TRINITY AUDIO ENGINEERING LAUNCH NEW CAMPAIGN FOR HIGH-END SPORTS IEM's
Jan 10, 2016 at 12:12 PM Post #436 of 713
 
Thats a good suggestion, my only concern is that we always have a very large number of non english speaking backers and dont want to confuse anything for them.

In regatds to early bird prices these will be amazing value but will all depend on your definition of affordable
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What about adding to our total pledge amt for the better shipping, similar to how we paid for the BT and Pono lanyards? If KS won't allow it, maybe we can add it on post- Kickstarter via Backerkit or the Trinity web store.

I personally will be stressed about having no way to track a high(er) cost item like the Phantoms. Being blind about my Atlas (and Hyperion/Deltas) is bad enough
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I don't mind the waiting, it's the blindness to delivery status that bothers me.

EDIT: US buyer here

I think that a better accounting for the costs of tracked shipping necessary. This might call for third party fulfillment. If every backer pays a touch more, I think this can be arranged. @Bobtrinity I will look up some fulfillment companies and send along to you if you like, I follow a few kickstarter gurus and can probably get the info, but not today.
 
Jan 10, 2016 at 12:53 PM Post #437 of 713
I don't think the wait is unreasonable. I think people are forgetting that this isn't a typical product release or sale. Getting the product a month after expected release is pretty awesome for a Kickstarter campaign.

This isn't sony or sennheiser releasing a product with millions pre-invested in planning and distribution. This is Bob. A guy who gave us all something awesome for a great price within a reasonable time frame.

Thanks, Bob.
 
Jan 10, 2016 at 1:00 PM Post #438 of 713
I don't think the wait is unreasonable. I think people are forgetting that this isn't a typical product release or sale. Getting the product a month after expected release is pretty awesome for a Kickstarter campaign.

This isn't sony or sennheiser releasing a product with millions pre-invested in planning and distribution. This is Bob. A guy who gave us all something awesome for a great price within a reasonable time frame.

Thanks, Bob.


Our first campaign we did have issues with shipping, was unprepared, tried to outsource and that went wrong.

But on the Atlas campaign we had shipped 90% within the stated time and the balance only a few days later.

I think we are really on top of the speed of processing shipments now, the rest is down to the postal service.

Thanks for the kind words, really appreciated.
 
Jan 10, 2016 at 1:08 PM Post #439 of 713
Sadly discounts wont be as heavy. The tech going into these is far more costly. For example the pures have over £100 worth of drivers before we get into anything else.


ah i see, thats understandable, just a suggestion but maybe you could cobsider give a better price for those who more than one produxts maybe give better deal for rhose who buy pure and bass or all three compare those who only buy one products :)
 
Jan 10, 2016 at 1:15 PM Post #441 of 713
  Spacing the campaigns is another option. Do Pure and Bass in March, and then Air and Sabre in May or June. This will allow your loyal fans to gather resources for multiple purchases and allow your brand to get more reputation and make the kickstarters more successful. With four headphones in one kickstarter, fulfillment will be complicated and you'll end up with too many pledge levels. Too many pledge levels will confuse your backers, also.  I'd personally prefer having pledge levels for singles, pairs and for one of each, with campaigns split up. This would result in an easily manageable 6 pledge levels.

 
Only one issue with splitting it all up.  Ultimately the KS still has to get across the line (ie meet requirement for fulfilment).  Splitting into multiple KS campaigns increases the likelihood that one or two particular ranges won't - especially with these being in the higher tier.
 
Jan 10, 2016 at 2:00 PM Post #442 of 713
 
  Spacing the campaigns is another option. Do Pure and Bass in March, and then Air and Sabre in May or June. This will allow your loyal fans to gather resources for multiple purchases and allow your brand to get more reputation and make the kickstarters more successful. With four headphones in one kickstarter, fulfillment will be complicated and you'll end up with too many pledge levels. Too many pledge levels will confuse your backers, also.  I'd personally prefer having pledge levels for singles, pairs and for one of each, with campaigns split up. This would result in an easily manageable 6 pledge levels.

 
Only one issue with splitting it all up.  Ultimately the KS still has to get across the line (ie meet requirement for fulfilment).  Splitting into multiple KS campaigns increases the likelihood that one or two particular ranges won't - especially with these being in the higher tier.

The Vario failed twice because of being at the same time as the Atlas/Helio KS. I think spacing allows you to adjust your goals based on how well the first KS does. Only Bob among us knows how much money he needs to make in total to be able to produce the Phantom full line-up.
 
Jan 10, 2016 at 2:48 PM Post #443 of 713
  The Vario failed twice because of being at the same time as the Atlas/Helio KS. I think spacing allows you to adjust your goals based on how well the first KS does. Only Bob among us knows how much money he needs to make in total to be able to produce the Phantom full line-up.

 
You actually just reinforced my point.  The Vario failed because it was a separate product on a separate KS introduced too close to an existing KS launch.  If it had been part of the Atlas/Helios launch (one KS), it would have run, met the requirements, and Bob would be making them now.
 
If you have too many separate KS running too close together you won't get support.
 
Delta, Hyperion and Techne worked well because they were included together.  If you split the Techne out into a separate campaign, it probably would have failed.
 
My thought would be to keep the new series all together - under one KS. 
 
Jan 10, 2016 at 3:30 PM Post #444 of 713
  That aside, still waiting patiently for my pair to arrive (with fingers crossed)
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,
M.

 
Apparently crossing fingers helps - these beauties arrived 2.5 hours ago
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.
 
Very preliminary first impressions:
  1. Form: In a word - Amazing. Loving my matte black.They look like fine quality art and are a bit smaller than I imagined (huge ears here, so all your small ear shots and unit close-ups misled me somewhat
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    ).
  2. Fit: "Default" tips ended up a perfect fit. The units are very comfortable, but I have a (very) minor suggestion - The lower edge of the triangular area meant for easy fit can be smoothed a little so when it touches the anti-tragus it will do so more gently :wink:.
  3. Sound (preliminary with zero burn-in):
    1. Like the Delta - Pleasantly very detailed and clean overall.
    2. Red filters - Somewhat too V shaped for me, but the level of detail retention is impressive.
    3. Purple filters - Sound perfect with the Dacport HD. For now the bass properties sound just right to my ears so I'm not even tempted to try the yellows (will probably change as I start switching sources).
 
They will probably end up being the best iems I've had the pleasure of owning ..that is until the Phantoms strike
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.
 
Thanks for making my day Bob
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!
M.
 
Jan 10, 2016 at 3:59 PM Post #445 of 713
Count me in for the memory cable. I'll buy one the minute they become avail. It looks great.
 
Jan 10, 2016 at 4:50 PM Post #446 of 713
Yeah count me in for the memory cable too, they look excellent.
 
I've just done a bit more experimenting with the different tips and I've realised that the earphones probably weren't properly inserted in my ears and that's why the fit wasn't as secure as it should have been. It's a bit embarrassing to have to admit, but I think it was a simple case of using tips that were too large and so weren't inserting as deeply as they should have been. I've switched to the smallest silicone tips and the fit and sound quality are now out of this world 
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Jan 10, 2016 at 5:37 PM Post #447 of 713
Really interested in these as my first set of sports headphones to add to my collection of headphones I've just begun. However, I will be moving into my first apartment on my own in the summer and having to save for that will be putting me off on getting a pair of these. Definitely will be looking into them once financially stable! 
 
Jan 10, 2016 at 6:54 PM Post #448 of 713
 
  The Vario failed twice because of being at the same time as the Atlas/Helio KS. I think spacing allows you to adjust your goals based on how well the first KS does. Only Bob among us knows how much money he needs to make in total to be able to produce the Phantom full line-up.

 
You actually just reinforced my point.  The Vario failed because it was a separate product on a separate KS introduced too close to an existing KS launch.  If it had been part of the Atlas/Helios launch (one KS), it would have run, met the requirements, and Bob would be making them now.
 
If you have too many separate KS running too close together you won't get support.
 
Delta, Hyperion and Techne worked well because they were included together.  If you split the Techne out into a separate campaign, it probably would have failed.
 
My thought would be to keep the new series all together - under one KS. 

Potato/potahto. I didn't reinforce your point, we had different inflections. Running two Kickstarters that aren't overlapping is not the same as what happened with the Vario, which actually had people saying that they didn't have the money to buy both products because the Kickstarters were running at the same time as the Atlas/Helio Kickstarter. I backed on both Vario campaigns but knew that both would fail due to the concurrent and successful Atlas/Helio Kickstarter and due to the size of the funding goal. Having Kickstarters staggered apart allows you to keep getting money from the same backers, if you ask backers to put a ton forward at once, you run the risk of not having as many multiple buyers. The big advantage of Kickstarter is it is a bit addictive, people get revved up for the bargain, but they still have limits on their finances. Putting all the products under one Kickstarter doesn't eliminate the limited funds problem.
 
It is also the case that companies with multiple successful Kickstarter do better in future Kickstarters. I'm an avid boardgamer as well as audio enthusiast, and you can use one campaign to recruit for the next campaign. That and boardgame companies don't run concurrent Kickstarters, but they might run them two to three months apart, and people spend similar amounts of money on boardgame Kickstarters to audio Kickstarters. I've spent $1700 on a boardgame Kickstarter (I was profiteering), and many spend $400 on games with miniatures every couple months. People love the bargain.
 
One of Bob's problems that he's run into in his campaigns is that his goal is usually pretty high and his currency is in £. Having a currency that is stronger than other currencies doesn't help people buy-in. If Bob had a USA bank account or distribution partner, he'd probably get more money coming in. Also, people back by whether something is looking like it will be successful, lower goals enhance the perception of probability of success. This is another reason why splitting the campaigns may make more sense, because then both can have lower goals. If the first campaign is really successful, then the second can have an even lower goal. Bob has a mixed record on campaign success, with 3 failures to two successes. I think building momentum is a better strategy than putting all his eggs into one basket, having a higher funding goal because of this, and then having to overcome perceptions. I believe in Bob's product. I think it does a disservice to his abilities to have them fail on Kickstarter. If Bob wants to do a Kickstarter that includes all 4 products, he should do it with stretch goals. I'm still inclined to think he'll make more money with separate Kickstarters. With a pledge manager, he can make even more money.
 
We can't know how many backers would have bought the Varios if they had been in with the Atlas, but I don't think they would have been enough to get them produced given that IEMs and on ears are related but not identical headphone markets, and many backers already knew about both campaigns. That Vario campaign had a £100,000 funding goal, which is really high. Bundling £100k into the Atlas/Helio campaign likely would have made all three products not get made. A common mistake for first launches is to have the goal too high. We do know what happened to the Vario for running concurrently. It is just as likely that the problem was too many products for the price points--the Trinity, Hyperion and Techne Kickstarter had inexpensive backer levels and a lower £40k goal, so isn't really a fair comparison.
 
I don't buy your argument, Brooko, as my previous experience on Kickstarter and with failed campaigns does not support it, but neither of us have enough data to reach statistical significance, so we'll have to agree to disagree if you're more into frequentist statistics. :wink:
 
Jan 10, 2016 at 7:02 PM Post #449 of 713
We'll agree to disagree.
 
The Phantom series is a related product line - 
Phantom Pure
Phantom Bass
Phantom Air
Phantom Sabre
 
The last thing I'd be doing is splitting them into 2 (or four) separate KS campaigns.
 
Jan 10, 2016 at 9:51 PM Post #450 of 713
Both sides have merit here. However, I'm siding with Brooko in this case and I think Glassmonkey, you're forgetting about efficiencies of production.
 
I agree running the Vario at the same as the Atlas/Helio was a mistake, and I too backed both times and was not surprised either time when Bob cancelled. But you don't gain anything from running those campaigns at the same time or by combining them - different markets, and more importantly, very different products to make. 
 
For the Phantom series, when it comes down to it, they're all IEMs. Same drivers in different configs, and mostly the same materials. The savings from producing them at the same time means that the Kickstarter funding goal can be significantly reduced, avoiding the fate of the Vario. 
 
Its not a matter of one $100k campaign vs two $50k campaigns, its two $50k campaigns vs, say, an $80k campaign. And thats only half of it.
 
The other half is that, like Brooko, I don't see an effective way to split the campaign. The Pure and Bass are (I believe) the main drivers of the campaign and are mostly similar and hence efficient to produce together, but with one major distinction - combine that with the high cost, and it is very likely that most people will be interested in one or the other, no matter if they are in the same campaign or even months apart. Similarly, those who are rich and/or mad enough to get both will do so regardless.
 
To continue with the money examples, you could run each separately for $50k - but say one failed but got to $30k, or both failed but each got to $40k, then the single $80k would have succeeded.
 
The Sabre and Air are niche, and I'm not confident that they'd get funded, in their own respective campaigns or together (and I say this as someone who is interested in them too). By designing them as part of the Phantom series - and again they're still IEMs, drivers and raw materials are similar - they can ride the coat-tails of the Pure and Bass. Of course,  I can see there being people who back the campaign for the Pure and/or Bass and are interested in the Sabre and/or Air but can no longer afford them; this is where splitting the campaigns would help, but again with no real way of doing this, I'd rather see them in this campaign than (likely) not exist at all. 
 

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