Turntable questions...

[Lou Erickson]

I've been looking at turntables, at replacing my cheap Radio Shack one with something better.
 
I've been really happy with the vintage Marantz tuners I've bought.  I think they sound great, they look good, and they have all the features I want.  They also have a phono stage that will work with any turntable I'd care to own.
 
I started looking at the vintage Marantz turntables on ebay - they match, and I've been happy with the tuners, so I thought I'd look there.
 
They're either beat up or more than I want to pay.
 
If I buy a used turntable, can I make any needed repairs myself, or will I need to find a shop?  I'm in the San Francisco bay area, so I'm sure there's somewhere reachable.  Any suggestions as to where might be able to help me if I get in over my head?
 
There's a Thorens Jubilee on AudiogoN, with a broken tone arm and no power supply.  I understand people upgrade tone arms all the time; will that be difficult to do?  The original tone arm appears on eBay.  Where could I get a power supply?  Will any wall wart with the right outputs do?  That'll be about $600 to make the turntable work... is that a reasonable price for that table?
 
Should I simply not worry about the vintage and buy a new one?  I could be sure it would actually work properly, and have some choices there.
 
I've been looking at prices for a while, but haven't found one that I thought was right yet.
 
Any thoughts, suggestions, places I should look?

 

[Gatepc]

I've heard vintage is a good deal when buying turntables but I personally just want to buy one and know that it will work. I've been thinking of buying a Rega RP 1 (goes for around $450) I've read nothing but great reviews from all over and it was recommended to me by someone who's been working at a hifi store for a long time. If I was you i'd go for a new Rega RP1 just make sure you get a phono preamp these higher end tables generally don't have phono preamps built in.

 

[DeadEars]

For a nice sounding modern turntable, I'd strongly recommend the Rega line, starting with the P3, I think.  The Rega comes with a nice tonearm and it is easy to set up.  You'll need a phono cartridge and a preamplifier that has a phono stage.  I'm assuming you already have one in your receiver?
 
If you're willing to go vintage, you can pick up a very nice belt-drive Thorens, such as the TD-150 for not much money.  The main bearing on the Thorens was extremely good quality, and the tonearm on the TD-150 and to a lesser extent on the TD-160 are not bad (not as nice as the Rega tho).  I sold a TD-150 about two years ago with a Shure V15-IV cartridge for less than $200 in very nice condition.
 
You'll want a nice cartrdige too.  At these price points the Shure's and Grado's are very hard to beat.
 
Hope this helps!  Hard to go wrong with any of the above.
 
best,
 
Frank

 

[Uncle Erik]

For $600, I'd go with a used Rega Planar 3 or P3. Great deck with a ton of aftermarket options.

 

[sk3383]

X3
 
Quote:

For $600, I'd go with a used Rega Planar 3 or P3. Great deck with a ton of aftermarket options.

 

 

[sk3383]

If you were interested in buying new, the Pro-Ject RPM 1.3 is a great entry level table.

 

[sterling1]

Maybe someone here can tell me what they're talking about when they talk about a " great entry level turntable". The way I see it, a turntable/tonearm/cartridge, which constitutes a player, either works or it doesn't. That's to say, if it tracks an LP, plays it at the correct speed, is quiet, and does not damage the record, it seems to me that would satisfy anyone. What turntables out there today do not do that? And, since relatively inexpensive turntables get the job done, why spend more? 

 

[DeadEars]

In the turntable world, it is all about managing vibrations.  More expensive turntables do a better job of maintaining stability of the cartridge relative to the spinning record, and not getting excited (e.g. generating harmonics) from the source material or from external influences such as the drive motor, or sound/bass vibrations from the music being played.  They have lower noise, better control of speed, blacker blacks and better dynamic range.  Many of these results occur through the use of materials science around the different vibrational and sonic properties of component parts, and how they interact.  So you'll find different materials used in turntable platters, plinths, tonearms, etc. as well as the use of mechanical techniques such as constrained-layer damping, floating (magnetic) bearings, suspended tonearms, silicone-damped suspensions, etc. in some of the higher-end turntables.  A lot of science, a lot of experimentation and R&D, thus more expensive turntables.  Many alternative solutions to the same problems, and a lot of very clever engineering.  It's an interesting area, and one that appears simple on the surface (as you surmise) but turns out to be extraordinarily complex.  And of course, expensive!
 
HTH,
 
Frank

 

[sk3383]

Quote:

In the turntable world, it is all about managing vibrations.  More expensive turntables do a better job of maintaining stability of the cartridge relative to the spinning record, and not getting excited (e.g. generating harmonics) from the source material or from external influences such as the drive motor, or sound/bass vibrations from the music being played.  They have lower noise, better control of speed, blacker blacks and better dynamic range.  Many of these results occur through the use of materials science around the different vibrational and sonic properties of component parts, and how they interact.  So you'll find different materials used in turntable platters, plinths, tonearms, etc. as well as the use of mechanical techniques such as constrained-layer damping, floating (magnetic) bearings, suspended tonearms, silicone-damped suspensions, etc. in some of the higher-end turntables.  A lot of science, a lot of experimentation and R&D, thus more expensive turntables.  Many alternative solutions to the same problems, and a lot of very clever engineering.  It's an interesting area, and one that appears simple on the surface (as you surmise) but turns out to be extraordinarily complex.  And of course, expensive!
 
HTH,
 
Frank

Great explaination!!!
 

 

[danska]

Personally I would go about it a bit different if $600 is your budget. Not knowing if you have a phono stage or not, I'll leave that out out of the budget. Something like a Thorens TD-160 which is pretty similar to that Jubilee would be a great entry level audiophile table. I've owned one, my friend has a couple (one with an upgraded Rega RB-250 arm) and they are great and have treated both of us very well. You should be able to get one for well under $300 that has been recently tuned up (something you want to have done). The TP-16 arm is junky, there is another arm that came on the TD-160MKII that was even worse and should be avoided, in my opinion. I'm not sure if slaping an arm on one the best decision unless you really want to stay vintage as that will run you $200+ and requires some fiddling to get it on there correctly. At that point you can buy a nicer table anyways, so I wouldn't think about it as the table to dump lots of change into. You can however, resell the thing for the same money you've got into it.
 
With the remaining $300 buy a nice Cartridge. There are some great ones for this price point, and this can always come with you to whatever table you choose! I own a Ortofon 2M bronze and it a great high output MM and you can upgrade the stylus at a later date. It retails closer to $400 but you can find it cheaper .
 
One last tip I would give, avoid some of the eBay turntables and the way people ship them, bad things can become of it and then you'll spend good dollars getting things fixed and re-tuned up. My recommendation is to find a nice local used one at a shop or through a private party and see if you can give it a listen.
 
Good luck!

 

[9pintube]

I'm with Uncle Erik on this one!  Even yrs. later if you wanted to up grade again you could always keep the RB 300 tonearm and use it on your "up graded" table.... That's what makes the Rega 3 or P3's so good, their arms are used on tables costing anywhere from 1-5 grand........with great success!  JMO

 

[Uncle Erik]

Yep, I used the RB300 for a bit on my Gyrodec. I eventually upgraded it to a full Orbe and dropped a SME IV on the Orbe.

Still, I came close to fully upgrading the Planar 3. That would have been a Michell Tecnoweight on the RB300, a cable upgrade I had done (I wanted a traditional ground), a Groovetracer subplatter, a speed control, and an adjuster for arm heigth. Maybe an acrylic platter, too.

You can endlessly upgrade Regas, which is a great reason to buy one. For a second system, someday, I'd like to pick up a Planar 25 and pimp it out. Those are a little outside your budget, but come with the excellent RB600 arm. A Tecnoweight, Groovetracer subplatter and a few other tweaks would turn it into a giant-slayer.

 

[Lou Erickson]

To the others who ask, yes, I have a phono stage.  I'm sure it can be improved, but that can come later.  I can get music out of a turntable, which is the right place to start with.
 
I've read many good reviews of the P3 or the new P3-24.
 
There's a Planar 3 , with the older tonearm on Audiogon for less than I'd expect.  Tempting.
 
 

 

[DeadEars]

Don't know anything about that particular one, but there are relatively few things to go wrong with the Rega's.  Another good reason to consider if you're on the fence.
 
HTH
 
 

 

[Uncle Erik]

Don't worry too much about the older Regas. The new models are only incrementally better. An older one will run well and give you a wide range of potential upgrades.