[mcgino]

Kelly
I can't comment on your (1) or (3) other than knowing that Joe is working hard to build a company out of nothing. It has been a six year struggle for him and his organization. He's very dedicated to his work.

Regarding (2), we are trying to organize the headphone enthusiasts here in Hong Kong. Among local members, we have a wide range of headphones ranging from R10 and Stax down to cheap earbuds (you can get really cheap earbuds (Panasonic even!) in HK for a little over $1USD). We'll be having our first meet on the 23rd. Hopefully as the network builds, ASL can test their stuff here first... He's welcome to borrowing my phones! I'm sure Joe Bloggs would also be happy to write unbiased reviews (after NDA periods of course)!

I've also talked to Joe about putting together a more informative site to promote to customers and also support his global distribution network.

I'm contacting a local headphone manufacturer as well (they are a listed company). Hope we can work towards developing great products here in Hong Kong!! I'm looking into getting some critical measuring equipment where I work to help support these efforts. We already have an anechoic chamber. Expect even better products out of Hong Kong soon!!

gino

 

[Wodgy]

Just a small related comment, don't let the hum/noise/whatever of ASL's products sour you on tube gear in general. I've owned two Fisher tube amplifiers, both more than 35 years old (one with 21 original vacuum tubes!), and neither had any hum at all even with Etymotics. If 35 year old tube gear doesn't have problems, it's probably reasonable to expect zero hum from modern production gear.

Also, Joe, you don't need millions of cans to test with your products. You only need three, and you'll cover the vast majority of headphones and impedances that people really use:
- Sennheiser HD580 or HD600 (high impedance)
- Any Grado from SR125 to RS-1 (low impedance)
- Etymotic ER-4S (medium impedance, close to the international standard)
It's silly to complain that you don't have enough cans to test your products properly, so you ship them to people anyway.

 

[Tuberoller]

I think a huge problem during all of this has been dealing with the Distributor,Divergent technologies and Tash Goka.He has continously denied any quality control issues and even denied that the Twinhead has ever been shown at any Hi-fi shows.I saw it and photgraphed it twice,once in Las vegas back in January(where I also took and posted a pic of Joe Lau along with the very earliest version of the Twinhead with the headphone jacks on top of the case)and again at the New York Stereophile show where I actually got a chance to audition(in an after hours audition,which are supposed to be private and confidential) an early production sample and heard the hum.Again I took and posted a pic.Tash denies that the Twinhead was at either show and swears no one auditioned it and it had no hum.If you do a search for my NY show post and my CES/T.H.E. Las Vegas posts and check the pics,you will see that I have indeed photgraphed the Twinhead and have met and talked with Joe Lau.The reason I make mention of not being allowed to audition the Twinhead in the pics because I was asked not to admit that I had indeed done so.I don't want to say that Tash has been dishonest,but I don't know what else to think.I just want a working Twinhead with no problems.


Efit:I'm gonna give up on the Twinhead.The dealer I bought it from has decided to stop carrying the ASL line and has all the gear for sale cheap on Audiogon.That's too bad.I like Joe Lau a lot and know that he is trying hard to do things right.It was never my intention here to bad mouth Joe or his products,only to inform the members of head-fi.I count Joe as a friend of the Hobby and if he makes it to Las Vegas for the next show I will attempt to meet with him again to thank him personally for his work.

 

[Orpheus]

"I only can sure ! Our prodcuts can 100% replace if it have qulity problem." - joe lau

nope... you guys denied replacing my broken mg head. or at least Divergent did. it hummed VERY badly. and the faceplate was almost 1cm lower on one side compared to the other. yet, when it was sent back to Divergent, their tech denied anything was wrong, even though the dealer i bought it from also had their tech examine it before sending it off, verifying that the faceplate was WAY crooked, and also there was significant humming.

so... joe, you need to speak with your distributors here. i am on my 3rd mg head, and it is very frustrating working with Divergent. my dealer, Holm Audio, decided to replace my unit at their own loss. think about it.

but anyway... "even Microsoft release software with Bug !"... yes, they do. but your gear is PARTICULARLY troublesome. you definately have a lot of quality control issues that you have neglected to deal with... at least for the Mg Head, the Wave, and the Twinhead.

welp, my 3rd mg head still has problems... a volume pot that attenuates one channel more than the other. so, after 1/2 year of release, you fixed the old bugs, only to make another serious mistake.

"I don't have enought Cans to test all condition."-- well, BUY SOME!!! they cost less than good test equipment. no excuses.

 

[freethetree]

Joe - I hope you arent trying to say that Microsoft is a "good company"

. They are known to release unthoroughly tested crap software to the public over and over. I have much more respect for your company than I do for Microsoft and I hope you dont interpret my question as an attack. I was just wondering if it was common practice in the audio industry (like it is in the pharmaceutical industry) to have the first wave of customers effectively testing the products. If it happens, it happens (and it sucks for the consumer) but not having enough headphones to test your own product isnt a good excuse. Offering to replace any malfunctioning product is a great policy that should be standard for every manufacture.

 

[kelly]

freethetree
MicroSoft has one of the largest QA departments in existence. They have two QA personel for every one programmer. MicroSoft adheres to very high quality assurance standards and has lengthy beta testing that includes user testing. The frequency of discovered bugs in their products is owed to having such a large user base, broad use and misuse, non-standardized hardware in a near infinite assortment of configurations and legacy support.

I don't think the analogy of headphone amplifiers to software development houses is a complete one, however Joe's point that there are such a wide array of users and headphones can be likened to MicroSoft's difficulties.

Again, it sounds like the bulk of ASL's problems are not quality assurance, however--the mismatched impedances and such are a very small portion of the complaints I see. This is where having someone like Joe Bloggs and others help out would be useful--this is for the most part design side.

The problem is in quality control. Say what you will about MicroSoft's quality assurance, but almost every box of Windows XP contains a disc and a manual. The disc has software on it, the manual has complete pages. Every box is within a narrow margin exactly the same as every other box. This is quality control. When a pot works on one MG Head and not on another, this is a quality control problem related to manufacturing, not a quality assurance problem related to design.

I'm glad to see the problems with Divergent being vocalized. I do very much think this is the biggest problem facing ASL.

 

[Tuberoller]

Kelly's points are spot-on.At least Joe will admit to and attempt to remedy Quality Control problems.Tash won't even acknowledge problems and continues to insist that he has done all possible to insure that the best product is delivered.This is simply not true.If Tash unboxed and tested these units(as he should as an importer/distributor) he could intercept and possibly repair some of the problems before they reached the end user.

I wish that Joe could find a new importer who displays the same integrity that he does.I think we all need to make known problems we have concerning QC and other problems.I have had some great experiences and some real horror stories.There are some outstanding importers/distributors and some very real evil people doing business(Stanalog Imports comes to mind) in our hobby.There are so many really nice people in this hobby that they and the companies they represent need to be singled out for praise.I have to say that after dealing with people such as Kevro(Musical Fidelity),AudioPhile Systems(Arcam)May Audio(various lines,including Cambridge,Roksan and Target) who treat dealers and consumers really well and are honest and forthcoming,it is a real displeasure dealing with people such as Divergent,Stanalog(Sudgen), Laurerman Imports(Rega) and The Needle Doctor.I have met and spoken in person with each of the principals from each of these companies and my experiences are first hand.None of this stuff is personal,I am a consumer first.I buy gear cause I got the bug in a big way and I just love cool, new stuff.It is easy to confirm that attitudes of each of the companies I have mentioned are pretty universal,be they good or bad.i don't know about you guys,but I know that my money spends the same everywhere,so I demand good service and products.I will not buy junk from jerks.This is absolutely not a conviction of Joe Lau,know that for certain.

 

[andrzejpw]

Joe: I'd just like to share that the comments I've heard about MG Head quality control were what stopped me from purchasing one of your amplifiers. When you're spending over $300 on an amplifier, one expects good service and support. Divergent doesn't really give those. Heck, when my friend's reciever broke, sony took it back, no problem. He paid $300 for the reciever. Until you find an importer that lives up to my(and other's) expectations(hmmm, headroom?), I'm afraid that I won't be doing business with your company.

I really hope to do business in the future, and I am very anxious to spend some serious time with your products.

 

[sacd lover]

WHY DO TUBES HAVE TO SOUND SO GOOD! I have them and they brake. I SWEAR THEM OFF. I buy another tube preamp; it breaks. Then the repair delays and warranty battles. Then the shipping and return shipping. Solid state is good too. What do tubes do to us?

 

[freethetree]

kelly - I was not attempting to make any such analogy, I was simply responding to Joes post about Microsoft releasing buggy software. Obviously Microsoft does ok with quality control and product uniformity. Theyre selling software.

That said, in my personal experience Microsofts quality assurance sucks. Ive run everything from $10 shareware to $16,000 modeling software on my computers and none have fared as poorly as Microsofts programs in terms of security and overall smooth running. In my experience product updates are usually for adding functionality, improving the interface, and optimizing performance. When most of the updates a company releases are to address security holes and system crashes their software creates I get worried. These are the kinds of things that should be taken care of in the beta stages. Of course every now and then little things can slip by but as I said no other software ive had experience with has been as bad as Microsofts stuff.

 

[kelly]

freethetree
I understood your initial post. My reply was a failed attempt to explain why there are so many bugs in MicroSoft's products and that they actually have one of the best QA teams and processes in the world (aside from NASA). The fact is that the products they try to make with the features, compatability and legacy support in tact are simply not as easy to make as they seem when compared directly with products that do not have such lofty requirements and can readily be written from scratch. I will concede to agree to disagree, though, since I think my comparisons with ASL's problems were at least understood and a bit closer to on topic.

 

[freethetree]

kelly-

Sorry about the misunderstanding. When you put my name in the beginning of the post I thought you were directly addressing me throughout and with the bold letters and simple explanations I felt somewhat patronized. Its hard to tell someones intent on the internet, especially on a public forum.

 

[kelly]

freethetree
Most people aren't aware of the difference between quality control and quality assurance. The post was directed toward you but for everyone's benefit. I'm sorry if it came across as condescending--that wasn't my intent.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Still, it seems that despite Microsoft's supposedly huge efforts at quality assurance, it's still their quality assurance with which freethetree (and most everyone else) has gripes. So the distinction between QA and QC isn't at issue WRT Microsoft.

 

[kelly]

Bloggs
The explanation was due to complaints against ASL, which was at one point the topic of this thread.

In case you guys don't frequent the HeadRoom forum as often, HeadRoom has announced that they will no longer carry the MG Head due to quality control issues.