[FYJX]

UE4's. You'll definitely get a better fit. Sound quality wise, i would think they are very similar as the Ue4's are more neutral, while the Triple Fi's are High bumped. But i'm saying go with the UE4's, as Fit=Sound quality as well.

 

[Nar1117]

Yeah, it all really comes down to how much you're willing to pay.

Which is why threads like these are becoming more prevalent, as the price line between universals and custom blurs. No longer is there a distinction between custom and universal in terms of *just* quality. Now, we have to distinguish between "low end" and "high end" custom.

The lowest prices custom is around like $130, am I right? I think the Sleek takes the cake for that. The highest price for a custom (that's well known) is the UE11, at nearly $1200. Between those prices lie a wealth of options for those looking to go custom. So many companies to consider. That's nearly $1000 of spread.

For universals, the spread is around half that, maybe even less. I'm not speaking from experience here, but I would imagine that the spread of quality across the universals is greater than the same spread across the custom market. All the earphones in question are using the same basic drivers (im not splitting hairs here), but when you eliminate variables like fit and isolation by going custom, you end up with reviews that focus more on SQ than over-all performance. For instance, say there are two universal earphones being reviewed. Earphone A gets great reviews on SQ, and earphone B has better reviews on comfort. If the difference is great enough, earphone B will be better rated because of its comfort level.

Now, take all that away because all customs will fit you the same, and generally have the same isolation. The differences come in SQ. So, by this logic, when you go custom, you're paying for better everything... fit, SQ, isolation... experience.

If it were me, I would go with the UE4. I don't think the extra driver of the TF10pro warrants the hassle of a universal, plus, since it's universal, you might sacrifice sound quality, making it comparable to a 2-driver, and thus, why not get a custom?

 

[Bilavideo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyro /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can't understand how a foam or comply wouldn't already provide the best fit and isolation. It completely fills your ear canal accordingly to it's shape. What more does a custom do?

I think you're absolutely right. There is definitely a "cool" factor involved in having a custom-fit IEM, but soundwise, if the fit is snug, I'm at a loss for how the custom sounds better. Furthermore, it's kinda laughable that people are willing to trash the Triple Fi's three-driver design (as a gimmick) in order to justify the claim that a $200 Super Fi 5 sounds better as a $400 UE 4 because it's "custom."

On this issue, I'd take a page from Westone. I own the W3 and the UM3X, both of which deliver an awesome presentation. Westone doesn't make you buy their ES3X to go custom. It offers the M56 tips for less than $120. Now THAT's the way you do it. Kudos to Westone which doesn't have to preen like a supermodel. If I want the "custom" experience with Westone, all I have to do is order the M56 tips. Why haven't I? Because (God, I love this) Westone makes IEMs that fit so well, it feels like a waste of time to worry about it. My UM3X fits so snug I can't imagine how much better a custom tip would fit. The W3 is even more so, though - because of its size - it's not as sleek a fit. Westone doesn't push for customs the way UE/Logitech does. The ES3X is pretty much it, and - to its everlasting credit - Westone offers the M56 tips to serve an obvious market for customs. But honestly, the fit off the W3 and UM3X is so easy and so complete, I can't imagine a huge number of Westone buyers rushing to go custom. Westone's smart marketing move, in offering custom tips (for less than $120) stands in stark contrast to UE's game of steering consumers to customs.

It's hard not see this "customs" obsession as insecurity and anxiety over nothing. To be sure, if we all had a grand to toss around for UE10s, we might not be having this conversation. But I have to laugh when people assume that a custom is, per se, better than a properly fitted universal. It may well be that the three-driver design is a gimmick, just like an "integrated passiver crossover" the size of a baby's fingernail. It may well be that a single driver can do just fine. But to jump to that conclusion, in the effort to prop up a $200 IEM being sold for $400, is a measure of how quickly our egoes get drawn into these debates.

 

[Scott_Tarlow]

Bila, sonics have a lot more to do with the amount of drivers in the iem. The way the sound is transported from the driver to the eardrum has a lot to do with it. The TF10 sounds better than the 5pro. I wouldn't be surprised if the UE4 beats the TF10 though.

 

[Nar1117]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilavideo /img/forum/go_quote.gif There is definitely a "cool" factor involved in having a custom-fit IEM, but soundwise, if the fit is snug, I'm at a loss for how the custom sounds better.

You bring up an excellent point. If a universal sounds great, there's no reason to go to custom. We're all looking for a great-sounding 'phone, right? However, if the choice is between a universal and a custom, to buy, and they're both the same price, why not go custom and eliminate the "comfort" factor? Maybe a certain universal won't fit well in someone's ears.

When you get down to driver and crossover design, that's a different battle (in general). I can't comment personally on whether 3 drivers are better than 2, nor can I comment on whether making 2 drivers in a custom shell makes it comparable to a 3 driver universal. I just don't know.

But the point stands, if the fit is snug, why go custom?

 

[Bilavideo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott_Tarlow /img/forum/go_quote.gif Bila, sonics have a lot more to do with the amount of drivers in the iem. The way the sound is transported from the driver to the eardrum has a lot to do with it. The TF10 sounds better than the 5pro. I wouldn't be surprised if the UE4 beats the TF10 though.

Yes, there's more to sonics than the drivers but the only differences between these two IEMS are the custom shell/tip (in the UE4) and the better drivers (of the Triple Fi 10). I don't see any evidence that the UE4 has a better "integrated crossover" or a better set of "filters." This whole discussion comes down to the relative values of "custom fit" versus "better drivers." As some have expressed skepticism about the superiority of "better drivers," I can't help but express an equal skepticism about the kind of blank-check assumptions associated with "custom fit."

No doubt, "better fit" is better than "worse fit," but the idea that you have to have a custom fit to get a proper fit merits scrutiny. I'm not suggesting that a custom fit isn't, by definition, superior to the best fit from universal tips. I am, however, skeptical of the assumption that the difference between a custom fit and the very best fit from universals somehow outweighs the difference between the triple drivers on a $400 Triple Fi 10 and the dual drivers on a $200 Super Fi 5.

If drivers don't matter, why base the UE 4 on the Super Fi 5? Why not go back to the single driver armature of the Metro line? If drivers are just a gimmick, by all means, let's save some money and go back to the Metros. In fact, let's do the same thing across the board. Who needs top-tier drivers in full-size speaker systems when we can just plug in any driver as long as we have nice cabinets?

 

[brconner]

I just called UE and here is what I was told. The custom earphone department told me is that the UE4's have a very flat sound signature while the triple.fi's have a boost in the bass. He also said the UE4's a better solution for audiophiles and performing artists.

I imagine the last reason is simply because of the custom fit, but what do you guys think about the "bass boost" in the triple.fi's vs the flat sound in the UE4's?

Also I nice thing I found out, if I purchase the headphones from UE directly and they don't fit I have 30 days to return them. So that's good news should I get triple.fi's and find they do not fit.

 

[Spyro]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brconner /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just called UE and here is what I was told. The custom earphone department told me is that the UE4's have a very flat sound signature while the triple.fi's have a boost in the bass. He also said the UE4's a better solution for audiophiles and performing artists.

Sounds perhaps like a poor man's UM3X.

TF10Pro bass is pretty neutral. Just a very slight mid-bass hump done quite well.

 

[xkRoWx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brconner /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just called UE and here is what I was told. The custom earphone department told me is that the UE4's have a very flat sound signature while the triple.fi's have a boost in the bass. He also said the UE4's a better solution for audiophiles and performing artists. I imagine the last reason is simply because of the custom fit, but what do you guys think about the "bass boost" in the triple.fi's vs the flat sound in the UE4's? Also I nice thing I found out, if I purchase the headphones from UE directly and they don't fit I have 30 days to return them. So that's good news should I get triple.fi's and find they do not fit.

I was able to audition a pair of "Trips" versus my friend's "Soop5", and to my ears, the Trips sounds too bassy for my liking. The store rep said the Trips "blows the Super.Fi5 out of the water", but it was just too "muddy" to my ears. I can literally feel my forehead getting pounded by the bass.

I'm not an IEM guy, mainly because the isolation provided by IEMs tend to have this "hum", or "underwater feel", like I can hear my own blood pumping through the veins and vessels. Add the Trip's boosted bass, it became too muddy.

I would personally go for the dual driver, mainly because I liked the Soop5 better than Trips.. On the other hand, decision between UE4 and JH5...

 

[lisztian420]

Again... I think the placement of the drivers in customs and the overall bigger sound tube that goes deeper in your ear does make a difference. Maybe not a whole lot... but there's gotta be a difference. As for more drivers always means better SQ, I really don't think so. I heard some of the low end 3 drivers customs are crap

I am sure having two driver is better than one.... but as far as going beyond two drivers I think the design and the cross over will narrow the difference between UE4 and TF10

Anyways... I will be gettin my customs back in a few days. Will let you know how it sounds

 

[clasam]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lisztian420 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Again... I think the placement of the drivers in customs and the overall bigger sound tube that goes deeper in your ear does make a difference. Maybe not a whole lot... but there's gotta be a difference. As for more drivers always means better SQ, I really don't think so. I heard some of the low end 3 drivers customs are crap I am sure having two driver is better than one.... but as far as going beyond two drivers I think the design and the cross over will narrow the difference between UE4 and TF10 Anyways... I will be gettin my customs back in a few days. Will let you know how it sounds

Please do!
I'm especially interested in finding out how the UE4 and JH5 compare with the Unique Melody modded Super 5s. And how the UE4/JH5 compare with customized IEM w/ dynamic drivers!

 

[Bilavideo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyro /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sounds perhaps like a poor man's UM3X. TF10Pro bass is pretty neutral. Just a very slight mid-bass hump done quite well.

I agree. I don't know how anybody could think of it as muddy.

 

[FYJX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilavideo /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think you're absolutely right. There is definitely a "cool" factor involved in having a custom-fit IEM, but soundwise, if the fit is snug, I'm at a loss for how the custom sounds better. Furthermore, it's kinda laughable that people are willing to trash the Triple Fi's three-driver design (as a gimmick) in order to justify the claim that a $200 Super Fi 5 sounds better as a $400 UE 4 because it's "custom." On this issue, I'd take a page from Westone. I own the W3 and the UM3X, both of which deliver an awesome presentation. Westone doesn't make you buy their ES3X to go custom. It offers the M56 tips for less than $120. Now THAT's the way you do it. Kudos to Westone which doesn't have to preen like a supermodel. If I want the "custom" experience with Westone, all I have to do is order the M56 tips. Why haven't I? Because (God, I love this) Westone makes IEMs that fit so well, it feels like a waste of time to worry about it. My UM3X fits so snug I can't imagine how much better a custom tip would fit. The W3 is even more so, though - because of its size - it's not as sleek a fit. Westone doesn't push for customs the way UE/Logitech does. The ES3X is pretty much it, and - to its everlasting credit - Westone offers the M56 tips to serve an obvious market for customs. But honestly, the fit off the W3 and UM3X is so easy and so complete, I can't imagine a huge number of Westone buyers rushing to go custom. Westone's smart marketing move, in offering custom tips (for less than $120) stands in stark contrast to UE's game of steering consumers to customs. It's hard not see this "customs" obsession as insecurity and anxiety over nothing. To be sure, if we all had a grand to toss around for UE10s, we might not be having this conversation. But I have to laugh when people assume that a custom is, per se, better than a properly fitted universal. It may well be that the three-driver design is a gimmick, just like an "integrated passiver crossover" the size of a baby's fingernail. It may well be that a single driver can do just fine. But to jump to that conclusion, in the effort to prop up a $200 IEM being sold for $400, is a measure of how quickly our egoes get drawn into these debates.

The Ue4 Pro is no where near the level of the Super Fi 5, just because both are Dual Driver designs, they have nothing in similar beyond that. You also can't justify a earphones performance on the number of driver it has, i'd take the Dual driver, Westone Um2, Earsonics Sm2, and Shure Se420 over the Triple Fi's anyday. Why? Because i believe the highs on the Triple Fi are far too irritating, lows are too hollow sounding, and bloated, Mids are less detailed compared the Dual drivers i just mentioned. Why get the Triple Fi then?


The problem with Foam, Comply's is yes, they do fit your ear, but the density of the material doesn't allow full comfort, as it continually tries to expand in your ear and pushes against your ear canal causing discomfort (for some at least) also, because of the Foam/Comply Sleeves...well are made from foam, yo suffer the fact that you lose detail, accuracy, and the characteristic of the earphone as it makes the sound a lot warmer, and less detailed, with a boomier bass than a quick and thumping one. Now the "Slight" fix for that is to get Custom Tips, like the Um56 from Westone. They provide a custom fit for your ear canal, but are only to a little extent as they don't completely fill your whole entire inner ear, and only the part that the little tip is at. Also because the fact that you can turn the custom tip on Universal Iems, you may still not match up the custom tip to your ear exactly as you could have put them in slightly to the left, right, up or down a tad.

get the point of customs now?


The jump from the W3/UM3X level to the ES3X level is well....big

 

[charlie0904]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lisztian420 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Again... I think the placement of the drivers in customs and the overall bigger sound tube that goes deeper in your ear does make a difference. Maybe not a whole lot... but there's gotta be a difference. As for more drivers always means better SQ, I really don't think so. I heard some of the low end 3 drivers customs are crap I am sure having two driver is better than one.... but as far as going beyond two drivers I think the design and the cross over will narrow the difference between UE4 and TF10 Anyways... I will be gettin my customs back in a few days. Will let you know how it sounds

reviews?

 

[shigzeo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by steviebee /img/forum/go_quote.gif Good point - I always wondered this. In terms of seal anyway. Unless some of that magic custom pixie dust is sprinkled in the cables, drivers?

ive actually found foam to isolate the most of any iem. i have customs too and while i vastly prefer their sound as bone conduction makes all the difference, the isolation, while great, is not as intense as a really good foam piece. i would reckon to the order of 2-5db difference if not more.

a custom also has a physical problem which is that the hard acrylic, while completely comfortable, movies if your ears move and can lose seal from time to time (like when you smile and your ears move toward the top of your head).

soundwise, my customs are so far ahead of any universal i have tried (not signature, that is roughly equivalent to top end universals), that thinking about universals for other than exercise, makes me itch in places.

the pixy dust for me and customs is the fit, which conforms to the ear in hard acrylic that vibrates against the ear bone (bone conduction). soundstage, bass, instrument placement: it is all heavily better than a universal.

edit: my customs are the CT6 from Sleek, one of the more realistically priced customs. I think they sell for around 400$ now but I got them when they were a bit cheaper as mine are prototypes. I have had the SA6 as well which sounds quite decent, but the CT6 is by far better. I also don't subscribe to the idea that a multiple driver design inherently means better. Sleek use more expensive single drivers than UE, Westone or Shure - I have no idea how it quantifies into quality other than to say that the CT6 by far bests anything I have yet heard on the market. I have not heard the W3, but I can tell you that sound signature aside, there is no way that for my ears, customs would be put aside by any universal.