[Zacchino]

Hello everyone!

I'm new to this forum and usually post on GearSlutz.com, a similar high-end audio engineering topic Forum you might have heard of.

I'm currently working with the classical Sony MDR-7506, which I find great but only because my ears are used to it (about 8 years). Now I start to realize I should try some other heardphones, just for the sake of my mixes.

What I'm looking for : more realistic without sounding "clinical", that don't give me any translation issue when I switch to my mid-field Monitors, and that can potentially be used as reference audio source for a great mix.

My price range was $300-500, so I started asking the professionals behind the HeadRoom website who suggested (along with other great advices) the well-known open-back AKG K702 according to my requirements.

Yet, a year ago in L.A. I heard the closed-back Ultrasone Pro750 and was really amazed by their S-Logic technology, but not quite conviced by its mix-translation fidelity potential so I decided not to rush on it... Until they released the Ultrasone Pro 900 that got really good reviews, even on this forum.

My issue is that I have NO access to either of them, so I would need people with some good mix experience to be my ears, and help me out deciding which one suits my needs the best :

- Ultrasone Pro 900 have this S-Logic technology with this surround-like feel like with real monitors
- AKG K702 have these detailed mid and upper-mid ranges that I never had in my 7506
= Both of them have an impressive bass reproduction according to the tests I've read.

Now,
Did anyone ever had the chance to hear / compare both of them ?

Thanks for your time, and for sharing your passion!
- Z.

 

[Acix]

Check here for more info: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/k702-studio-393139/

 

[Zacchino]

Alright so I just came back from my local store, and heard the Pro900...

Damn those Bass !!! IMO they reproduce what nowdays' common 2.1 listeners setup. Alot of people are now buying home theaters with a sub. As they're becoming cheaper and cheaper. Also, most of the "hi-fi" is leaning toward bass-forward EQs.

The first impression you have with these cans is that they "scatter" the sound. Even with highly compressed / limited / +12db mastering music, you can clearly say "alright these violins were recorded in a studio, these drums are definitely not live drums, this reverb is cheap". It just analyses your music instead of just rendering it. Something which I love.

The issue is, there is too much "air". the "highs" are too present. I guess that with a little mod this issue is gone... Or isn't it ?


I also had the chance to hear the semi-open Sennheiser HD-650... Wow. Impressive, but IMO they will never help me make a good mix. They're just pleasing your mix, telling you "you're the best" instead of "you should definitely add a dynamic EQ on this bass, it's leaking / and work these mids".

I still didn't have the chance to hear the AKG K702 though...

Any comment here ?

 

[Shike]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zacchino /img/forum/go_quote.gif Alright so I just came back from my local store, and heard the Pro900... Damn those Bass !!! IMO they reproduce what nowdays' common 2.1 listeners setup. Alot of people are now buying home theaters with a sub. As they're becoming cheaper and cheaper. Also, most of the "hi-fi" is leaning toward bass-forward EQs. The first impression you have with these cans is that they "scatter" the sound. Even with highly compressed / limited / +12db mastering music, you can clearly say "alright these violins were recorded in a studio, these drums are definitely not live drums, this reverb is cheap". It just analyses your music instead of just rendering it. Something which I love. The issue is, there is too much "air". the "highs" are too present. I guess that with a little mod this issue is gone... Or isn't it ? I also had the chance to hear the semi-open Sennheiser HD-650... Wow. Impressive, but IMO they will never help me make a good mix. They're just pleasing your mix, telling you "you're the best" instead of "you should definitely add a dynamic EQ on this bass, it's leaking / and work these mids". I still didn't have the chance to hear the AKG K702 though... Any comment here ?

Not sure where you're located. Do you have a Guitar Center near you? Try the K701's there if you can as they're basically the K702 without the detachable cable.

 

[Zacchino]

Err no.. No GC in France (as far as I know they didn't go international).

Have you heard'em ?

 

[rds]

Yep, all the sennheisers I've heard would be totally useless for mixing. That's the idea though, they make bad recordings sound better. Considering that the majority of audiophiles seem to preferentially listen to poorly recorded pop music that makes sense.

I really like the Pro 900 too, but they are DJ phones rather than mixing phones. Makes a lot of sense too: If you're DJing you want your phones to be boosted in the bass and highs to overcome the background noise, and mid-centric reverb from the speakers.

The k701 are definitely mixing phones. Super detailed with a near ruler flat frequency response, these phones won't let you get away with anything. As a result they also sound amazing with good recordings (think classical).

PS I own the Pro 900, k701 and Sennheiser hd650

 

[oqvist]

I own both.

HD 650 is as mentioned way to forgiving they don´t show the recording as it´s it´s trying to cover the story up and make some hollywood version I suppose.

As for Pro 900 was they burned in in the store? highs is what comes last so that may fix it. Also you could KeeS mod them if you want to reduce the bass some which supposedly also help with the highs

I like them a lot better then the K701 though as of late the 435S impressed me quite a bit. If you want something even more natural sounding while still being very well balanced may be an alternative. As for soundstage it´s still 900 for me though.

 

[Zacchino]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rds /img/forum/go_quote.gif I really like the Pro 900 too, but they are DJ phones rather than mixing phones.

That's a what I was thinking about Ultrasone's Pro line... It's weird that their actual Pro line, supposed to be for the studios, could be a great DJ product line (knowing they ALSO have a DJ headphones line).

Quote:

Originally Posted by rds /img/forum/go_quote.gif The k701 are definitely mixing phones. Super detailed with a near ruler flat frequency response, these phones won't let you get away with anything. As a result they also sound amazing with good recordings (think classical).

I never had the chance to listen to them. They do sound like what you're describing though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rds /img/forum/go_quote.gif PS I own the Pro 900, k701 and Sennheiser hd650

Then you're the man of the situation! Don't you agree that the Pro 900, althought they're bass / air boosted, have this capacity to "scatter" your mix for better analysis ?

 

[Zacchino]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oqvist /img/forum/go_quote.gif HD 650 [...] are trying to cover the story up and make some hollywood version I suppose.

LOL that's exactly what I thought. Don't get me wrong, these cans ARE wonderful to enjoy your music.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oqvist /img/forum/go_quote.gif As for Pro 900 was they burned in in the store? highs is what comes last so that may fix it.

You've got a good point. They were straight out of the box, no burn in. Does it really make a DRASTIC difference on the Highs ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by oqvist /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also you could KeeS mod them if you want to reduce the bass some which supposedly also help with the highs

That's for sure. If I buy these cans I'll definitely "Kees" mod them. But it's not reassuring to think that €460 headphone still have to be modded... Have you done this mod ? Does it correct their flaws (bass leak/rumble, air too present) ? If it does then it might be the one I'll go for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oqvist /img/forum/go_quote.gif [...] though as of late the 435S impressed me quite a bit. If you want something even more natural sounding while still being very well balanced may be an alternative.

Oh I'll definitely have a look at these now that you mention them.

So for the soundstage, the Pro900 are an all-over winner... You'd prefer them to the K701 for mixing I assume, can you please tell us for which reason(s)?

Thank you OgVist.

 

[Zacchino]

OgVist,

In your latter post, when you said 435s, where you talking about the Sennheiser HD 435 ? I guess not... Cuz I can't find any AKG with the 435s reference...

 

[yepyep_]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zacchino /img/forum/go_quote.gif OgVist, In your latter post, when you said 435s, where you talking about the Sennheiser HD 435 ? I guess not... Cuz I can't find any AKG with the 435s reference...

GMP 435 S - GermanMAESTRO Shop

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/ger...ssions-447842/

Also, check out http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/ger...rogram-447840/

 

[Zacchino]

Oh he was talking about the GMP...

The issue is that I'm more interested in closed-back HP... I was comparing the 702 with the PRO900 because I think they have the same "soundstage" range. But if it was up to me I would definitely go with closed-back.

 

[haloxt]

I thought ultrasone was trying to trick people who mix music to lower the bass on bass-bloated pop songs. But rds' explanation makes more sense come to think of it

.

 

[oqvist]

Zucchini

if they where straight from the box with no burn in they will grow like crazy on you. They should sound pretty awful really on first listen. Guess it´s something with the ultra stiff titanium drivers or something but they are infamous for their burn in requirements

KeeS modding did remove the bass resonances or rumble I could get yes. As for bass you can´t quite get it down to K701 level on the same amp but pretty close. I don´t run the full mod though so the highs aren´t affected that much it´s primarily the bass it affects the most. As for air problem I don´t know what you referr to? Pro 900 is very airy for being closed but not quite as airy as the K701. Not as airy as the 435S either though the bigger soundstaging kind of fools you thinking it´s. If you want them more forward you can plug the middle hole. Supposed to help reduce ev sibilance but I found it killed soundstaging to much.

K701 if you aren´t careful with your system matching surely can feel to airy for me often.Pro 900 is of course not 100 % accurate either we are talking headphones after all but they are the closest to my speaker presentation when using neo 6 music surround mode in particular

As for mixing I do find the 900 just as revealing as the K701. It certainly is more unforgiving then the K701 it will scream sibilance at you and make your head feels like splitting if you use to much stereo separation. there is nothing wrong with the bass or treble extension either very full on both headphones.

 

[mastersheep]

Where did you try PRO900 in France ?
I'm very interested !!
Thanks for answering amis audiophile