Trust Your Ears...
May 1, 2010 at 5:10 AM Post #136 of 165
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Posts
17,319
Likes
10,839
Location
Fukuoka, Japan
Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy*Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I am not trying to prove that, again, only reveal what I heard. I do think something of that significance justifies a thread about it. I only want to say personally with my limited experience, I did not get any increase, despite expecting it based on my research before buying.


Nobody is trying to get you to change your opinion about your experience, we are trying to explain WHY you had the experience you did and why people have had different experiences.
smily_headphones1.gif
 
May 1, 2010 at 5:11 AM Post #137 of 165

Pricklely Peete

Franken modder
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Posts
4,188
Likes
26
Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy*Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I am not trying to prove that, again, only reveal what I heard. I do think something of that significance justifies a thread about it. I only want to say personally with my limited experience, I did not get any increase, despite expecting it based on my research before buying.


Where you go wrong is the inference that these limited experiences (by your own admission) lead to your conclusion that all amps (within a budget range) cannot be any better than the ones you've had exposure to. No one is arguing with you about the legitimate question you've asked, it's your conclusion that most take issue with (myself included).

I'm willing to wager that if you keep auditioning and borrowing gear you'll come across a combination that changes your mind and your current stance entirely. It wouldn't be the first time such a thing has happened around here.

I feel you need to set a baseline preferably from a really good system (attend a local meet if you can), having that reference point is needed to judge where you are now in relation to where you want end up (close to that reference point or surpass it). You'll find that source material quality (mastering/recording and format) is crucial to getting the most from your gear and by the same token that reference source material allows you judge any prospective additions to your system. Sometimes it's easier judge somethings relative worth by subtracting it from the system and then listening carefully to well known track noting any changes.

My 2 cents FWIW

Peete.
 
May 1, 2010 at 8:56 AM Post #138 of 165

baka1969

Chaser of Ghosts
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Posts
3,443
Likes
82
Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif
In my experience, low-impedance cans such as the Grados and Denons respond more to changes in amps, presumably due to greater current being available. Higher impedance cans, such as HD580/600/650 require amps with a higher sustainable voltage swing for a difference to be apparent. So people's impressions here about the effect of buying an EF2 or whatever don't contradict, it's just the differences in their headphones.


It's funny how we all experience things differently. I found the opposite to be true. My Grados were less effected by amp changes beyond a certain point and the 701 and 650 were effected more depending on the amp I use. Using the example of the iBasso D2+ Boa, Headroom Micro and GLite, I found that Grados sounded more similar between the three amps than either the AKG and Senn. The latter two sounded much more different with each amp.

As for the OP, just consider yourself fortunate and enjoy your music. If there was only one right answer there wouldn't be so many variables and so many choices.
 
May 1, 2010 at 11:11 AM Post #139 of 165

Prog Rock Man

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Jul 2, 2009
Posts
3,803
Likes
147
Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy*Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif
All I wanted to do is show my option and hear others, not get into a in depth technical discussion. This thread has succeeded in doing so for me.


And me, keep it up Crazy*Carl. I am glad you have raised this issue and I totally understand your apparent frustration at not hearing what others claim to hear or say is easy to hear.

My position is that I do not hear a lot of what others say they can and when I can hear a different it is not as great as others make it out to be.
 
May 1, 2010 at 2:02 PM Post #140 of 165

d.g

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Mar 7, 2010
Posts
101
Likes
11
Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy*Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Ya, there is some confusion here.

I don't use my amp with the shuffle. I am comparing the DAC/AMP via my computer directly to my shuffle by itself.



I see, thanks for clearing that up!

People are all different, it is my belief that we all hear things differently and this is why its hard to talk about hifi equipment without generalising a little, but it could be that you simply don't hear things the same as a lot of other people (i.e. the vast majority of the head-fi community) as generally speaking the things you are describing are not the norm.

A low quality amplifier such as the one found inside your shuffle, my ipod and many other portable source players can still output a signal that is acceptable for the masses and can drive equipment to loud volumes (but don't associate loudness with ability or quality), it doesn't make them hifi though, my all in one home cinema system can drive to very loud levels playing compressed movie soundtracks but is it hifi? Not a chance.

A quality amplifier will not change the basic sound of the source, but it exists to give proper control over the phone/loudspeaker it is there to drive, it should offer greater headroom, dynamics and separation than a cheaper alternative and lower distortion levels too which should all add up to a much cleaner sound.

If I plug my 650's into my ipod it will work, but it cannot drive them properly and the result is a harsher sound that is hard on the ears, the bass is overblown and boomy and very lacking in speed and control, through the line out and amplifier and there is the control and separation, allied to greater headroom that I mentioned above, bass notes hit harder and stop faster, treble doesn't hurt the ears and much longer listening periods can be sustained.

I am not trying to sound better than you because I can discern differences in equipment, I have no answer for why you cannot, but you must try other stuff and not generalise in your thoughts, I would investigate your amp/dac a little, is it faulty perhaps? I am sure the manufacturer would be disheartened to hear that in your opinion it is no better than a mass produced ipod shuffle!

Regarding music as a hobby, I think it is, music on its own can be a pastime/hobby anywhere but I think it develops into a more interesting one when hifi is involved.
 
May 1, 2010 at 2:09 PM Post #141 of 165

gbacic

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Posts
717
Likes
11
It's funny to see the thread "Amp for HD800's, budget around $2000" above this one.
 
May 1, 2010 at 3:02 PM Post #142 of 165

Happy Camper

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Oct 27, 2006
Posts
9,043
Likes
260
Location
STL area
Quote:

Originally Posted by d.g /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I see, thanks for clearing that up!

People are all different, it is my belief that we all hear things differently and this is why its hard to talk about hifi equipment without generalising a little, but it could be that you simply don't hear things the same as a lot of other people (i.e. the vast majority of the head-fi community) as generally speaking the things you are describing are not the norm.

A low quality amplifier such as the one found inside your shuffle, my ipod and many other portable source players can still output a signal that is acceptable for the masses and can drive equipment to loud volumes (but don't associate loudness with ability or quality), it doesn't make them hifi though, my all in one home cinema system can drive to very loud levels playing compressed movie soundtracks but is it hifi? Not a chance.

A quality amplifier will not change the basic sound of the source, but it exists to give proper control over the phone/loudspeaker it is there to drive, it should offer greater headroom, dynamics and separation than a cheaper alternative and lower distortion levels too which should all add up to a much cleaner sound.

If I plug my 650's into my ipod it will work, but it cannot drive them properly and the result is a harsher sound that is hard on the ears, the bass is overblown and boomy and very lacking in speed and control, through the line out and amplifier and there is the control and separation, allied to greater headroom that I mentioned above, bass notes hit harder and stop faster, treble doesn't hurt the ears and much longer listening periods can be sustained.

I am not trying to sound better than you because I can discern differences in equipment, I have no answer for why you cannot, but you must try other stuff and not generalise in your thoughts, I would investigate your amp/dac a little, is it faulty perhaps? I am sure the manufacturer would be disheartened to hear that in your opinion it is no better than a mass produced ipod shuffle!

Regarding music as a hobby, I think it is, music on its own can be a pastime/hobby anywhere but I think it develops into a more interesting one when hifi is involved.



Nice analysis.
 
May 2, 2010 at 5:05 AM Post #143 of 165

Crazy*Carl

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
Posts
852
Likes
28
SanJoseCanJunkie showed me this video and it was pretty good

YouTube - Audio Myths Workshop

Though alot of it was over my head, there was some very interesting and sensible areas in the video. I suggest everyone watch at least the first 10 min which talk about human perception and the things we may think we hear when testing.
 
May 2, 2010 at 5:31 AM Post #146 of 165

d.g

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Mar 7, 2010
Posts
101
Likes
11
Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy*Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif
SanJoseCanJunkie showed me this video and it was pretty good

YouTube - Audio Myths Workshop

Though alot of it was over my head, there was some very interesting and sensible areas in the video. I suggest everyone watch at least the first 10 min which talk about human perception and the things we may think we hear when testing.



I watched the first ten minutes but saw nothing that explains or helps to explain your situation to be honest!

Can you tell us what exactly you are trying to say here? As it comes across that you are implying that all equipment is the same and that we are all victims of our own perception?
 
May 2, 2010 at 5:41 AM Post #147 of 165

Crazy*Carl

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
Posts
852
Likes
28
I keep having to repeat the same thing over and over.

I am NOT here to say that all gear is useless.

I am simply stating MY observations.

I want to HEAR others options.

People are coming at this very defensively, and I admit, I came off rather harsh at the beginning. But please, that was not my intention, rather just a friendly discussion.
 
May 2, 2010 at 5:51 AM Post #148 of 165

d.g

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Mar 7, 2010
Posts
101
Likes
11
Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy*Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I keep having to repeat the same thing over and over.

I am NOT here to say that all gear is useless.

I am simply stating MY observations.

I want to HEAR others options.

People are coming at this very defensively, and I admit, I came off rather harsh at the beginning. But please, that was not my intention, rather just a friendly discussion.



Friendly discussion is fine, but is there much of that occurring? Lots has been written to try and understand your situation and encourage you that it might be worth you looking into this subject a little more and not basing your thoughts on 1 single amp/dac but I do not see much discussion coming back from yourself on the subject at all.
 
May 2, 2010 at 6:06 AM Post #149 of 165

Shike

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Posts
1,888
Likes
71
Honestly I'm not surprised.

If you consider the goal of an amp from an engineers standpoint it should be wire with gain. How is this supposed to lead to dramatic improvements unless your other form of amplification is grossly insufficient? For the HD580 it seems that it wouldn't be too difficult a load . . . not requiring to much current or to much voltage.

I'd start eyeballing your source for a final chain of improvement really . . . beyond your actual headphones (depending if you feel they really need an improvement and how you define it).
 
May 2, 2010 at 6:14 AM Post #150 of 165

Crazy*Carl

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
Posts
852
Likes
28
Quote:

Originally Posted by d.g /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Friendly discussion is fine, but is there much of that occurring?


Absolutely. I have taken lots of useful information already.
darthsmile.gif
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top