[papomaster]

Hey all!
 
I'm looking for a phono stage to replace my cambridge 540p. Even better: I'd like to have something outputting a true balanced signal to go in my einar sound vc-01i + AD2000 balanced combo. However, the tonearm wiring and connectors on my SL1200 are only SE, for what it makes...
 
Can a phono preamp output a true balanced signal when plugged with RCA connectors from the turntable? I was thinking about something like a PS audio GCPH for example.

 

[papomaster]

Anyone?

 

[Uncle Erik]

I believe some of the Pass Labs phonostages are balanced. However, I don't know the particulars of getting balanced output from a cartridge. My guess is that you'd have to have a tonearm wired for it, as well. And even if you did, I imagine it would be difficult to eliminate crosstalk on a needle.

From when I looked into it a few years back, I remember that balancing a turntable is tricky and the phonostage offerings are quite slim and pricey. Another reason why I've kept my rig single-ended.

 

[nikongod]

 
Quote:

Can a phono preamp output a true balanced signal when plugged with RCA connectors from the turntable? I was thinking about something like a PS audio GCPH for example.

The tonearm cable from the 1200 is not single ended until you plug it into a single ended input - yes, you can run a balanced phono stage off of an RCA connector.
 
Quote:

I believe some of the Pass Labs phonostages are balanced. However, I don't know the particulars of getting balanced output from a cartridge. My guess is that you'd have to have a tonearm wired for it, as well. And even if you did, I imagine it would be difficult to eliminate crosstalk on a needle.

 
AFAIK (from published schematics) Nelson Pass phono stages are single ended for input, RIAA, and all amplification stages, with a balanced output stage. None of that effects how they sound, which by all accounts I can find is awesome. 
 
Crosstalk is mostly a mechanical problem when playing records. The cabling used has very little effect on this, although you should pay attention to parallel capacitances so you dont muck up the response of certain MM and MC carts.
 
With a balanced input phono stage noise pickup is stupid-low. I have run denon DL103 LOMC without shielded cables into a floating SUT (floating transformers are balanced) and gotten headphone quiet hum. With a shielded cable its amazing.
 
On that note, building an end to end balanced phono stage is VERY difficult because of the problems in getting the EQ's to work together properly. The solution of using 1 EQ network between both phases has escaped many designers.
 
I would say get a single ended phono stage, and look into getting a nice phase splitter to put between it (as well as any other SE junk you may still stoop so low as to use, I'l accept any parasound DACs at scrap prices...) and your balanced gear. you will have many more options to choose from and perhaps will find something that SOUNDS better at a lower price than something that has balanced outputs.

 

[monsieurguzel]

If you are looking for a truly balanced phono stage, look no further than the Atma Sphere MP-3 or MP-1.  Quite expensive but really world class pre-amps / phonos that are fully balanced.  I just purchased a used fully loaded MP-1 and it really sings...also helps that it can drive headphones beautifully.  What makes this phono stage interesting is that it only accepts XLR inputs from the turntable.  The designer points out that phono cartridges are actually balanced and so switching out the tonearm cable to balanced is quite easy.  One of the big benefits is that it kills hum completely.
 
http://atma-sphere.com/products/mp3.html
 
http://atma-sphere.com/products/mp1.html

 

[papomaster]

Hmm, those atma-sphere phono stages look really nice but are wayyyyyy out of my budget right now. I was mostly interested in stuff like a simaudio lp 5.3 (or its new sibling the 310p), or a Ps audio GCPH. From the simaudio website:
 
 
 
Quote:

Balanced outputs are a standard feature, allowing you to take full advantage of connectivity to a balanced preamplifier or integrated for a significant improvement in noise floor, dynamics and midrange transparency.

 
And from the PS audio website:
 
 
 
Quote:

We’ve also managed to make some serious improvements to our original design techniques in the GCPH, by adding a dual mono, balanced signal path and dual mono power supplies.

and
 
 
 
Quote:

Inputs and outputs 
The GCPH is a true balanced design from input to output.  It features the highest quality connectors and you can feed your preamplifier or your power amplifier with either single ended RCA or balanced XLR connectors for best sound.

 
Also the GCPH can be had new for less than 700$ including shipping, which is the kind of price tag I'm aiming for.

 

[immtbiker]

Ray has had one out for 4-5 years now:
 
http://www.raysamuelsaudio.com/products/xr-10b
 
It earned a Class B rating in the Stereophile Components issue a couple of years in a row.

 

[revolink24]

Quote:

Ray has had one out for 4-5 years now:
 
http://www.raysamuelsaudio.com/products/xr-10b
 
It earned a Class B rating in the Stereophile Components issue a couple of years in a row.

 
If only we could all afford Ray Samuels gear. I doubt someone with AD2000s is going to want a $4500 preamp. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's just my intuition speaking.

 

[papomaster]

Indeed.

 

[immtbiker]

I was merely replying to the title of the thread, which focuses on a truly balanced phono stage. To me, it would be a waste if you had a phono stage like the XR-10B or the Boulder or the Pass Labs, to use it only for headphones.
 
It would have more of a WAF if you also had it hooked up to a nice entry level high-end speaker system.
I have had the opportunity to compare the RSA to the $29,000 Boulder and I could not hear a difference. Same as the $7500 Manley Steelhead.
 
If you are fortunate enough to own a VPI HR-X or a pair of Watt Puppies, or Utopias, then the XR-10B is well worth it's asking price. Again, the question posed was about true balanced phono stages. If you have a Pro-ject or even a Scoutmaster, then you should obviously look elsewhere. It's all relative.
 
What would you use for this Continuum Audio Labs Caliburn turntable & Cobra tonearm (it's a mere $89,900):
 

 


...or, you can step down $20K and "settle" for this Rockport Technologies System III Sirius turntable and tonearm:
 
 

 
Dreaming is a huge part of any hobby, including audio. There's more to life than a $300 portable amp and asking
"What's the best headphones for under $100" 

 
 

 

[Cante Ista]

sorry to bump old thread but I want this under my subscriptions and the subscribe button ain't doing it for me.

 

[Actualsizeaudio]

These are worth a shot for sure, though I don't have one:
 
http://www.channld.com/seta/

 

[watchnerd]

Project Phono Box RS has balanced inputs / outputs.