tube buffers

[Catcher]

In my constant need for tweakery I've come across tube buffers (again). Anyone have any experience of them in the context of vinyl playing?
I've always fancied having tubes in my system but current financial pressures mean a tube preamp or headphone amp is out of the question.
I was looking at Yaqin, Core Audio and L top buffers on ebay and wondered whether used between my phono stage and integrated amp it might inject some tube warmth into my solid state system.
Any advice appreciated.
I wondered even this little wonder at £40 might be worth an experiment?

Valve Buffer Pre Amp Amplifier 6N3 5670 2C51 6CC42 Tube on eBay, also Valves Electronic Tubes, Audio, Vintage Electronics, Consumer Electronics (end time 05-May-09 20:00:00 BST)

 

[Uncle Erik]

I've never been sure what tube buffers are for exactly. It's just adding another component to the chain - my philosophy has always been to keep the signal chain as short and simple as possible.

If you enjoy tweaking and have a limited budget, I strongly recommend finding a secondhand soldering iron and taking up DIY. Before you throw your hands in the air and say "I'm no good at that!" remember that no one in the DIY Forum was born knowin how to build. There is a learning curve, but it is fun, you'll get to talk with very interesting people and you'll get great sounding gear at bargain basement prices.

I recommend that you try your hand at a tube-based phono preamp. They aren't that hard, there are dozens of plans available and you will get the tubes you want.

 

[Gradofan2]

Do a search... and... you will find quite a bit.

In my expience with tube buffers... I prefer the Grant Fidelity B-283 Tube Buffer (Yaqin two tube) to the Core Audio, and MF X-10v3 tube buffers (I've had all of them). The B-283 is great.

I would only use these in conjunction with a SS DAC / Amp - they may be "overkill" for use with tube DACs, or tube Amps.

If you want a good tube phono pre-amp for your turntable - here are a few that get great reviews:

Bellari - VP130 Tube Phono Stage / Headphone Amplifier-Audio Advisor

Bellari - VP530 - Tube Phono Stage -w/USB and Analog Outputs-Audio Advisor

Ultra 4m Stereo Preamplifier

Line 2m Stereo Preamplifier

MAD Prices

 

[Godkin]

Had a few tube buffers over the years and, personally speaking, they have sonically improved any system I have had. The YAQIN buffer is ridulously good value for money and, with its more expansive sound, beat the more expensive MF X-10 V3. I also have the CORE AUDIO 6BC4 buffer and, in my opinion, it is better than the YAQIN, but there is not much in it.

 

[Catcher]

Thanks for all the replies.

Erik you have a point. I would love to start DIYing.

Godkin you think this would even improve a vinyl set up with ss amp? Its just the buffers are usually marketed as "taking the edge off" harsh digital sources. I'm hoping for an improvement in vinyl playback.

I think this time I will take the plunge. I NEED tubes.

 

[Gradofan2]

While... a tube buffer will help...

Personally... I would rather use a good tube amp, or tube phono stage / pre-amp to provide the tube warmth with an analog source.

There are lots of good, reasonably priced options for tube phono stages, or pre-amps. In addition to the tube phono stages, and pre-amps, noted below, also, Jolida offers some good tube and tube hybrid pre-amps, at reasonable prices.

Here's one: http://spearitsound.amazonwebstore.c...source=froogle

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Do a search... and... you will find.

I have searched and found quite a bit, but never quite understood why you'd put a tube buffer after a solid state phono preamp instead of just using a tubed phono preamp. I'm reluctant to put another component in the chain when you can just used a tubed component to begin with.

 

[Catcher]

A tubed phono preamp would make more sense but I have only just bought the 640p and Im reluctant to part with it. I also thought if the tube buffer didn't do what I wanted it to with the vinyl source I could try it with the squeezebox/dacmagic I'm getting soon.

 

[Headdie]

I may be a little off topic, but I have a related question. I've been considering a CD player with a tube buffer output (Shanling CD-S100SE). It seems to be a tubed special edition of the CD-S100.

Now I wonder if this player would be roughly equivalent to a regular CD-S100 plus my B-283 separate tube buffer? The B-283 is based on two 6AK5 and the CD-S100SE has an output based on a 12AX7...

I share Uncle's point of view, at least in theory, so I wonder if a tube buffer inside the CD player adds to signal path the same as a separate tube buffer... I just wonder...

 

[ADD]

I am with Erik on the subject of buffers. I think they are an indication of ill-matched components in an existing system or of a source that needs improving. I have mucked around in the past with DIY types of buffers (not personally made by me) and whilst the first reaction to them is quite positive, in the long term I realised they were really just another component in the chain adding more distortion. I found the better solution was to change the source.

 

[mrarroyo]

I have had a Musical Fidelity X-10 V3 tube buffer which I proceeded to modify w/ a kit from PinkFloyd. I even added a Little Pinkie PSU.

While the sound was nice in hindsight I would have been better off in getting another headphone for a different sound flavor.

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headdie /img/forum/go_quote.gif I may be a little off topic, but I have a related question. I've been considering a CD player with a tube buffer output (Shanling CD-S100SE). It seems to be a tubed special edition of the CD-S100. Now I wonder if this player would be roughly equivalent to a regular CD-S100 plus my B-283 separate tube buffer? The B-283 is based on two 6AK5 and the CD-S100SE has an output based on a 12AX7... I share Uncle's point of view, at least in theory, so I wonder if a tube buffer inside the CD player adds to signal path the same as a separate tube buffer... I just wonder...

Well... if you want a tube / tube hybid CDP/DAC... there are few better than the Monarchy M24 / NM24, which also has a tube line stage, which can be used to add tube warmth to other sources, though you still need a phono stage for your turntable.

A tube buffer really is just beneficial if you don't have a tube source, or tube amp, or both. It will add a bit of the tube warmth and liquidity that an all SS set up doesn't have. For example, the B-283 makes my $100 Maxi-Moy (albeit with OPA627s) sound like a $1500 tube amp.

 

[Stevesebastianb]

Someone has mentioned Yaqin Buffers, Yaqin have two models in their stable and both are tubes:

The Yaqin CD1 is just one tube and is 6DJ8/6922 based:

Input Power: 110V 60Hz
Tube: 6DJ8 / 6922
Input signal: 0.55V
Frequency: 5Hz- 500KHz(-1dB)
Harmonic Distortion :0. 15%(1KHz)
Signal to Noise Ratio 90dB (A)
Input Jack: 1 group
Output Jack: 1 group
Weight: 3.5kg
Dimension: Width 250mm*Height
185mm* Depth 210mm Color: Black Only

The Yaqin CD II is two tubes and is supplied with Chinese 6J1 tubes, the western equivalent for these tube is the 6AK5:

Specification:

Input Power :110V - 240V Available / 50-60Hz
Tube :6J1 x 2
Input signal : 0.55V
Frequency : 5Hz- 500KHz(-1dB)
Harmony Distorted :0.15%(1KHz)
SNR : 60dB (A)
Input Jack :1 group
Output Jack :1 group
Weight :3.5kg
Size Dimension : Width 250mm*Height 185mm* Depth 210mm
Colour:Black Body

Buffers are usually added if you have a long length of cable between your source and amplifier, some add tube buffers because they wish to change to a tube sound and a tube buffer will acheive this. The CD-1 I beleive is discontinued by Yaqin and is now replaced by the CD 2, however NOS of the CD 1 is still available. I use a CD 2 between phono and amp because of a long length of cable and it has been compared with the MF buffers, beating them easily. Yaqin uses point to point wiring and there are no pcbs. If you audition the Yaqin's then it is a matter of choosing your poison between the 6DJ8 sound or the 6AK5.

 

[fdhfdy]

Buffers are useful, Used to have a cold sound system,it's changed after adding a burson buffer in between my pre-amp and power-amp.it's not tubed buffer but brings much warmer sound to my system

 

[erikzen]

I am using a Little Dot MK III with the pre-amp out to a LISA III amp. I must say I like the sound and it is very easy to switch between a straight tube sound and a sort of hybrid sound the combo gives me. I can also easily switch to a straight SS sound just by switching the interconnects directly to the LISA III from my source.

In theory I agree with the less components in the signal chain the better approach, but there is no denying I am able to tweak the sound using both components. It's fun to have the flexibility.

At some point I will probably switch to a better tube amp and then just run both the SS and the tube amps separately. While I save my pennies for a new amp I'm satisfied with this setup.