Unsure Of My Upgrade Path (R70x)

[gohan2091]

I once owned the Schiit Gungnir 1 Multi-Bit a few years ago and it basically made recordings “more revealing” by pushing everything a little bit forward and making more of the power voltage from the XLR (balanced) output. From what I heard from others is that when you moved down from Gungnir 1 Multi-Bit to Bifrost 1 Multi-Bit to Modi 1 Multi-Bit (assuming that all only used the RCA, or unbalanced, out), your soundstage slightly narrowed down a little bit as you downgraded. This should be from the downgrade for the power supply, as the Gungnir 1 body was about 2 twice as large as the Bifrost 1 body and the both having a built-in power supply from the Modi 1 Multi-Bit, which should have been a wall-wart, or an power supply in a seperate adapter brick.

Schiit models are different now with different PCBs, power supplies, etc., but the general model scaling remains and the multi-bit DAC chip concept of medical-grade “bit-perfect” DAC processing is the focus for your potential modi 2 multi-bit purchase. The medical-grade designation in a DAC chip is still really just a gimmick to me, as you should always have a generally consistent power current to your DAC, but it is really on you and what level of discernment you have with your hearing. Can you tell, or discern, the difference during gaming? What about music? Does it remain for videos?

Once again, it is up to you and how want to make this audio chain for yourself.

So you're saying basically to ignore marketing terms and take priority on getting a DAC that has an internal power supply rather than something external? Like the Bifrost 2/64? cleaner power means higher quality audio and less interference? The interference I cannot hear while audio is playing, only when the audio is turned off.

@WILLJS yes please, that would be good to see. I've no idea some of the terminology you're using in your message lol

 

[pbui44]

So you're saying basically to ignore marketing terms and take priority on getting a DAC that has an internal power supply rather than something external? Like the Bifrost 2/64? cleaner power means higher quality audio and less interference? The interference I cannot hear while audio is playing, only when the audio is turned off.

Actually, no. I was just supporting your future intentions on getting the modi 2 multi-bit. You were the one jumping to conclusions.

 

[WILLJS]

@WILLJS yes please, that would be good to see. I've no idea some of the terminology you're using in your message lol

I’ll be home around 5 i’ll send a few photos then.

edit:

I use a combination of both felt and foam (solid felt is too much attenuation, only foam is too little). This method helps minimise acoustic impedance issues as well. This may not be necessary on the R70x but it’s cheap so why not try it.

 

[pbui44]

So considering that review with the stock ATH-ADX5000 ear pad swap on the ATH-ADX3000, I think that you are better off buying this than the Schiit Modi 2 Multibit or the alcantara ear pad sets:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256807527737753.html

It will take a bit of time, but you will eventually understand which frequency band knob(s) will need the most adjustment between your games and music and will be your main go-to sound adjustment knob(s) for the sound that you want.

 

[gohan2091]

Thanks for the pictures, appreciate that. This is not for my R70x though, my posts of recent have been about the ADX3000. I'm not sure I want to mess around with felt and foam but it is an option I won't dismiss. I will see how things go when the headphones come. I'm an audio noob things may sound ok to my ears.

@pbui44, no thanks, but appreciate the thought. That doesn't appeal to me, adds an extra piece of hardware, complexity. I do want a new DAC, an external one, away from my noisey RTX 4090 GPU. I got a response back from Audio Technica. A pair of Alcantara ear pads for the ADX5000 is £154.74 (GBP) which is insane! so that's not an option I am prepared to go down.

 

[pbui44]

I got a response back from Audio Technica. A pair of Alcantara ear pads for the ADX5000 is £154.74 (GBP) which is insane! so that's not an option I am prepared to go down.

E-mail Yaxi now and see if their Alcantara ATH-AD2000X ear pads will fit the ATH-ADX3000.

 

[gohan2091]

E-mail Yaxi now and see if their Alcantara ATH-AD2000X ear pads will fit the ATH-ADX3000.

Email sent. The ADX3000 arrived today. Just trying to find good EQ settings. I'm experimenting with using the Oratory1990 settings for the ADX5000 and also one made by ChatGPT. So far, I think I prefer no EQ. I will try PEQdb later. One video review said he noticed an audio improvement after a few days of burn-in with the ADX3000 so I will keep that in mind. So far, I am liking these headphones but it's very early. Comfort is good (but still the R70x comfort for me is unbeaten). Regarding low-gain and high-gain, should I be using high-gain as default? Volume levels on low-gain (with negative pre-amp gain) is still ok but reaching towards the end of the volume knob of the Asgard 3.

I also got another reply back from Audio Technica which I want to share regarding the ADX5000 pads. I gave them the review that suggested using the ADX5000 pads on the ADX3000 felt like an improvement. This is their response:

"I'm going to have to fundamentally disagree here. And as the second person in the UK to ever hear these headphones, I do have more experience and knowledge to boot.

The ADX range are reference headphones, these are not consumer grade toys, or a pair of headphones to leave lying around. These are tools for critical listening. The main differences between the ADX3000 and ADX5000 is the cost, and the cost of the parts. As they are both flagship designs, I put them on par with each other. So what's the real difference? Well the ADX5000 has very expensive materials, because those materials are the best for the job, and not because it meets a price range people can meet them at.

For example the ADX3000 earpads are velvet, which is a quality material that can be make from synthetic fibres, which can be made cost effective, thus is was selected for the ADX3000, whereas the ADX5000 use Alcantra for the headband and earpads. I don't really know where else you're going to find alcantra other than the suede like interior of a very nice Porsche or similar. There is absolute a cost, and comfort difference here. The ADX5000's driver uses permendur magnets, whereas the ADX3000's are iron.

These are the basic differences. They are both premium headphones focused on the sound. One has a no expense spare ethos, and the other is bringing the same level of performance at a most cost effective price point.

When it comes to the sound, is the ADX3000 problematic at 4K or was the music mixed with poor references? As a guitar player, 4K is a very important region for me, this is the top end of frequencies for an electric amplified guitar, so if this were the case, I really wouldn't like them. But in reality, Meshuggah sounds better on the ADX3000's. In terms of sound profile, the ADX5000's are flatter, more neutral sounding, and really shine with orchestral, or film scores. The ADX3000 really shine with modern music genres, as they are a little closer to the “V” or “harmon” curve most consumers expect from headphones.

Just as a side note, the earpads absolutely affect the sound. I understand that the reviews might recommend something, but I'm sure they would also recommend redoing the interior of a small hatchback in Alcantra. I can't say I would recommend the same.

And with that, I would like to share with you the vision of the founder of Audio-Technica, Hideo Matsushita. His vision was to create a quality audio experience for all, enabling people to access quality products for any application or budget.

This is the ADX3000.

I hope this helps. Please let me know if you need anything else."

 

[WILLJS]

With all due respect to Audio Technica, take this with a grain of salt. every manufacturer who doesn’t supply pad options etc will tell you not to mess with them. This case is a bit strange because as you want to swap them with another AT product. Mostly this sort of thing is trying to ensure that people buy their replacement rather than generic or third party. Seeing as you’re doing this anyway who knows why they’re trying to dissuade you from swapping for ADX5000 pads, but there would undoubtably be a marketing reason.

Then again, this could just be me being out of line.

 

[gohan2091]

With all due respect to Audio Technica, take this with a grain of salt. every manufacturer who doesn’t supply pad options etc will tell you not to mess with them. This case is a bit strange because as you want to swap them with another AT product. Mostly this sort of thing is trying to ensure that people buy their replacement rather than generic or third party. Seeing as you’re doing this anyway who knows why they’re trying to dissuade you from swapping for ADX5000 pads, but there would undoubtably be a marketing reason.

Then again, this could just be me being out of line.

I'm not 100% sure I want to swap pads, it's a consideration based on the review. Hearing the cost of the ADX5000 pads, it's not something in my budget. Having now got the ADX3000 in my hands, the stock pads sound ok to my ear. I am looking for some EQ settings though. Oratory1990 is usually my go to but this model isn't listed (The ADX5000 model is)

I have been talking to Audio Technica further since my last message. I will share what they said about the ear pads:

"I can honestly say I wouldn't recommend it, as the earpads are part of the sound. They don't sound at all bad with the 5000 earpads, but it doesn't get you closer to the 5000's, it makes the 3000's sound different. Being a Product Specialist, I often have to solve odd ways in which customer use our products, so I tend to experiment with these thing anyway to keep myself ahead. For example the M40X and M50X earpads are made from the same materials, but they are not interchangeable as they sound different.

The rule for earpads, is don't change them unless it's for a comfort reason, but know you will be changing the sound when you do so."

 

[WILLJS]

The rule for earpads, is don't change them unless it's for a comfort reason, but know you will be changing the sound when you do so."

Do they not recognise that this is the exact purpose for a lot of people changing pads?

 

[gohan2091]

Do they not recognise that this is the exact purpose for a lot of people changing pads?

We both know that but some people might not realise what big impact a pad change can have. They might change the pads purely for a comfort reason and not realise they are also changing how it sounds. The sound change could be deliberate, I guess the guy is just letting me know as I did say to him at the start "I'm an audio newbie".

 

[earmonger]

I'm pretty amazed that a company is engaging on such a direct individual level. And they are advising NOT to spend a bundle on one of their own parts because they don't think it's the right upgrade, which is the opposite of a sales pitch.

What the Meshuggah fan is saying sounds reasonable to me: As long as the pads are comfortable, you should adjust the EQ to your liking. I would take the reviewer with a grain (or spoonful) of salt instead.

 

[WILLJS]

What the Meshuggah fan is saying sounds reasonable to me: As long as the pads are comfortable, you should adjust the EQ to your liking. I would take the reviewer with a grain (or spoonful) of salt instead.

Valid argument, reviewers are more subjective than company reps certainly (plus he likes meshuggah so he must be a reasonable and well cultured kind of guy)

 

[gohan2091]

I'm pretty amazed that a company is engaging on such a direct individual level. And they are advising NOT to spend a bundle on one of their own parts because they don't think it's the right upgrade, which is the opposite of a sales pitch.

What the Meshuggah fan is saying sounds reasonable to me: As long as the pads are comfortable, you should adjust the EQ to your liking. I would take the reviewer with a grain (or spoonful) of salt instead.

This guy is very chatty. We have exchanged several long emails over the past few days, it's refreshing to have a non-robotic and not a copy and paste response.

Unless anyone suggests otherwise, I think I am going to save the money and not go Balanced but stick single-ended and get the Schiit Modi Multibit 2 (whenever UK has stock which seems to be taking forever). I feel my Asgard 3 adds warmth and thickness to the ADX3000 headphones which probably compliments them. If anyone has any other DAC suggestions, feel free to comment.

I've been playing around with EQ settings, definitely improves the headphones but would love to see a professional measured EQ setting (if one exists) that I could tweak. PEQdb.com (after a major tweak) sounds pretty decent.

EDIT: Having a real hard time trying to get Schiit products in the UK. The entire Schiit UK site is almost empty of stock. There is a Bifrost 2/64 available but it's in silver and won't match my black Asgard 3. I am now looking at alternative brands. Topping D70 Octo and Topping Centaurus have my attention. I was looking at the SMSL RAW DAC1 but reviews said it could be a bit too bright for my headphones (yes, I know there are some people who say DACs can't have flavours of sound but many reviewers say it does) My ADX3000 are considered bright I believe and lack a bit of bass.

EDIT 2: I've ordered the Topping Centaurus. It's not a brilliant DAC but it's a good DAC, it has lots of features that I am going to want to use in the future such as built in EQ, NOS mode (for upsampling) and balanced connection. Unfortunately the slightly better Topping D90 III Discrete is £200 more expensive and I can't justify the price. Things like the Cyan 2 are considered better but less feature rich and much higher price in the UK. I got the Topping Centaurus for £719 new from Otik Audio (10% off discount code OTIC_10 if it helps anyone)