[joe_seattle]

It's funny how my appreciation for music, and the quality of it's reproduction, has increased since delving into this headphone world a year and a half ago.

I listen almost exclusively to vocals, whether it be pop, rock, jazz, even some opera. My HD600 phones with the Cardas cable, Darvoice 336i (Russian tubes) and awesome Sony DVD-S7000 come pretty close to ideal.

What I enjoy about the sound is our natural (real) everything sounds. Cymbals sparkle, drums boom, voices have emotion - especially with the particular tubes I'm using. What I want though is to pull the vocals just a little bit toward me. It's not the mythical veil, it's just that vocals are treated the same as drums and guitars and everything else. The phones are neutral to a fault. I want the rich texture and honesty of the singers, but without having to strain to hear them prominently over everything else.

Ok...so, what should I get? Help!
I love the ATH-L3000 - duh, right? $3000. Too much for me.

I liked the Grado HP-1, but they do get uncomfortable and are also big $$$.

Stax is an option maybe? Also, is there any truth that the Senn 580 has better vocals?

My first high-end phones were the AKG K340, which...in short...were more fussy than me! Voices had a effortless, almost ghostlike reality to them - but only certain ones, mostly males. Some instruments sounded utterly flat and fake, and the highs, while not exactly rolled off, were muted.

Any ideas for what I can try? I gave the HD650 a listen and found that they are a less neutral and more refined (think Aston Martin) version of the HD600. Lovely with certain songs, but still recessed mids.

Any ideas are much appreciated.

 

[Suntory_Times]

I think maybe looking around at different amps may be worthwhile. The darkvoice to me does not sound like the amp for you (though I may be wrong of course). There are of course the foam mods you can do to your HD600, (a quick search of the forum will find this). Hope that helped.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Have you considered the AKG K-501? It does vocals almost as well as the K-1000. You don't get the amazing soundstage, but they are voiced similarly. And the price is better, too. They turn up here and at eBay often enough and, the last time I checked, were going around $150. You might also want to keep an eye out for the Beyerdynamic DT48. New ones run $336 at B&H, but a pair just sold on eBay for about $100. I've picked up three pairs between $40 and $80 or so each. The DT48 is ruler flat, but vocals are amazing.

You might also want to think about a different amp. I'm not familiar with your Darkvoice, but it looks like a VanWaarde type amp, with a 6AS7 on the output and is OTL. Think about picking up an amp that uses DHTs on output transformers. A DHT is a directly heated triode - an older style where there is no separate filament. Those tend to have more forward mids and give sort of a shimmery, ethereal texture to vocals. That might sound like distortion, but they really breathe life into vocals. Having output transformers will smooth things over and (usually) roll things off a bit at the top and bottom. There aren't that many on the market, since the addition of output transformers hikes prices. Quality ones cost money. But if you mostly listen to vocals, this might be an investment worth making.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Damn. I keep missing these deals. I still want the 200 ohm version.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe_seattle /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's funny how my appreciation for music, and the quality of it's reproduction, has increased since delving into this headphone world a year and a half ago. I listen almost exclusively to vocals, whether it be pop, rock, jazz, even some opera. My HD600 phones with the Cardas cable, Darvoice 336i (Russian tubes) and awesome Sony DVD-S7000 come pretty close to ideal. What I enjoy about the sound is our natural (real) everything sounds. Cymbals sparkle, drums boom, voices have emotion - especially with the particular tubes I'm using. What I want though is to pull the vocals just a little bit toward me. It's not the mythical veil, it's just that vocals are treated the same as drums and guitars and everything else. The phones are neutral to a fault. I want the rich texture and honesty of the singers, but without having to strain to hear them prominently over everything else. Ok...so, what should I get? Help! I love the ATH-L3000 - duh, right? $3000. Too much for me. I liked the Grado HP-1, but they do get uncomfortable and are also big $$$. Stax is an option maybe? Also, is there any truth that the Senn 580 has better vocals? My first high-end phones were the AKG K340, which...in short...were more fussy than me! Voices had a effortless, almost ghostlike reality to them - but only certain ones, mostly males. Some instruments sounded utterly flat and fake, and the highs, while not exactly rolled off, were muted. Any ideas for what I can try? I gave the HD650 a listen and found that they are a less neutral and more refined (think Aston Martin) version of the HD600. Lovely with certain songs, but still recessed mids. Any ideas are much appreciated.

AT2000
501
48
K1000

 

[Tiemen]

AKG K-400, K500, K501, K601

 

[big-ban]

The ATH-AD2000 has much in common with the HD600, especially with the pad mod applied. It's a bit more forward, more energetic, quicker and extends deeper. I think you'd be well-off with "some AT" since almost all of their higher end headphones qualify as mids-centric.

AD2000 Frequency Response

HD600 Frequency Response

If you want a bit of the L3000 sound, you might wanna try the ATH-A2000X. It shares some similarities with the L3000 although it is a good bit brighter. Also, the pad mod was necessary for me to get at least somewhat sufficient amounts of bass. Without the mod, it is very bright.

A2000X Frequency Response

L3000 Frequency Response

 

[glitch39]

Before you change amps or HP's, I would roll the russian tubes first. Heard those before and they can sound too SS, which is good by itself, because it lends to accurate reproduction. But since you are looking for midrange bloom, I suggest trying a 6080 tube in there. Tried it before and it was very strong on vocals. I think I used a 1950's sylvania.

 

[rain_uk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe_seattle /img/forum/go_quote.gif What I want though is to pull the vocals just a little bit toward me. It's not the mythical veil, it's just that vocals are treated the same as drums and guitars and everything else.

I had a similar need, I acheived this by changing DAC from CD63 Mk3 KIsig to a more modern DACMAGIC-B (Nov2008 model), just my 2 pence worth

 

[analogbox]

IME, Equinox cable brought out a bit more mid range.

 

[Acix]

You can try the Ultrasone. The vocals sound natural (real) and with the S-logic, the vocals seem to be moving toward you and the others stay further away, creating a sensation of depth in the stereo image. It's as if the singer is standing right next to you singing into your ear.

The RS-1 can give almost the same feeling. They have a smaller sound stage, and the sound is more forward so the vocals seem like they're up front and in your face.

The K-702s (my personal favorite), just give you the original, and maybe the most natural position in the sound stage. It sounds perhaps as the music producer intended to position the vocals.

 

[big-ban]

I disagree on the Ultrasone recommendation. All Ultrasones I've heard so far (the Edition 9 to a lesser extent) had recessed mids and didn't focus on vocals at all. They all seem to share rather "cold" mids, some sound metallic and plasticky (PROline 750 / HFI-680) and that's not what vocals need if you ask me.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by big-ban /img/forum/go_quote.gif I disagree on the Ultrasone recommendation. All Ultrasones I've heard so far (the Edition 9 to a lesser extent) had recessed mids and didn't focus on vocals at all. They all seem to share rather "cold" mids, some sound metallic and plasticky (PROline 750 / HFI-680) and that's not what vocals need if you ask me.

Maybe you are mistaking 'realness' as cold.

 

[joe_seattle]

Thanks for all the great suggestions and advice. I've tried the easiest fix, switching tubes. When I bought the Darkvoice 336i from a head-fi member over the summer, it came with a bunch of pretty good tubes. In fact, I have two different Sylvania front tubes - one with red lettering and one with green. Can anyone offer opinions on these tubes, or suggest other good ones?

With a green tube in, the midrange is more prominent. The tube that was pushing the vocals back a bit is the brown-base tube. It doesn't have any manufacturer markings, so I don't know much about it. What it does exceedingly well is provide awesome definition and separation of all the sounds, providing a kind of 3-D sense, increased texture and richness. Somehow all that combines to give voices really mind-boggling, almost tangible emotion. The Sylvania brings the vocals forward so I'm not straining, or turning up the volume, but lacks a bit in with regard to separation and texture.

So, nothing is perfect and I suppose this is why we like the option of changing the sound by tube rolling.

I will see if I can give the ATH-AD2000 a try at the next head-fi meet, as well as the K501. I tried the K501 at a shop briefly a while back and can't say I was wowed...but brief samples can be deceiving, since I find my ears are reacting to the difference with what I am used to hearing, rather than just the quality of the sound itself. I have become very fond of the HD600 thick/syrupy/lush/weighty sound, and don't want to give that up unless the trade-off is significant (like with some of the Stax phones).

 

[Maxvla]

Changing from a MKIII amp to a MKVI balanced amp brought my HD600's vocals forward a bit. I like the placement now. Before it was a bit distracting. Perhaps a different solution than simply changing phones can be done. I never even realized this happened until I saw this post and thought about it. Pieces like Vier Letzte Lieder by Strauss are simply amazing now.