[Cyclone]

First off

1. The Karma is Kaput . Looks like there was a reason why the Karma was selling at such a rediculously low price. For many of you this is a good news bad news thing, on one hand the legendary Bang-buck Karma is gone, but on the other hand its gone... and being replaced by the Chroma (speculation).

2. For those of you who just loved the micro but couldnt stand the mere 5 and now 6gb capacity there is this . More pics can be found here as well. Looks...decent. Its not nearly as sleek looking as the 5gb micro IMO but i wouldnt jump to call it ugly, but the 3 tone silver, black, and blue do make it look fat. And look at those fancy words...magnesium aloy body

i want one of those on my 5gb micro. Take it for what you will, it has its flaws such as the battery life (only reported at 11 hours) and most likely none of the features that many super-hi-fi people will demand like line-out/in but for most it looks to be quite a player.

Opinions? Comments? Questions?

 

[RockCity]

As much as I love my Karma, I consider it to be Rio's biggest failure. It could not compete with the iPod 2 years ago, and neither can it today. There are too many problems with hard drive to make this a robust product. Worse, Rio's apathy towards the Karma expediated its demise. The resignation of the Karma foreshadows either Rio's similar fate or rebirth. I think it is the former because Rio has not released speculation about the Chroma or any future products. Besides the average consumer will not side with a lesser company, compared to Apple, especially after Karma has proved the unreliabilty of its products. So, if the Chroma does come out it will recieve only mild popularity from audio enthusiasts and those people who are already familiar with Rio/Karma.

 

[Edvard_Grieg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockCity As much as I love my Karma, I consider it to be Rio's biggest failure. It could not compete with the iPod 2 years ago, and neither can it today. There are too many problems with hard drive to make this a robust product. Worse, Rio's apathy towards the Karma expediated its demise. The resignation of the Karma foreshadows either Rio's similar fate or rebirth. I think it is the former because Rio has not released speculation about the Chroma or any future products. Besides the average consumer will not side with a lesser company, compared to Apple, especially after Karma has proved the unreliabilty of its products. So, if the Chroma does come out it will recieve only mild popularity from audio enthusiasts and those people who are already familiar with Rio/Karma.

In all fairness though:

1) Rio is no more or less forthcoming with information on their upcoming products than Apple. Apple just happens to be on a 'quicker' product cycle (yes the 'Chroma' should have been released sooner)
2) Rio has dramatically improved customer support. This is not just '3rd party impressions', they literally stopped outsourcing customer service and brought it back stateside and made it a key point of their business strategy. If you don't believe me look at the older posts asking for help on Riovolution, and compare them to the current ones in the Carbon section where "Rio Customer Care" has actively worked to ensure customer satisfaction.

I do think Rio has dropped the ball in some areas, but I do not believe that the Karma was a failure by any means, and I along with many others still consider it a valid and compelling alternative to the iPod even now that it is 1.5 years old.

 

[GSTom1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edvard_Grieg Rio has dramatically improved customer support. This is not just '3rd party impressions', they literally stopped outsourcing customer service and brought it back stateside and made it a key point of their business strategy.

Thank God! No more rerouted calls to India!


Quote:

Originally Posted by Edvard_Grieg I do think Rio has dropped the ball in some areas

I think Rio really dropped the ball with the Carbon. They had this sweet looking product that was ready to take on the iPod Mini, then the whole headphone jack static issue and resulting negative press really deflated its momentum. Plus they never added an FM tuner or many other features to it, giving competitors like Creative and iRiver an advantage with their players.

 

[viator122]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edvard_Grieg I do think Rio has dropped the ball in some areas, but I do not believe that the Karma was a failure by any means, and I along with many others still consider it a valid and compelling alternative to the iPod even now that it is 1.5 years old.

This may be true, but don't forget what their biggest competitor has done in that 1.5 years. We've seen the release of the 4G iPod, iPod mini (2 generations), iPod Shuffle, and iPod Photo. In addition all these products have been revamped with price and capacity changes and minor tweaks. Rio has only released the Carbon and while the Karma may still be a viable and compelling alternative to the iPod, Rio is just not keeping up. They look stale by comparison. By not updating they keep themselves out of the public eye. Look at what Creative did: they released a good, new player amidst great fanfare and a large ad campaign and they're selling lots of them. Rio needs to get on the ball and they need to do it NOW.

 

[GSTom1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by viator122 This may be true, but don't forget what their biggest competitor has done in that 1.5 years. We've seen the release of the 4G iPod, iPod mini (2 generations), iPod Shuffle, and iPod Photo. In addition all these products have been revamped with price and capacity changes and minor tweaks. Rio has only released the Carbon and while the Karma may still be a viable and compelling alternative to the iPod, Rio is just not keeping up. They look stale by comparison. By not updating they keep themselves out of the public eye. Look at what Creative did: they released a good, new player amidst great fanfare and a large ad campaign and they're selling lots of them. Rio needs to get on the ball and they need to do it NOW.

Even the lesser competitors have done more! In the past year, iRiver released the H3XX line to replace the older H1XX series, a new series of 5GB micro players, new flash players and even a portable media center player. Creative has released the Zen Micro and they come is a variety of colors and capacities and ones with color screens will be here shortly. They also released the Zen Touch and the new Zen 20GB has just been announced. Plus they have also released various Muvos and Muvo2s and a portable Media Cnter. Even iAudio has released several players in a relatively short period of time.

You’re right…Rio just isn’t keeping up. The Rio Carbon and the few color variations just isn’t going to grab market share , especially if you don’t have a flagship 20GB player.

 

[austonia]

iRiver puts out a ton of players, yeah, and it shows because they've largely been half-assed, especially in the firmware department. H100 and H300 both. The H10 is a better effort but still, months later, they can't figure out how get albums to playback in correct track order. Not to mention gapless playback, crossfading, smart playlists, etc.

IMO, Karma has the best GUI, playback, and options 1.5 years after it's debut. I like the design as well, and the controls, though I can see how many people wouldn't. For whatever it's worth, me and Rob (DAPreview) have personally handled most every DAP on the market, and it's still our top pick

Of course I'm as impatient as anyone for the next version, and frustated with Rio's lack of communication with thier fans and the public in general.

 

[mushu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edvard_Grieg In all fairness though: 1) Rio is no more or less forthcoming with information on their upcoming products than Apple. Apple just happens to be on a 'quicker' product cycle (yes the 'Chroma' should have been released sooner) 2) Rio has dramatically improved customer support. This is not just '3rd party impressions', they literally stopped outsourcing customer service and brought it back stateside and made it a key point of their business strategy. If you don't believe me look at the older posts asking for help on Riovolution, and compare them to the current ones in the Carbon section where "Rio Customer Care" has actively worked to ensure customer satisfaction. I do think Rio has dropped the ball in some areas, but I do not believe that the Karma was a failure by any means, and I along with many others still consider it a valid and compelling alternative to the iPod even now that it is 1.5 years old.

Exactly.

The karma is still, arguably, THE player for audiophiles. If you want a DAP for music, and generally just music, the karma is for you.

The carbon now is it 's main seller now, and they really should have released a new flagship 20gb+ player between 2 years (it'll be that before the chroma is released).

 

[Underdog311]

Battery life is a big selling point to me. The original micro had terrible battery life I thought. Now its down to 11? lol. I will stick with my HD3.

 

[JWFokker]

Rio has never had a great handle on the market. All their designs look clumsy and/or goofy if you ask me, including the Nitrus/Carbon. It looks and feels cheap despite it's small size. And it's not exactly ergonomic despite it's 'slick' design. On the other hand, I don't think the iPod is anything special, highly overrated in my opinion, but it's got that very plain Ikea-like look to it that appeals to the average person. They think it's a high class, tasteful design or something. But I'll agree that despite having products with low market appeal, Rio's really hurt themselves by not releasing new products. You just don't give them any thought because you never hear about them. I think the Carbon was the last new product they pushed out the door and it's just a rehashed Nitrus (hopefully fixing the abysmal quality issues they had with the Cornice drive). If I were to pick an mp3 player right now it'd be a Creative or that cool Olympus m:robe player, because it's wicked cool. I'd snap one up in a second if I knew the sound quality compared favorably (or at least decently) to a Zen Touch.

Supposedly the Chroma will be amazing, but even if it is, they'll need to produce more players than just that to be successful. Apple cranks out one iPod model after another and I'm sure they'll do the same with the Shuffle. Creative bangs out entirely new models on a regular basis. Now you get to choose from the Zen, the Touch, the Micro and the Muvo2 line. These companies have market presence. It's all about appearances, literally and figuratively. Marketing. While we're all audiophiles more or less and choose a player based upon merits, we're also a very small portion of the market. Rio doesn't entire the minds of average customers. And for a large part, Creative doesn't either but even they're more recognizable than Rio. Then again they also have better looking players. It's 50% about looks and 50% about name, and Rio doesn't have either. Performance doesn't factor into the mind of the average buyer. Battery life, sound quality, interface, they're all non-issues because they don't know what to look for anyway (not that manufacturer claims are accurate to begin with). I'm honestly surprised Rio has stayed alive this long. I figured they'd have closed up shop by now because there's no compelling reason to buy their players. I'll live with marginally weaker sound quality and go with a Touch for the more pocket friendly form factor and enormously better battery life than the Karma.

 

[MadDog]

I have been waiting for almost year for bigger (capacity-wise) Karma or Chroma, but Rio completely failed me. I ended up owning Zen Touch 40GB but always will miss Rio DJ! Good bye Rio...

 

[EyeAmEye]

Fare thee well Karma. Perhaps the speculated Chroma will be released with a special carrying case that is soft enough to put it in when you need to smash it against something to get it working again. Or maybe Rio will actually test it before they release it...

 

[Edvard_Grieg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSTom1 Thank God! No more rerouted calls to India! I think Rio really dropped the ball with the Carbon. They had this sweet looking product that was ready to take on the iPod Mini, then the whole headphone jack static issue and resulting negative press really deflated its momentum. Plus they never added an FM tuner or many other features to it, giving competitors like Creative and iRiver an advantage with their players.

Yes there was some lost momentum with the 'static' issue, however, I do think that Rio addressed the issue and handled it quickly and in an assertive manner. While sadly there was the issue to begin with, I think it takes a lot for a company to say "yes there is this problem, we'll provide a temporary fix (extender), and have made necessary changes for all new units" I think the biggest competitor to the Carbon is the Micro with OTF Playlists etc, however, Creative has had their own quality control issues, and my understanding is that the battery life is less than stellar as well.

 

[wolfen68]

When I was looking for a new DAP, I had to force myself to forget all of my former bad experiences with Rio (I had a RioVolt...actually a couple of them if you catch my drift).

I was ready to consider them as a competitor again, but they never released the 40 gig model I needed. Therefore, it was easy to eliminate them from the buying process.

 

[austonia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mushu The karma is still, arguably, THE player for audiophiles. If you want a DAP for music, and generally just music, the karma is for you. The carbon now is it 's main seller now, and they really should have released a new flagship 20gb+ player between 2 years (it'll be that before the chroma is released).

agreed. Rio's software engineers are IMO the most talented in the biz. hardware could use improvement, true, and they have said that in the next gen this has been adressed.