Ultimate Ears In-Ear Reference Monitors Review
Feb 10, 2015 at 2:47 AM Post #676 of 733
Found a comparison on the UERM that I thought was interesting and wanted ya'll to chime in:
 
http://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/2v9gpm/ultimate_ears_reference_monitors_ciem_impressions/
 
 
That whole subreddit is an interesting collection of "look at my new toy" and total misunderstanding, so be careful how long you hang out. 
 
Feb 10, 2015 at 11:19 AM Post #677 of 733
  Found a comparison on the UERM that I thought was interesting and wanted ya'll to chime in:
 
http://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/2v9gpm/ultimate_ears_reference_monitors_ciem_impressions/
 
 
That whole subreddit is an interesting collection of "look at my new toy" and total misunderstanding, so be careful how long you hang out. 

 
I think zowki is high when he calls the UERM warm.  Sorry...mine do not sound "warm" and he goes on about bass extension....meh.  To my ears, these are pretty darn neutral.  They're good but not great for me, personally...meaning they don't move me.  They are good at reproduction and I figure that's what they're marketed as so I can't complain about that.  I could use a bit more soul, but that's a personal thing.  I just wouldn't ever describe them as warm.   I'm thinking alternate universe when I read that reddit exchanges.
 
Thanks for sharing.
 
HS 
 
Feb 10, 2015 at 12:18 PM Post #678 of 733
  Found a comparison on the UERM that I thought was interesting and wanted ya'll to chime in:
 
http://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/2v9gpm/ultimate_ears_reference_monitors_ciem_impressions/
 
 
That whole subreddit is an interesting collection of "look at my new toy" and total misunderstanding, so be careful how long you hang out. 

Zowki, the author, didn't mention which device he plugged his IEMs into.
Especially IEMs with multiple BA transducers don't have a flat impedance response and therefore their tonality gets bent when connected to devices with higher output impedance.
Multi BA IEMs need a low output resistance (the closer to 0 Ohms the better) to sound "correct".
 
The ER-4S has got a pretty flat impedance response, meaning it's sound signature will only be slightly bent on sources with rather high impedance.
In addition, Etymotic soldered a (100?) Ohms resistor into the cable to provide better source matching.
 
I personally do own the UERM and ER-4s (among other IEMs) and definitely can't agree with zowki.
To me, both IEMs sound quite identical up to ~2kHz.
 
Feb 10, 2015 at 2:02 PM Post #679 of 733
   
I think zowki is high when he calls the UERM warm.  Sorry...mine do not sound "warm" and he goes on about bass extension....meh.  To my ears, these are pretty darn neutral.  They're good but not great for me, personally...meaning they don't move me.  They are good at reproduction and I figure that's what they're marketed as so I can't complain about that.  I could use a bit more soul, but that's a personal thing.  I just wouldn't ever describe them as warm.   I'm thinking alternate universe when I read that reddit exchanges.
 
Thanks for sharing.
 
HS 

It's not warm sounding, and doesn't have as much bass "extension," as others that I've heard. But, I do see that it is compared to ER4 for bass, which is pretty poor comparison of bass since ER4 is thin when it comes to bass.  By graphs, NT-6 has inclines at the subbass region, and audibly that can be "felt" as well in comparison to the UERM, and outputs more when the track has it, which the UERM doesn't change as much in bass with bass rich tracks. But, that doesn't mean UERM doesn't have sufficient bass. Where NT6 inclines slightly toward the sub bass region, the UERM starts to decline a bit after the mid bass, a slight hump there.
 
If I didn't own another CIEM, I probably would not have a basis to notice if UERM is warm in reference to my NT6. It is not warm, the treble is emphasized from what I'm hearing.  It is not as neutral as what people maybe expecting.  But, it is not as colored or as uneven like many that are out there.
 
Feb 10, 2015 at 2:19 PM Post #680 of 733
  It's not warm sounding, and doesn't have as much bass "extension," as others that I've heard. But, I do see that it is compared to ER4 for bass, which is pretty poor comparison of bass since ER4 is thin when it comes to bass.  By graphs, NT-6 has inclines at the subbass region, and audibly that can be "felt" as well in comparison to the UERM, and outputs more when the track has it, which the UERM doesn't change as much in bass with bass rich tracks. But, that doesn't mean UERM doesn't have sufficient bass. Where NT6 inclines slightly toward the sub bass region, the UERM starts to decline a bit after the mid bass, a slight hump there.
 
If I didn't own another CIEM, I probably would not have a basis to notice if UERM is warm in reference to my NT6. It is not warm, the treble is emphasized from what I'm hearing.  It is not as neutral as what people maybe expecting.  But, it is not as colored or as uneven like many that are out there.

 
Good comparison.  Thanks.
 
I highlighted a good point you made that I didn't cover.  The UERM's are plentiful in the highs IMO as well.  Fortunately, I have not had any sibilance out of them thus far.  I don't do well with peaky/harsh highs and is why I would never purchase say an HD 800, wide soundstage or not.  
 
HS
 
Feb 10, 2015 at 2:43 PM Post #681 of 733
   
Good comparison.  Thanks.
 
I highlighted a good point you made that I didn't cover.  The UERM's are plentiful in the highs IMO as well.  Fortunately, I have not had any sibilance out of them thus far.  I don't do well with peaky/harsh highs and is why I would never purchase say an HD 800, wide soundstage or not.  
 
HS

Well, I hear that if the recording is not done well, a transparent headphone will make it sound rough.  Not complete truth to this.  If the track has sibilance, and if the treble is not smooth, the sibilance can sound a bit rough around the edges since it's not smooth.  Smooth could mean many things I know, but in the iems world it means is it a bit rough and textured or smooth or thin sounding treble.  How do we know if a headphones is transparent?  Yes, some can represent better than other based on how we perceive the output of the headphones, but since headphones are transducters and they will vary in their characteristics, they will have different outputs.  Some do have obvious flaws, but UERM is great sounding, and this talk is just nit picking.  People should be happy with the product.  Also, many think that the culprit of how the headphone output is goes all the way down to the DAC, but if you compare iems, there is much more difference than what people think a Sabre chip would sound like. 
 
I find that the UERM has that characteristic of the HD800.  Since there are various opinions on whether it is harsh or not, I take it that it vary depends on people's ear type and possibly there could be transducer differences.  Some ears are more sensitive to certain peaky frequencies than other I believe as you have differing opinioins on certain headphones sounding peaky.
 
You got to test out the UERM with non-audiofile recordings, like badly recorded pop vocals as example to see how bad it can get.
 
Feb 10, 2015 at 3:05 PM Post #682 of 733
   
I think zowki is high when he calls the UERM warm.  Sorry...mine do not sound "warm" and he goes on about bass extension....meh.  To my ears, these are pretty darn neutral.  They're good but not great for me, personally...meaning they don't move me.  They are good at reproduction and I figure that's what they're marketed as so I can't complain about that.  I could use a bit more soul, but that's a personal thing.  I just wouldn't ever describe them as warm.   I'm thinking alternate universe when I read that reddit exchanges.
 
Thanks for sharing.
 
HS 

 
 
 
  Zowki, the author, didn't mention which device he plugged his IEMs into.
Especially IEMs with multiple BA transducers don't have a flat impedance response and therefore their tonality gets bent when connected to devices with higher output impedance.
Multi BA IEMs need a low output resistance (the closer to 0 Ohms the better) to sound "correct".
 
The ER-4S has got a pretty flat impedance response, meaning it's sound signature will only be slightly bent on sources with rather high impedance.
In addition, Etymotic soldered a (100?) Ohms resistor into the cable to provide better source matching.
 
I personally do own the UERM and ER-4s (among other IEMs) and definitely can't agree with zowki.
To me, both IEMs sound quite identical up to ~2kHz.

 
Interesting theory. It would explain why it sounds so 'wonky'
 
 
I owned the ER4 a long time ago and really didn't like them. Even though the UERM are designed to be "flat" and many people call them "boring", I find them to be quite engaging. I really get drawn into the tonality of instruments and vocals with these.
 
Feb 10, 2015 at 3:11 PM Post #683 of 733
  Well, I hear that if the recording is not done well, a transparent headphone will make it sound rough.  Not complete truth to this.  If the track has sibilance, and if the treble is not smooth, the sibilance can sound a bit rough around the edges since it's not smooth.  Smooth could mean many things I know, but in the iems world it means is it a bit rough and textured or smooth or thin sounding treble.  How do we know if a headphones is transparent?  Yes, some can represent better than other based on how we perceive the output of the headphones, but since headphones are transducters and they will vary in their characteristics, they will have different outputs.  Some do have obvious flaws, but UERM is great sounding, and this talk is just nit picking.  People should be happy with the product.  Also, many think that the culprit of how the headphone output is goes all the way down to the DAC, but if you compare iems, there is much more difference than what people think a Sabre chip would sound like. 
 
I find that the UERM has that characteristic of the HD800.  Since there are various opinions on whether it is harsh or not, I take it that it vary depends on people's ear type and possibly there could be transducer differences.  Some ears are more sensitive to certain peaky frequencies than other I believe as you have differing opinioins on certain headphones sounding peaky.
 
You got to test out the UERM with non-audiofile recordings, like badly recorded pop vocals as example to see how bad it can get.

 
 
I don't own HD800's, but do own the 650's and 700's as well as other sets of headphones (e.g. a pair of electrostatics).  Some are forgiving and some less so on the highs and generally of poorer recordings and some of those are still pretty darn resolving.  
 
To your point of poor recordings, mostly I've been listening to streaming FLAC files but also mp3 files of some older stuff (> Beresford DAC > Woo amp with SE output for IEM's).  For example, last night I was listening to a bunch of Jimmy Smith's (mostly Bluenote stuff from back in the day...maybe a bit of his Verve stuff) and all of it was mp3 quality and some of the recordings...well, let's just say fair.  I was using the UERM's as I'm trying to get used to them (not the most comfortable at first but I'm hoping it's just my ears adapting and I won't have to get them adjusted).  They definitely let me know the quality of the recording, but not terribly so.  I'll try some 80's stuff now that you've piqued my interest and see how ugly it gets.
 
It's early for me, but overall I'd say the UERM's are OK.  Nothing to write home about for me, personally, from a sound perspective.  I'm hoping I get to where I enjoy wearing them more so I make use of them.  Comfort is critical for me and why I have not ventured out into heavy headphone territory.
 
HS
 
Feb 10, 2015 at 3:13 PM Post #684 of 733
Also here was the EQ he says he uses with the UERM
 

 
 
and here's the first result for "UERM Frequency response"
 

 
 
I wonder if he looked at the graph and said "look there's a peak" and convinced himself he was hearing it. 
 
Feb 10, 2015 at 6:30 PM Post #685 of 733
  I owned the ER4 a long time ago and really didn't like them. 

There is so much hype to them, and it's from those that have not run into better performing monitors is my guess.  Only reason I got them was the hype with the reference curve graph. Supposedly, it's accurate according to it's fans which I disagree with. I tried to enjoy them because of the reason, but not a favorite of the universals I've tried.  
 
Feb 10, 2015 at 7:24 PM Post #686 of 733
With red filters, the ER-4S sounds quite good above 200 hz. Below 200 hz needs some EQ help. I for one loved the S treble. It's quite good imo. Overall though, I definitley prefer the performance of the UERM.
 
Feb 11, 2015 at 3:33 AM Post #687 of 733
Keeping in mind that the ER-4S only has got one BA transducer, its performance is stunning and propably the best sounding BA based IEM with a single transducer.
Nonetheless there are plenty of 2-way-2-driver IEMs out there surpassing the ER-4S.
 

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