Upgrade debate: source vs. cans

[Mindless]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bisco82 /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you have the option to get a top of the line Grado, do it. You wont need all that much to drive it, and it is amazing. Mindless, thats why you got one on the way. Come on now.

Why buy just because you can? It's not like GS1000 is a limited edition headphone. They are still in production and probably will be as long as they are deemed profitable.

I could have bought Omega II or a similarly priced headphone if I wanted, but I didn't because then I wouldn't be able to afford a good enough source and other components to do the headphones justice.

Buying something expensive just because you can is stupid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavefunction /img/forum/go_quote.gif No need to get CD (that's 90's stuff, lossless on computer is as good or better ) and you already have a good DAC. So.. definitely look for new phones, or see if you like a tube amp (you'll get distortion but many consider it pleasant distortion).

I'm sorry to say that you've brought ignorance to a new level by saying a CD player is obsolete. Any kind of experience you would like to share that has made you come to this conclusion?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundinista /img/forum/go_quote.gif (and forget about the word "source" ).

Source is from where the music is coming from. Be it your computer, DAC or CD player.

 

[Bisco82]

Start with the headphone and build around it. If you want to build around the Dt880, fine. But in order to get the best set up in the long run, figure out what headphone you will use, then gather the best components around it that are a good fit.

 

[MasiveMunkey]

I have the dt880s and the SOHA also and I have to agree with Tomb. The SOHA is not a very detailed amp and really doesn't do the dt880s justice. If I were you I would definitely buy a new amp or dac before new headphones. If you really wanted to switch headphones after the amp/dac upgrade you could probably trade your dt880s for something else that fit your tastes better.

 

[Ahobaka]

Going all out on a headphone just to ignore the source (which is quite mediocre to be honest) is a waste. As it has been pointed out before, there's no point buying a top-of-the-line headphone if you can't go all out with the rest. The result you would end up would be "garbage in, garbage out".

While doing that it might sound pleasing or fun at first, but seriously, you would be no way near the 'phones fullest potential or for that matter what you've paid for in soundquality.

I thought my setup was good. I got a powerful amp that sounds great and matches my headphones quite well. Having tested my gear against some high-end sources I see the faults in my own rig and what I've been missing out. HD600, SR225 and D2000 are by no means top-of-the-line, but given the right source and amping, you will be baffled by how much you can get out of them.

So, my advice is going for a DAC if you're definetly going for a "computer as source"-setup. Personally I've been looking on the Harmony Design DA9 (swedish made), people have compared it to the Benchmark DAC1 among others, aswell as some Linn CDPs and have found that it stands just as tall as them or in some cases even above them with some differences in various points.

You could also go for the AMP w/ integrated DAC. Corda Opera is one choice, it has a very good DAC, but it's by no means extraordinary, having compared it to my Pioneer PD-D6-J it's about the same with some minor differences (take in consideration that the Pioneer is a mid-range CDP in terms of cost), interconnects may also change the result a bit.

 

[mercbuggy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavefunction /img/forum/go_quote.gif No need to get CD (that's 90's stuff, lossless on computer is as good or better ) and you already have a good DAC. So.. definitely look for new phones, or see if you like a tube amp (you'll get distortion but many consider it pleasant distortion).

Lossless on a computer better than CD, mmm interesting concept

. Where do you get your lossless from, CD? When I get home from a hard days work and want to unwind I really want to install myself in front of my computer just one more time....Instead I am drawn to the comforting green glow in the corner of the room reminding me that there are people who put 'love' into audio equipment, knowing that all inside has been selected with exhaustive testing to deliver the best that the little silver disc can portray. Whether through phones or speakers I am audibly reminded every time I use that 'antiquated' technology that quality can endure.

 

[Ahobaka]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mercbuggy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Lossless on a computer better than CD, mmm interesting concept . Where do you get your lossless from, CD? When I get home from a hard days work and want to unwind I really want to install myself in front of my computer just one more time....Instead I am drawn to the comforting green glow in the corner of the room reminding me that there are people who put 'love' into audio equipment, knowing that all inside has been selected with exhaustive testing to deliver the best that the little silver disc can portray. Whether through phones or speakers I am audibly reminded every time I use that 'antiquated' technology that quality can endure.

That, and computers are often noisy sources. It's always nicer to listen in a quiet room with no other disturbances.

 

[wavefunction]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mercbuggy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Lossless on a computer better than CD, mmm interesting concept . Where do you get your lossless from, CD? -snip-

Yes the lossless files are initially from a CD. But once on the harddrive/cached to RAM, I believe it is more distortion proof than when constantly read by the CD laser. At worst case it would be 100% identical, right?

This is of course given that the initial cd rip was made 100% perfect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mindless I'm sorry to say that you've brought ignorance to a new level by saying a CD player is obsolete. Any kind of experience you would like to share that has made you come to this conclusion?

Perhaps the biggest advantage is the physical space you save when having your music collection on your file server. Also you have the great advantage of searching through your whole music collection in the matter of a few seconds, or play randomly through hundreds of CD's. Things you simply cannot do with regular CD players.

I don't think thats ignorant

 

[uraflit]

to the OP: headphones give you the most "change" in sound signature, changes in amps and sources simply "improve" the headphone you have plugged in. if you are looking for a different sound signature, get new headphones (you can upgrade source/amp later if need be). if you like the dt880, get a source/amp upgrade.

and to the tussle btw. comp and CD player... it all comes down to how you like to handle your music collection. simple and fast = computer, but you'll need to silence the computer. traditional and a bit slower = cd player, but its easier to have a better "listening environment"

i don't think anyone can really say one is better than the other... and even if they can, it could just be a preference (and a small one i might add)

 

[rwest1389]

Well I think he's going to stick to the computer because he doesnt have many cds and to try and burn them all would be... too hard. Hes looking for the Opera, although that might be a little out of his range. Are there any good DAC/amp combos around 800 that ideally have a warmer, tubelike signature? Or is it better to just get them separate. It looks like hes not going to spring for really nice headphones if they wont be used to their fullest potential, so source and amp first.

 

[sejarzo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mercbuggy /img/forum/go_quote.gif ....Instead I am drawn to the comforting green glow in the corner of the room reminding me that there are people who put 'love' into audio equipment, knowing that all inside has been selected with exhaustive testing to deliver the best that the little silver disc can portray. Whether through phones or speakers I am audibly reminded every time I use that 'antiquated' technology that quality can endure.

That being said........there are CD players out there that are built to meet a low price point--any non-boutique brand, in fact--and there are USB and FireWire devices out there that are used to record, mix, and master what goes on the little silver disc that are often used for playback.

There is no escaping the computer in audio now, it's just where and when it's in the chain.

 

[tomb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasiveMunkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have the dt880s and the SOHA also and I have to agree with Tomb. The SOHA is not a very detailed amp and really doesn't do the dt880s justice. If I were you I would definitely buy a new amp or dac before new headphones. If you really wanted to switch headphones after the amp/dac upgrade you could probably trade your dt880s for something else that fit your tastes better.

So does that mean you got your SOHA fixed? That's good, but you need to build a Millett MAX. Now there's an amp with detail and slam.

 

[Mindless]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavefunction /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes the lossless files are initially from a CD. But once on the harddrive/cached to RAM, I believe it is more distortion proof than when constantly read by the CD laser. At worst case it would be 100% identical, right? This is of course given that the initial cd rip was made 100% perfect. Perhaps the biggest advantage is the physical space you save when having your music collection on your file server. Also you have the great advantage of searching through your whole music collection in the matter of a few seconds, or play randomly through hundreds of CD's. Things you simply cannot do with regular CD players. I don't think thats ignorant

I doubt a CD rip can be done flawlessly, neither can a CD recording, but I'd bet what's rest of my money after buying my new system that the CD you rip sounds better before you rip it played decent CD player.

Physical space? Come on...

Sure, having your gazillion songs on a computer is very practical and takes pretty much no time. But why hurry? Do you have to listen to your music fast? The songs are still the same lenght and still take the same time to listen to. Part of the enjoyment also lies in collecting. The whole idea of this (at least I think so) is to settle down and enjoy what you're doing and relieve yourself of any worldy worries (stress = everything should go fast, for example).

That's my two cents. Of course, if you feel differently, feel free. My point is that a computer is in no way a superior source sound-wise.

 

[MasiveMunkey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomb /img/forum/go_quote.gif So does that mean you got your SOHA fixed? That's good, but you need to build a Millett MAX. Now there's an amp with detail and slam.

Yeah I finally fixed it!

I want to build the max, but no board

, I'll try to snag one when the extras go on sale. Thanks for you help btw.

 

[mercbuggy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sejarzo /img/forum/go_quote.gif That being said........there are CD players out there that are built to meet a low price point--any non-boutique brand, in fact--and there are USB and FireWire devices out there that are used to record, mix, and master what goes on the little silver disc that are often used for playback. There is no escaping the computer in audio now, it's just where and when it's in the chain.

Of course you are right & I embrace it as a home studio recorder, praise it when a modern recording release pushes digital recording quality to it's limits, (eg Naim's own label CD releases), curse it when all it seems to deliver is highly compressed dynamically one dimensional disappointment and wonder at it when I carry around a jukebox full of near transparent facsimiles of my home based CD collection

.

It is definitely in my audio chain, just not in my listening room.....yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mindless /img/forum/go_quote.gif I doubt a CD rip can be done flawlessly, neither can a CD recording, but I'd bet what's rest of my money after buying my new system that the CD you rip sounds better before you rip it played decent CD player. Physical space? Come on... Sure, having your gazillion songs on a computer is very practical and takes pretty much no time. But why hurry? Do you have to listen to your music fast? The songs are still the same lenght and still take the same time to listen to. Part of the enjoyment also lies in collecting. The whole idea of this (at least I think so) is to settle down and enjoy what you're doing and relieve yourself of any worldy worries (stress = everything should go fast, for example). That's my two cents. Of course, if you feel differently, feel free. My point is that a computer is in no way a superior source sound-wise.

Completely subscribe to your listening philosophy! Great CD player by the way

.

 

[Mindless]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mercbuggy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Great CD player by the way .

Yeah, it really is. Among the best I've heard. Don't regret spending $2100 on it, eventhough one went on eBay the day after for $1500.