Unsure Of My Upgrade Path (R70x)

[gohan2091]

I've owned the Audio Technica ATH-R70x headphones for 9 years along with a Schiit Magni 2 Uber headphone amp and I've been very happy. I listen to a broad range of music, watch movies and I game a lot. 2 months ago my amp broke (my fault) and I am now using a Schiit Asgard 3. I noticed an improvement. I am currently using a Creative X-Fi Titanium HD soundcard as the DAC but thinking of buying a Schiit Modi Mutlibit 2 once the UK has stock. The card is very close to my RTX 4090 GPU and I am hearing interference. I think it's better to get the DAC outside of the PC. (btw I tried a Topping D50iii DAC borrowed from Schiit via USB and experienced the same interference but I had to crank up the volume a lot more to notice it)

My uncle was looking for his first pair of headphones (for mobile use, with a Qudelix 5k) and asked for my help. We both tried the HD650 and we felt it was veiled and a bit boring. He decided to buy the new R70XA and we compared them with my R70X. We used my Asgard 3 amp and his ASUS Essence STX II soundcard. Going back and forth between the X and XA, I noticed immediately there was a lot more detail, clarity and clearness to music with the XA. The X sounded muddled with some tracks. I noticed also that the sound from the XA sounded more "frontal" compared to the X. Overall he decided to keep the R70XA. I like the XA but the X has something I enjoy that's missing from the XA (my uncle agrees). I'm not experienced enough to comment exactly what but the X sounds more "fun". (while I am commenting, we both felt the X's wing headband was more comfortable and a better fit)

To my question. I am looking for headphones that are as fun as the R70X but has the detail and clarity of the XA. Does such thing exist? My Asgard 3 is not balanced. If balanced is the way to go, I could get a Jotunheim 2 but then that Modi Multibit 2 I was eyeing would need to be swapped with something balanced too. Can anyone give me advice on what headphones to look into? My budget is around £1000 but it would have to be a noticeable jump from the R70X for me to spend that much. Or is there anything I can do to improve the detail and clarity of the R70X? I am using Oratory1990 EQ from the PDF in PeaceGUI. I've read mentions of silver cables but they are insanely expensive compared to the cost of the headphones themselves.

 

[dunring]

A solid upgrade is the Hifiman Edition XS and SMSL DL100 or DL200 and run optical cable to eliminate coil whine coming from the PC. Also undervolting your video card will really help, and gives better performance since running at lowest stable voltage it won't run into power or thermal limits as quickly.

 

[earmonger]

I'm another longtime ATH-R70X fan.

Please don't believe the hype on silver (or copper or Mithril) cables. Audio-Technica would not supply a cable that didn't bring out the best in its own headphones.

But to half-contradict myself, you could try a balanced connection for the extra power. Lunashops makes a perfectly suitable balanced cable for <$20. (Unlike the A-T cable, its left and right sides are not interchangeable; they are marked with dots.)
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806228733516.html

On an Ebay whim I recently got an iBasso DC04 Pro, a tiny DAC/amp dongle, which has both 3.5mm and 4.4mm. I've been going back and forth between that and my Liquid Spark headphone amp.

The DC04 Pro with the balanced cable pushes the treble a little more forward, which might give you the fun and detail you're looking for -- and compared to the Liquid Spark, it does push the soundstage a little closer and upfront.

Multiple variables at play here: It might just be the difference between the tunings of the Liquid Spark and DC04 rather than balanced vs. 3.5mm. They're also different with the 3.5mm connection, though the balanced seems to bring out more difference (or that could be placebo effect).

Anyway, it might be worth experimenting with a dongle before doing the big splurge.

 

[gohan2091]

Thanks for the replies both of you. I have now undervolted my 4090 GPU, my wattage dropped. I will test performance later but the guide I am following on Youtube says performance drop is minimal. Unfortunately this has had no effect on the interference sound. Interestingly, I found out just a moment ago that if I unplug the Display Port cable from the back of my PC (that connects to my monitor) the interference noise is completely gone. I've now put ferrite cores on both ends of the Display Port cable but this has not helped. Switching to HDMI cable also didn't help. I've added ferrites to my monitor cables and PC PSU cable, no difference.

If I'm going to go balanced, I would want to get a decent mid range Schiit amp and dac that does balanced rather than buying something cheaper just to experiment with. I may have to sell the Asgard 3 even though it's new. I've been eyeing the HE1000 Stealth but ChatGPT says the Asgard 3 (while able to power it) won't unlock it's full potential.. is that true? same story for the Arya Stealth. I think going balanced just gives me way more flexibility. Perhaps the Jotunheim 2 should be considered? although I hear it's not as warm as the Asgard 3 and more clinical. I guess whatever headphones I buy (or keep if staying with the R70x) would need to be complimentary to this (Having a warm DAC, warm amp and warm headphones as an example may be overly warm).

I think there is a bit of a midunderstanding. To clarify, I find my R70x fun to listen to in comparison to the R70xa. I'm not saying the R70xa is boring (it's not) and it does have way more clarity and detail but something about the R70x sounds more engaging to me. Regarding the R70xa being more "frontal", I am not sure if that is necessarily a good thing to be honest.

I'm not sure if the Hifiman Edition XS would be a large enough upgrade but the HE1000 Stealth would be pretty large. I'll have to do research. I've also been looking at the Focal Clear MG, H800S and Meze 109 Pro. Any thoughts on those compared to the R70x?

 

[earmonger]

ChatGPT says the Asgard 3 (while able to power it) won't unlock it's full potential.. is that true? same story for the Arya Stealth.

It may or may not be true but I wouldn't rely on ChatGPT or other AI for actual facts. They "hallucinate," which is just to say they are glorified Autocorrect.

See if you can get some output specs for the Schiit amps, and the impedance and sensitivity numbers for the headphones. Post them here, and someone who knows the math will probably give you a non-robot answer.

Or use a calculator like this one:
https://www.headphonesty.com/headphone-power-calculator/

 

[gohan2091]

It may or may not be true but I wouldn't rely on ChatGPT or other AI for actual facts. They "hallucinate," which is just to say they are glorified Autocorrect.

See if you can get some output specs for the Schiit amps, and the impedance and sensitivity numbers for the headphones. Post them here, and someone who knows the math will probably give you a non-robot answer.

Or use a calculator like this one:
https://www.headphonesty.com/headphone-power-calculator/

Not entirely sure how to make use of the calculator results to figure things out. The HE1000 Stealth for example has 93db Sensitivity and 32 impedance. The Schiit Asgard 3 stats:
Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, -0.1db, 2Hz-400KHz, -3dB
Maximum Power, 16 ohms: 5W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 3.5W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 2.5W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 600mW RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 300mW RMS per channel
THD: Less than 0.002%, 20Hz-20KHz, at 1V RMS, high gain mode (worst case)
IMD: Less than 0.002%, CCIF at 1V RMS, high gain mode (worst case)
SNR: More than 115db, unweighted, referenced to 1V RMS, in low gain mode
Crosstalk: Less than -82dB, 20Hz-20KHz, 300 ohm load
Output Impedance: Less than 0.2 ohms in high or low gain mode
Input Impedance: 22K ohms
Gain: High = 6 (15.6dB) or Low = 1 (0dB), via rear switch
Frequency Response: 20Hz-20KHz, +/-0.1dB
THD: <0.0008%, 20Hz-20KHz
IMD: <0.0008%, CCIR
S/N: >112dB, referenced to 2V RMS, unweighted
https://www.schiit.co.uk/asgard-3-with-dac

 

[Thomasr]

Interestingly, I found out just a moment ago that if I unplug the Display Port cable from the back of my PC (that connects to my monitor) the interference noise is completely gone.

You've got some kind of ground loop.

 

[gohan2091]

You've got some kind of ground loop.

Perhaps, I've tried lots of things to try solve this but has always ended in failure.

Back to headphones - part of me wants to get a Schiit Modi Multibit 2, see how the R70x sounds, and then, if I want more detail and clarity, explore other headphones while staying single-ended. Another part of me thinks I should sell my Asgard 3, get a Jotunheim 2 and Bifrost 2/64, and run everything balanced, whether it's the R70x or another pair.

I've been looking at the HD800S (which I’d definitely EQ) and the HE1000 Stealth, both of which are priced around the same in the UK from a quick Google search. The HD800S would let me keep my Asgard 3 and stay single-ended, while my research suggests that the HE1000 Stealth really benefits from a better amp and running balanced. The HE1000 Stealth (from what I have read) is the better headphone, but going that route means spending significantly more on gear. A part of me wonders: why would I buy the "inferior" HD800S when I could get the better HE1000 Stealth for around the same price?

 

[pbui44]

Perhaps, I've tried lots of things to try solve this but has always ended in failure.

Back to headphones - part of me wants to get a Schiit Modi Multibit 2, see how the R70x sounds, and then, if I want more detail and clarity, explore other headphones while staying single-ended. Another part of me thinks I should sell my Asgard 3, get a Jotunheim 2 and Bifrost 2/64, and run everything balanced, whether it's the R70x or another pair.

I've been looking at the HD800S (which I’d definitely EQ) and the HE1000 Stealth, both of which are priced around the same in the UK from a quick Google search. The HD800S would let me keep my Asgard 3 and stay single-ended, while my research suggests that the HE1000 Stealth really benefits from a better amp and running balanced. The HE1000 Stealth (from what I have read) is the better headphone, but going that route means spending significantly more on gear. A part of me wonders: why would I buy the "inferior" HD800S when I could get the better HE1000 Stealth for around the same price?

In regards to detail/soundstage combo, the HD800S is more superior than at least the HE-1000 v1 (I have heard both), as with the right source and amp, you can single out a specific violinist from an 50-person orchestra, which notes were a second off, generally what that violinist ate in the last 6-7 hours prior to that performance, etc.

For your upgrade path and budget, it really sounds like you should at least call this retailer or others around you about possibly demoing this:

https://www.audioaffair.co.uk/audio-technica-ath-adx3000-headphones

 

[MindBreak]

I think it is more about the Asgard 3 's sound signature not being the best match for the higher range of the Hifiman lineup (it was my first amp). I haven't tried the Jotunheim 2 but many have touted its versatility (it is also supposed to still have some warmth to it). I was running a Bifrost 2/64 for a while paired with a Mjolnir 3, and it is a very good sub $1k DAC. I have more recently upgraded to its bigger brother though (Yggdrasil MIB). I have tried my Arya Stealth on every setup I have had from Asgard 3 to current setup, and the Asgard 3 while good had the most narrow soundstage, as well as weaker bass response.

If you like the Schiit Audio tuning/house sound then the Jotunheim 2 and Bifrost 2/64 would be your best bet. People are even running Tungsten DS off that combo (granted that will be hitting the upper limits of that stack).

 

[gohan2091]

In regards to detail/soundstage combo, the HD800S is more superior than at least the HE-1000 v1 (I have heard both), as with the right source and amp, you can single out a specific violinist from an 50-person orchestra, which notes were a second off, generally what that violinist ate in the last 6-7 hours prior to that performance, etc.

For your upgrade path and budget, it really sounds like you should at least call this retailer or others around you about possibly demoing this:

https://www.audioaffair.co.uk/audio-technica-ath-adx3000-headphones

I've spent a few hours researching the ADX3000, and I think I’m going to go ahead and order them! I’ve only ever owned two pairs of headphones for PC use - both from Audio-Technica, so makes sense to remain with them. The ADX3000 look fantastic; from what I’ve read, they’re very comfortable, lightweight, and excellent for gaming (which is something I do often). I listen to a lot of different genres of music too. I’m hoping they’ll be like an upgraded R70X. I hear it's wise to put ADX5000 pads on these though to tame the brightness? (not sure where to buy them from, they aren't listed on Audio Technica's spare parts page but I will email them.

I did consider the R70XA, but I want a more significant step up. Plus, going with the ADX3000 means I can keep my Asgard 3, which might actually complement them well since it’s on the warmer side, balancing out their brightness. This also lets me go with the more affordable Modi Multibit 2 instead of the Bifrost 2/64, saving some money in the long run.

I found them for £859.00 at Audio Affair, and with the aud5vip discount code, I get £42.95 off with free delivery. I know I could spend a few hundred more for the HE1000 Stealth (Audio Affair has them opened boxed for £969.00), which I know is the better headphone, but to really get the most of them, I’d need a more powerful amp and a higher-end balanced DAC. That’s an upgrade I might consider in a few years.

@MindBreak, thanks for your input! If I go with the ADX3000, I think keeping the Asgard 3 makes the most sense and skipping the Jotunheim 2 since I won’t need balanced output right now. From my research, the Jotunheim isn’t classed as warm, and a warmer amp should help tame the ADX3000’s brightness. As for the DAC, I’m leaning toward the Modi Multibit 2 over the Bifrost 2/64 since it’s half the price and I don’t need a balanced connection. If you think that’s a mistake, let me know.

 

[pbui44]

The closest to the stock ATH-ADX5000 alcantara ear pads is this:

https://kopfhoererboutique.com/products/yaxi-a2000z-ad2000x-comfort-earpads

 

[gohan2091]

The closest to the stock ATH-ADX5000 alcantara ear pads is this:

https://kopfhoererboutique.com/products/yaxi-a2000z-ad2000x-comfort-earpads

You're confident or believe fitting the AD2000x pads to the ADX3000 will help improve the headphones? Perhaps I should try the stock pads first before buying these or if you're confident, I guess I could order some and do some comparisons (assuming they are easy to put on/take off). Do these definitely fit? There are also these: https://www.brainwavzaudio.com/coll.../headphone-memory-foam-earpads-xl-size-velour someone said it transformed their AD2000x stock pads but no ADX series headphone is listed as compatible.

 

[WILLJS]

You're confident or believe fitting the AD2000x pads to the ADX3000 will help improve the headphones? Perhaps I should try the stock pads first before buying these or if you're confident, I guess I could order some and do some comparisons (assuming they are easy to put on/take off). Do these definitely fit? There are also these: https://www.brainwavzaudio.com/coll.../headphone-memory-foam-earpads-xl-size-velour someone said it transformed their AD2000x stock pads but no ADX series headphone is listed as compatible.

that depends on what you mean by improve of course.

 

[gohan2091]

that depends on what you mean by improve of course.

True. I mean the known flaws of the ADX3000 (too bright, lacks a bit of bass and something about the 4k band). Apparently, ADX5000 pads help reduce the brightness. If the AD2000x pads do that (and fit) I would consider them, or the Brain Wavz pads (but headphones aren't listed as compatible)