[Borat]

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Originally Posted by EyeAmEye /img/forum/go_quote.gif My beef with Royce is that as soon as the competition was getting wise to GJJ, he disappeared from true MMA events.

At least he returned to fight Sakuraba in that epic 2000 fight. That wasn't a gimme by any stretch. Saku holds victories over Carlos Newton, Guy Mezger, and Quinton Jackson.

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By smarter match making, are you saying they should have shelved Chuck until December? If so, that's one avenue, even though that is still protecting a fighter who may not deserve the spot they are saving him for.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Keith Jardine did nothing to deserve this fight. Chuck Liddell had a long string of title defenses and beaten Randy Couture (2x), Tito Ortiz (2x), Babalu Sobral (2x), Belfort, etc. What did Jardine do?

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Bumming out fans is the result of building a celebrity, not what occurs in the octagon.

Yeah, I know. I'm just saying nobody gave a crap about Keith Jardine, and rightfully so. Maybe they will now, but I doubt it. You cannot promote big marquee fights involving Keith Jardine. He does not have the personality of a Rampage or the fanbase of a Tito Ortiz. When Chuck lost to Rampage, the effects were lessened by the fact that Quinton has a magnetic personality and sense of humor. He only fought two fights in the UFC at that point and was already a fan fave.

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Holding Chuck off until December is creating a bogus superfight

How is this bogus? Like I said above, there is no rigid system in place that determines fights. There would be no reason to complain about setting up Chuck/Wand at that point, especially with each coming off losses in title defenses for UFC and PRIDE respectively. Actually, that makes it even more perfect.

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I didn't comment on the heirachy you suggested before and I meant to. I'm all for a heirarchy if a true heirarchy exists. It's painfully obvious now that it simply doesn't, so establishing a heirarchy at this point would be artificial.

I'm not talking establishing a hierarchy by "working" fights or giving guys tomato cans if that's what you interpreted that as. It was just an observation that it doesn't feel like a sport lately when every underdog is winning. In sports, generally the better skilled team/athlete wins. Sure, there are upsets here and there, but nothing like what's happening currently in mixed martial arts.

 

[rlanger]

Surprised that no one is talking about Thiago Tavares vs. Tyson Griffin, which was, IMHO, the fight of the night.

Griffin really showed the skills of a contender in that fight. He will probably get a shot at a top 5 opponent in the lightweight division in his next matchup. Would love to see him fight KenFlo.

 

[EyeAmEye]

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Originally Posted by Borat /img/forum/go_quote.gif At least he returned to fight Sakuraba in that epic 2000 fight. That wasn't a gimme by any stretch. Saku holds victories over Carlos Newton, Guy Mezger, and Quinton Jackson. That's exactly what I'm saying. Keith Jardine did nothing to deserve this fight. Chuck Liddell had a long string of title defenses and beaten Randy Couture (2x), Tito Ortiz (2x), Babalu Sobral (2x), Belfort, etc. What did Jardine do? Yeah, I know. I'm just saying nobody gave a crap about Keith Jardine, and rightfully so. Maybe they will now, but I doubt it. You cannot promote big marquee fights involving Keith Jardine. He does not have the personality of a Rampage or the fanbase of a Tito Ortiz. When Chuck lost to Rampage, the effects were lessened by the fact that Quinton has a magnetic personality and sense of humor. He only fought two fights in the UFC at that point and was already a fan fave. How is this bogus? Like I said above, there is no rigid system in place that determines fights. There would be no reason to complain about setting up Chuck/Wand at that point, especially with each coming off losses in title defenses for UFC and PRIDE respectively. Actually, that makes it even more perfect. I'm not talking establishing a hierarchy by "working" fights or giving guys tomato cans if that's what you interpreted that as. It was just an observation that it doesn't feel like a sport lately when every underdog is winning. In sports, generally the better skilled team/athlete wins. Sure, there are upsets here and there, but nothing like what's happening currently in mixed martial arts.

I see what you're getting at, but can't agree with it. I always see it as where you are now, not where you were. Doesn't matter how many wins or against who, it should be about constantly having to prove your spot, and Chuck couldn't do that. Special treatment for past accomplishments is why Ken Shamrock keeps disgracing the octagon.

Jardine didn't have to earn the fight against Liddell. It was Liddell's fight to prove he could get back on track and earn a chance to fight for the title again. He couldn't, so Jardine earned the right to move up in the ranks.

 

[floydenheimer]

Poor Jardine, he goes out and beats the 2 most popular light heavies in the UFC and gets no love. If Alexander hadn't KO'd him I think he'd be in line for a title shot, where does he go from here though?

 

[Borat]

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Originally Posted by EyeAmEye /img/forum/go_quote.gif I see what you're getting at, but can't agree with it. I always see it as where you are now, not where you were. Doesn't matter how many wins or against who, it should be about constantly having to prove your spot, and Chuck couldn't do that.

Chuck lost one time in the last 4 years. He shouldn't have to climb the ladder again or prove anything to anyone. This is like saying Chuck has to fight every single 205 lb'er that the UFC has before earning the right to fight Rampage again for the title. If it really worked like this, we would never have any meaningful fights. The margin for error in MMA is so small and the top fighters can't always beat everyone. But you give guys like Chuck the credit to keep competing against those top stars because they've earned it.

Why weren't you complaining when they gave Randy Couture a heavyweight title shot right off the bat after not competing at that weight class in 5 years? And coming off of a loss to Liddell in his last appearance in the octagon.

Same reason I wasn't complaining. Because he's Randy Couture!

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Special treatment for past accomplishments is why Ken Shamrock keeps disgracing the octagon.

C'mon man. Bad analogy. Ken Shamrock never did anything close to what Liddell accomplished. And honestly, I didn't really see any special treatment for him as much as I saw that as a treat for the guys he was fighting. Shamrock was a gatekeeper. The only reason he had PPV billing was because of the "bitter rivalry" with Tito Ortiz. The fans ate that up.

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Jardine didn't have to earn the fight against Liddell. It was Liddell's fight to prove he could get back on track and earn a chance to fight for the title again. He couldn't, so Jardine earned the right to move up in the ranks.

I wasn't saying Chuck should've got an immediate shot at Rampage right after losing to him. But he shouldn't have to waste precious time fighting TUF alumni. This is Chuck Liddell. Been competing in the UFC since 1998 and he's now 37 years old. It (was) now or never. What a wasted opportunity.

 

[Borat]

Randy Couture resigned from the UFC today. Story here:

http://thefightnetwork.com/news_detail.php?nid=5085

In an interview with Josh Gross of Sherdog.com, Couture stated:

"The motivation for the decision is two-fold," he continued. "I know Fedor (Emelianenko) just signed with another organization and that's the only real fight that makes sense for me at 44 years old as the heavyweight champion of the UFC. That's the fight I wanted and if that can't happen it doesn't make sense for me to compete with all these other guys. And then obviously that's not going to happen now. And, two, I'm tired of being taken advantage of, played as the nice guy and basically swimming against the current with the management of the UFC. I have a lot of other things going on in my life that I'm doing just fine with. I don't need the problems. I don't feel like I get the respect I deserve from the organization, and that's motivation No. 2 for the letter of resignation that was sent today."

I can't believe the UFC management jerked him around. That's insane. He's the best ambassador for the sport and the most admired fighter. Pay the man his money.

If you didn't hear, Fedor chose to sign with the M-1 Fight Organization based in Russia. Reportedly, the UFC would not allow Fedor to continue fighting in combat sambo tournaments in his country and that was the sticking point.

This entire situation sucks all around.

 

[Walie]

Dana White's ego is getting bigger than his shiny head

 

[tek]

hrmm..has the interest in UFC died in here after the loss by Liddell, the treatment of Couture and the failure to acquire Fedor?

Anyway I just managed to catch UFC77 the other day and I just can't get enough of Anderson Silva. Even though Rich Franklin delayed his beating for a few more minutes this time, there was no doubting that Silva would walk away from Franklin's backyard and retain his title. Those knees are just wicked. The rest of the fights in 77 was just ok. Brandon Vera was sort of disappointing against Tim Silvia. Jorge Gurgel was also disappointing. But I just can't get enough of Anderson Silva. Him and Takanori Gomi is definitely my favourite MMA fighters

 

[EyeAmEye]

Not sure what Couture's beef really is, since UFC has provided cancelled checks to back up their claims that Couture received every penny he was promised. I have lost a lot of respect for him lying about not being paid. Dana White may have an ego and may/may not be hard to deal with, but he's apparently been straight up with Couture on this one.

 

[Tone Def]

Any comments on the liddell vs. silva fight?

 

[KinesongPayaso]

just another of those conspiracy ring fighters not comfy in the octagon, or getting paid to lose or w/e

shogun, wandy... im pretty sure there was another good pride fighter who did crap in his first ufc fight

 

[EyeAmEye]

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Originally Posted by KinesongPayaso /img/forum/go_quote.gif just another of those conspiracy ring fighters not comfy in the octagon, or getting paid to lose or w/e shogun, wandy... im pretty sure there was another good pride fighter who did crap in his first ufc fight

You're not seriously making the suggestion they were getting paid to lose, are you?

What's really happening is that guys from Pride and other organizations were highly overrated, and it's showing in UFC.

Fedor was the smart one, and signed with M1 so he can beat up garbage competition.

 

[laxx]

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Originally Posted by EyeAmEye /img/forum/go_quote.gif You're not seriously making the suggestion they were getting paid to lose, are you? What's really happening is that guys from Pride and other organizations were highly overrated, and it's showing in UFC. Fedor was the smart one, and signed with M1 so he can beat up garbage competition.

I don't think that's right. I think the transition from Pride to UFC is what's holding them back. For someone like Shogun, no kicks while the guy's down affects his fighting style alot. I think they just need to adjust.

 

[EyeAmEye]

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Originally Posted by laxx /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't think that's right. I think the transition from Pride to UFC is what's holding them back. For someone like Shogun, no kicks while the guy's down affects his fighting style alot. I think they just need to adjust.

I can accept that, it's quite possible, but I do believe that most people had assumed Pride was always the better organization, I myself did as well. Time will ultimately tell.

Shogun-Liddell is on for UFC84, btw.

 

[Roam]

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Originally Posted by EyeAmEye /img/forum/go_quote.gif What's really happening is that guys from Pride and other organizations were highly overrated, and it's showing in UFC.

I guess that's why Anderson Silva, Quinton "Rampage" Jackson, and Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira are respectively the UFC middleweight, light heavyweight and heavyweight title holders. 3 out of 5 title belts in the UFC are held by fighters who came in from Pride & other organizations.