've mentioned thus far is solid state and pretty generalized in terms of capability (as in, you can run a huge range of dynamic cans from them) - overall I like that "genre" because of versatility, however the Senns are high enough impedance to play nicely with various OTL amplifiers (which I have very little experience with, predominately because I prefer the versatility and a lot of my cans are low impedance), so it might be worth seeing what's out there and popular in that genre for the Senns (or the DT990s). If you're thinking you're going to have multiple pairs of cans I'd say go with the more versatile amplifier so there's not a worry about "can I use this gear together?" but if you're just looking for a one-and-done there's certainly another avenue to explore with higher impedance headphones.

 

[simtom]

Nothing wrong with using EQ, but if you're adding bass to the QC15 to get to your desired bass level, the HD 600 or 650 will probably sound a bit "thin" out of the box (the QC15 are bassier than neutral).

Okay, that's something to keep in mind. But maybe I'll be happy with the overall sound quality of the Sennheisers. I should try them and see if I like them or not.

X-Fi HD, that'd be the one. I was close.

I'd disagree with "use very cheap amps with moderately priced headphones" (and I loathe car examples because they're often inaccurate, inspecific, etc and can be picked apart from both ends without providing much useful context/information). I say this for two reasons:

- The point of diminishing returns for amplifiers, especially when you don't have big power requirements, is pretty low.

- Quality on modern hardware is generally exceptional, which makes the first point even more exaggerated.

Bottom line is, the idea that you need to spend equal (or more) on the amplifier than you did on speakers/headphones is generally inaccurate and (imho) backwards. There are plenty of options in the $200 and under crowd that can handle the majority of dynamic headphones on the market. That isn't to say the "really high end" stuff may not sound better, but we're not talking 10x better, we're talking "the last few % better."

I thought it was a simple comparison but I understand what you're saying. Maybe I'll just go with those, they look good to me. I'll first read some reviews though. But then again, as a newbie I'll probably won't tell the difference anyway.

$199 doesn't sound so awful - might be worth at least looking into reviews or somesuch.

I actually meant the $650 price tag

I also discovered something interesting, Sennheiser is currently selling the HD 650's together with an Apogee Groove amp for €459 (~ $538). When you buy it from their store you basically get if for free. Important to note however is that resellers are selling the standard 650's for as low as €351, so yeah. For €431 I can get the 650 and X-Fi HD, which may be a better option (or 600 if I want to go even lower, prize wise).

 

[obobskivich]

I don't know anything about "Apogee Grove" - is that that built-in-to-the-cable amplifier they have? (I've seen pictures of such a thing at least).

 

[simtom]

I don't know anything about "Apogee Grove" - is that that built-in-to-the-cable amplifier they have? (I've seen pictures of such a thing at least).

Yeah, kind of. You can still use it with other devices as well but it's very compact. You can see it here.

The normal retail price is $295, so it's a nice deal.

 

[simtom]

I just checked the specifications of the FiiO E10K Olympus 2 and it looks like it's not the ideal amp to use with the listed headphones here because its maximum drive power is only 150 Ω.

 

[simtom]

I discovered yet another "cheap" amp/dac product, the Schitt Fulla 2. For $99 it seems like you're getting a very nice package. Hmm, not sure what to choose.

 

[obobskivich]

I just checked the specifications of the FiiO E10K Olympus 2 and it looks like it's not the ideal amp to use with the listed headphones here because its maximum drive power is only 150 Ω.

That's impedance, not power. They do vaguely list that as an apparent upper-end limit for compatibility though, but without more detail/explanation I'm not sure specifically what their beef is. I'd say pass - incomplete specifications are no fun to try and decipher.

Can't really make a suggestion either way on the Schiit or Apogee products since I've heard neither, but I do like the in-line design of the Apogee.

 

[simtom]

That's impedance, not power. They do vaguely list that as an apparent upper-end limit for compatibility though, but without more detail/explanation I'm not sure specifically what their beef is. I'd say pass - incomplete specifications are no fun to try and decipher.

Can't really make a suggestion either way on the Schiit or Apogee products since I've heard neither, but I do like the in-line design of the Apogee.

If you want to see the full specifications, you can find them here.

As for the two amps, the thing I'm most afraid of is that some reviewers claim that you can hear some kind of hiss (not necessarily on those but more on the cheaper amps in general). I also ordered both the 600 and 650 to try them out and see which of the two I like more. Afterwards I can still see which amp I'll take.