[bpower]

Hi all,

What would you upgrade on this rig?

Laptop/Foobar2000(ASIO)-> M-Audio Transit->HeadFive-> 325is.

I was thinking of gettin a pair of Senns to complement the Grados, but I suspect my source wouldn't do them justice

Should I get DAC, a better Amp, spend money on cables, or just get the Senns or a combo of the above?

A flexible $500 to spend, have at it.

 

[facelvega]

It's rare around here when one can wholeheartedly say that your source and amp are good enough for now, what you need is another headphone-- but that's exactly what I suggest for you, bpower. But why the Senns? What are you listening to? Unless you're sure they're what you want, maybe it's time to spend an hour or two with the search function, and perhaps start a new thread.

But out of curiosity, is there any sense in which you feel your current system is lacking? Do you feel like either the source or amp is a weak link?

 

[TimmyMac]

I hear people like K701s with the headfive...

edit: And Senns aren't exactly going to be an upgrade from your 325i's... just... different.

 

[bpower]

I love the sound from my current rig, I can't imagine it getting much better. The head five is the only amp I've heard, so I've nothing to compare it to.

I read a recent thread where people were saying that everyone should atleast try out senns and grados. Well I have the Grado, now I'd like to try the senns (or similar, maybe 701s?). Im a little worried that using the m-audio transit as a DAC is a weak link. I hear lots of talk about senns needing a really good source to sound well. I have a pair of px100s which I enjoy at times, are they representative of the senn "house-sound" in the same way as sr-60s are of grado's "house-sound"?

My music is all ripped to at least 196k (about 30% 196K wma, the rest 320 mp3). 75% rock 15% electronica and 10% Classical.

So you guys think my setup is fine for a pair of senns/701s?

You dont think I need to invest in a better DAC?

 

[Imperfectcircle]

I'm new to the whole headphone thing, but have been into high -end audio for many years. Im just curious, but if your ripping your cds using lossy compression I don't think a better DAC is going to make the sound any better. IF you want better sound you can get it for free just by re ripping your cds using a lossless compression like Flac. With hard drive space so cheap why waste your time with lossy compressions? I know many people claim that you cant tell the difference between Mp3 @ 320kbps and lossless compression, but I can definitly tell the differance on my main home system and I would imagine it would be even easier to hear with headphones. I can understand using lossy for portable use, but not for home.If your gonna go through the trouble of ripping all your cds, do it in a lossless format, that way you can always get back the original uncompressed files and/of convert to a lossy format for use on your portable. I could be wrong but it just seems to make sense?

 

[HFat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bpower /img/forum/go_quote.gif I read a recent thread where people were saying that everyone should atleast try out senns and grados.

Those are words inspired by constroversy and faddishness. You read lots of silly things around these parts. There's nothing as fun as sillyness but don't take that stuff too seriously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bpower /img/forum/go_quote.gif Im a little worried that using the m-audio transit as a DAC is a weak link. I hear lots of talk about senns needing a really good source to sound well.

Your weak link is most likely your recordings (I'm not talking about the lossy compression but the actual recording process), then your hearing, your headphones, and only after that possibly maybe your source and amp.
If you wanted to upgrade your source (and why not?), you should decide first if you want to stay with a transportable source or if you'd be willing to give something larger a try.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bpower /img/forum/go_quote.gif So you guys think my setup is fine for a pair of senns/701s?

Yes but then again it would be fine for many other 'phones... while you have facelvega's attention, ask him for guidance in these matters for he his wise and experienced beyond his years. He knows of weird driver and housing designs. He treads paths that the incurious avoid and brings back the good news. Or something like that.

 

[HFat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imperfectcircle /img/forum/go_quote.gif Im just curious, but if your ripping your cds using lossy compression I don't think a better DAC is going to make the sound any better.

Whether a better DAC will make a difference has little to do with lossy compression (assuming it's done reasonably well).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imperfectcircle /img/forum/go_quote.gif With hard drive space so cheap why waste your time with lossy compressions?

Because laptop drives aren't so big or so cheap and because it doesn't sound worse than lossless anyway, snobs notwithstanding.

But yeah, ripping to lossless makes sense for archival purposes. But kepping such huge files on a 2.5'' hard drive after the deed is done, not so much.

 

[jilgiljongiljing]

I'm one of those ppl who cant tell the difference between 320kbps and flac unless it is a top notch recording. For the most part, most albums seem poorly mastered anyway, so it doesnt seem to make a big difference to my ears.

 

[bpower]

Imperfectcircle,
I can tell the diff between 128 and 196 in acoustic music, outside that I cant spot any difference, say between 196 and lossless (I hate that term, all analog to digital conversion are lossy, but whateva). So I don't see that as a productive avenue for improvement.


HFat, thanks for your beautifully written advice

"If you wanted to upgrade your source (and why not?), you should decide first if you want to stay with a transportable source or if you'd be willing to give something larger a try."

Yes I'm quite happy to sacrifice portability and I want to upgrade my source, what do you have in mind?

facelvega,
With my current system (with perhaps an upgraded DAC) what set of cans would you recommend to compliment my Grados? HFat has hyped you up, so I'm expecting some pretty good advice

No one seems too excited about the DAC upgrade, isn't it worth it?

Thanks to all for the advice so far.

 

[HFat]

I have chosen to keep my source transportable so I don't have much to say about heavy-duty DACs. You seem to be partial to pro brands (you have an M-Audio) so maybe you should look into the Presonus Central Station which should be within your budget and has been hyped to high heavens... I have no experience with it however so this is NOT a recommendation. There is another forum for that stuff on head-fi by the way.

Regarding headphones, you should say where you live. You should also tell us more about your tastes... we know you like your Grado but what else have you tried and what did you think about these other 'phones?

 

[facelvega]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HFat /img/forum/go_quote.gif Your weak link is most likely your recordings (I'm not talking about the lossy compression but the actual recording process), then your hearing, your headphones, and only after that possibly maybe your source and amp. If you wanted to upgrade your source (and why not?), you should decide first if you want to stay with a transportable source or if you'd be willing to give something larger a try.

Bravo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HFat /img/forum/go_quote.gif Whether a better DAC will make a difference has little to do with lossy compression (assuming it's done reasonably well). ... Because laptop drives aren't so big or so cheap and because it doesn't sound worse than lossless anyway, snobs notwithstanding. ... But yeah, ripping to lossless makes sense for archival purposes. But kepping such huge files on a 2.5'' hard drive after the deed is done, not so much.

Once again, I agree wholeheartedly with all this. It takes an extremely good system and a hawk's hearing to prove actually being able to perceive a digital difference beyond a certain point. But what matters far more than digital differences are the analog ones. And this is one thing that often seems completely misunderstood around here: a DAC is an analog device, and the measure of its quality is entirely in the analog sound it produces. And in this sense, maybe a source upgrade would be worth pursuing.

Don't throw money at it, though. If I were in your position, I might try something in the $200 range (like a Zhaolu, say), testing it closely against the transit by itself before I decided to keep it. If your computer has a digital out, you might even try eliminating the transit, which would then allow you to recoup a good portion of the cost of the dac. It's fairly safe to test out dacs these days, as the used prices are for the moment both high and stable. The Presonus, though very interesting, would sadly leave you no budget for headphones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bpower /img/forum/go_quote.gif With my current system (with perhaps an upgraded DAC) what set of cans would you recommend to compliment my Grados?

Once again HFat beat me to it: what country are you in, and what else have you heard? Also a bit more detail on the kind of music you'll be listening to would be useful. I daresay we can find you something interesting well within budget, DAC included.

 

[bpower]

"Once again HFat beat me to it: what country are you in, and what else have you heard? Also a bit more detail on the kind of music you'll be listening to would be useful. I daresay we can find you something interesting well within budget, DAC included." Cool!


"what country are you in" Ireland, this means I have almost no way of testing before I buy. I have relations in the US, so its possible for me to get them for me and send it over.

"and what else have you heard?" 325is, sr-60, px100, shure e4

In comparison to the 325is,I like the deep bass of the px100, but it still sounds bloated and artificial to me. I like the flatness of the e4, everything seems to be at the right level with nothing standing out (this make sense?), although it gets a bit muddled/crowded at times, but i guess thats the nature of iems.

But I love,love,love the 325is.Vocals, guitars and symbols are amazing (listening to "PJ Harvey- The mess we're in" right now, and Im pretty close to tears). I plan on keeping it as my main rock phone.

"Also a bit more detail on the kind of music you'll be listening to would be useful"
My listening tastes are like 75% guitar bands, 15% electronica, 10% classical. I've also started to watch movies on my laptop with my phones, so i'd like a can for this also.

Id like a phone that excels in the areas the the 325is are deficient. Deeper bass (but still as punchy as the 325 if possible), soundstage for movies and classical, comfort for long listening sessions. I guess im looking for a less coloured/ laid back phone to complement the Grados.

I've asked this question a few times but have never gotten an answer, is the px100 representative of the senn "house sound" in the same way the sr60 is of the Grados?


Brian

 

[facelvega]

Oh, well, then, there's one easy answer that satisfies most of what you're asking for: the AKG K340. Take advantage of the fact that you're in Europe and get one off German ebay, where they cost much less than in the US. There are two listed right now, and both auctions say they'll ship to Ireland. Don't pay over a hundred shipped for either of them, though, as you may want the money later to start modifying them. Or you could cough up $300-350 on the for sale forum and get a fully modded pair right away, though then between this and the DAC you'll have gone through your whole budget. I notice KT88 is thinking of selling his pair.

Search on them a bit to see if they sound interesting to you, and to see what you'd be getting yourself into if you did start to mod them. There are other headphones that might also satisfy, but take a look at the K340 first and let us know if that's maybe what you're looking for. I think it may be a good fit: comfort, very good soundstage, strong bass, punchy, and really a fine headphone.

 

[HFat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bpower /img/forum/go_quote.gif Id like a phone that excels in the areas the the 325is are deficient. Deeper bass (but still as punchy as the 325 if possible), soundstage for movies and classical, comfort for long listening sessions. I guess im looking for a less coloured/ laid back phone to complement the Grados.

As an alternative to facelvega's recommendation (not that's there's anything wrong with it), here's a more conventional suggestion: Beyers. They have several headphones with a different sound but all their top headphones excel in comfort. Nice soundstage too. I only own the DT880 which is indeed much less coloured (if a little bright) than my Grados but unfortunately doesn't have that Grado bass punch. If you want a lot of bass, look at other Beyers.
You can also get old Beyer models such as the DT990 from the 80s for relatively cheap on the used market (most likely they will need new foams and pads though).

Quote:

Originally Posted by bpower /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've asked this question a few times but have never gotten an answer, is the px100 representative of the senn "house sound" in the same way the sr60 is of the Grados?

Not really. Sennheiser sells many different-sounding headphones. I fear most of the popular Senns will sound somewhat bloated to you (a bit like the PX100). If you want to try open Senns, look into the HD595. This is NOT a recommendation though.

 

[Davesrose]

Actually, I do think you might like Senns or Beyers as a compliment to the 325i more then the k340. Don't jump on me yet facelvega, I'm going to reason it out!!

I like the 325i for vocals and guitar too....it's one heck of a rock headphone. But since you're looking for a compliment for classical and electronica, then I think you need something with more bass. This is where the Sennheiser HD650 or DT880 or DT990 comes in! The AKGs are good for detail, but I think you'll want something bassier for electronica. If you can audition the 650 or Beyers, I'd recommend that. I hear the Headfive can be a bit muddy for the HD650. If that is the case, then Beyers might have better synergy. On my system, I find the SR325i and HD650 are great compliments myself.