[Keiso]

Hi everyone,

Today, I went to the local high-end audioshop to check out their Stax headphones. I heard that they have a sale there, so I wanted to find out if I can get a good deal on a pair of "earspeakers"

Well, they had a sale, alright. But the price is still HIGH

If I had to buy one set, the only one I could afford right now is the Basic System II, which costs $500 at sale.

I own a pair of Sennheiser HD590, which I love and enjoy. So I compared the Staxs to the Senns and tried to find out if the Stax are $400 better sounding

(note: Sennheisers are cheap in Europe. I bought my 590s for $120, and they are selling the 600s for around $150-160)

So here's how it went: The first impression of the Staxs were VERY good. The quality of the materials were high, and everything seemed solid. The earspeakers themselves were very light, much lighter than I thought. And most importantly, they were EXTREMELY comfortable to wear.

On to the music test.... they were good sounding, alright. But I can't help but say I was a little bit disappointed. I was expecting night and day difference between these and my Senns, but no....

My Senns have better bass, no doubt. Both the Staxs and the Senns are very detailed in the mid and high range, but I think the Staxs are a bit more natural sounding, flatter. The Senns feel more "energitic", sort of. (Probably because the better bass of the Senns)

So in the end, I didn't buy the Staxs. I think the Basic System II is flatter sounding than my Senns, but my Senns are more versatile, as I can hook it up to anything I want, and they are not really worse sounding than the Staxs. I know some people complain that the 590s are bright, but I find the 590s to sound just right for my taste. So I guess if you are the 580s kind of guy, you'll like the Staxs too.

I tried the other top models of Staxs as well, to see how high I have to go to get a great improvement. I had to go way up to the SR-4040 set, the Signature. But it costs like 15 times the price of the Senns.... I also tried the Omega II, the very top model of Stax. But they did not feel so comfortable on my head as the other models, because the design is totally different. But hell yeah, the sound is high-end. You'll probably have to get an Orpheus set from Sennheiser to beat that....

 

[Tuberoller]

Keiso,
You obviously are not an electrostat type of guy.Some people love the electrstatic sound some don't care for it,especially through headphones.You will never get the big bass performance from an electrostat that you miss from your senns.I love the beautiful, richly detailed midrange performance of an electrostat.I have never enjoyed a female vocal performance more than on the Stax electrostats.that Basic II system is the best deal going in an electrostat and represents the lowest entrance price into the Stax sound.

 

[Keiso]

Actually, if I had the extra cash, I would have probably bought the Basic System II today.

The Senns may have better bass, but yes, the transparent sound of the Staxs were really appealing too.

Now, maybe if I didn't buy the Senns, and had to choose now between the 590s and the Staxs, I might have probably gone for the Stax model. Too bad I couldn't lend it for testing this weekend. I've got tons of CDs I would like to hear on the Staxs...

I am fully aware of what electrostatic sound is like. Me personally think that the ESL 989 from Quad are the best speakers in the world. That's why I went to try the Stax earspeakers, because I like electrostatic sound. I just couldn't justify the purchase of the Basic System II as I've already have my Senns..... especially as I'm a student with a limited budget

 

[jpelg]

Tuberoller,

What are your thoughts on the smaller, more portable SR-001/3/5 systems? Does Stax still make them?

Any comparisons to Ety's are welcome, also.

 

[Vertigo-1]

Keiso, how bright was the treble of the Omegas compared to the 404s? Do you still think the Omegas lack bass relative to your 590s, and to the lower end Staxs? What amp were you listening to the Omegas with, the SRM-717 (solid state) or the SRM-007t (tube)? The 007t has three plugs in the front, the 717 has two.

Somebody recently compared the 404s to the Omegas, and said the Omegas sounded much smoother and the 404s sounded much brighter. Do you agree with that? Did the Omega's treble sound rolled off compared to your 590s? Was the midrange warm or neutral?

 

[Keiso]

That's not easy to reply....

I spent most of the time with the basic system. Not so much with the 4040 set and the Omega set.

The Omega was hooked up to the 007t.

The bass on the Omega was not lacking at all. Hard to say if it was better than my Senns or worse, but it was "there". The 4040 also had good bass, but I was more keen on trying out the Omegas, so I did not notice the sound characteristics of the 4040 that much.

I can't really give a detailed explanation by just listen to the sets for 45 mins at the shop. All I can say, is that both the 4040 set and the Omega set were the ones which did the term "earspeakers" justice, meaning they really sounded like speakers, not headphones.

I can't say that the 4040 set was overbright. It did not seem to be brighter than my Senns, I think.

As for Omega being smoother than 4040.... yes, you can say that. I found the sound more pleasing to listen to, just a little. The Omegas were not that comfortable to wear, so that kinda distracted me a little too.

Sound quality aside, people have to keep in mind that the Omega II + 007t costs 3-4 times more than the 4040 set too. And the 404 earspeakers were much more comfortable to wear. Unless you're a well-established guy with a steady income and are crazy about headphones, it's not easy to justify getting the Omegas over the 4040 set...... (or maybe it's just me, a young student who already thinks the price of the Basic System II is a bit high already.....)

 

[RickG]

Vert, I don't mean to butt in, but as we speak, I'm trading the Omega's and the 600's back and forth on the same source/recording, same pre-amp, same volume level, relative to their respective amps.....ie, Melos SHA-Gold for the Senns, and 007t for the Stax.

I think the Melos/Senn comb has a more "open" sound, with top extension more strident than the Omega's. The mids on the Senns are very warm, but still out front, and "sweet"...that's the signiture of the HD600's IMHO. Bass is louder and more "flabby" with the Senns. This is where personal taste really applies. Yes, you'll get more of a thump from the Senns, but the bottom extension on the Stax phones is much deeper and tighter.

Ok, I know you lean to a brighter sound , and the Senn's with the Melos will provide that.....(I'm using the 600's in this equation simply because that's what I'm listening to my new amp with at the moment. You can extend these properties to other phones which really "highlight" the response from mids---> up, such as the K501's or to the next extreme, the Grado SR 325's.) To me, in this particular equation.....the Senn's sound more open and almost "hot'' where the Omega's just plain sound more natural . Piano notes and snare drum hits sound "real" on the electrostatic's. Cymbals are brighter and tend to sound more "nasal" on the Senn's, but again, not as absolute, or realistic in presence.

I guess it's a matter of realism/color. Both are in some sort of dynamic stasis to one another in every headphone. As to my personal taste, the Omega's are the smooth, realistic of the two phones while the 600's might be more "aurally" exciting. I enjoy them both for their individual, distinctive sound!

Just my 2 cents!

 

[allennokisi]

I hav e both the 2020 and the HD600. The differences that have been brought up here are absolutely true. As expected the Stax are more transparent but lack bass, I don't know if that's because they just don't have it, or just do it correctly. I would say the HD600 have a lot of bass, even compared to my CD3000 and SR-125.

I actually split the listening time between the HD600, 2020, and CD3000 pretty evenly. I even listen to all genres with all those phones. They're all great cans and just chose which one I'll listen to like using a tone control.

The sony's and the stax are cheap here in Japan, both well under 40,000 yen. The HD600s are expensive at 56,000. I think that with the amp, the 2020 set is a good deal. Any top of the line dynamics combined with an amp will probably be more expensive.

The amps I use are a transformer coupled 6BM8 tube amp, my own DIY SE class A solid state design, a Audio Technica HA-2 (crap) and various resistor attenuated amps. But there isn't a combination that can overcome any of the cans basic personalities.

 

[Tuberoller]

I have heard all the Stax line.I think that the Basic syatem II is the best deal in electrostats.I didn't like the small "earspeakers".They did not sound natural at all to me.They are small buds attached to a headband and were not very comfortable either.I took a pic and posted a one line thought of them in my thread from CES in Las Vegas.I was not impressed by their non-existent bass and shrieking treble.until you get into the higher end Stax with the tube drivers,You will get no huge improvement in sound over the basic system.

 

[Keiso]

Allennokisi-san: Nihonjin desu ka. Kochirawa Keiso desu. Yoroshikune

Can you direct me to any online Japanese audio shop which sells the Basic System II cheaply, like you said under 40,000 yen?

I might pick it up next time I go back to Japan, if it's that cheap

Tuberoller: I agree with you about the Basic System II being the best deal. Like I said, I didn't get a huge improvement over the 590s until I reached the 4040 set with a tube amp.

I've been thinking all night yesterday if I should get the Basic System or not. I'm happy with my Senns, but I think I'll enjoy the transparent sound of the Staxs a lot too.

The only problem I have with the Basic System is that there are no analog output. I mean, I use my Sony SCD-XB940 player for music listening, and it has only one analog output (which high end CD player has more than one pair anyway.....). If I hook up the Staxs to my CD player, I don't have any outputs left to my speakers

Gotta find a solution to that first. Anyone got any suggestions?

 

[Keiso]

allennokisi-san:
Aa! Mitsuketazo! Stax Basic System II for 36,000 yen!
http://www.shimamusen.co.jp/

Man, Sennheisers are expensive in Japan! Getting the HD600 and a decent amp is going to cost more than the Stax Classic System II! Might be better if we buy from Europe instead. I think Sennheiser has international guarantee (not sure, but that's the impression I got).

OK, here's a UK shop with VERY good prices on Sennheiser headphones:
http://www.askdirect.co.uk/

I bought my HD590 from there. Note that the HD600 costs 120 British pund, but if you are ordering them outside the European Union, you can take away the VAT, which is on 17,5%. So that leaves the HD600 for about 100 punds only. I don't know about you guys, but for a pair of HD600, I think that price is dirt cheap.

But if you are thinking of ordering from this place, keep in mind that the postage is going to be quite expensive too (seems like postage is high in GB, and Askdirect has to buy insurance for shippings overseas too). In fact, don't be surprised if they charge you another 50 punds or more for shipping! But even so, I think the price is still good......

 

[allennokisi]

36,000 yen is the basic street price in Japan, almost everyone in Akiba sells it for that. But it's not that great of a discount compared to the list price, only like 10-15% off. I'm glad you found a place to get them, because I couldn't think of anywhwere to tell you. The 2020 should hold you off until you become a doctor, then you can get the SR007's!!

 

[Keiso]

Isha ni naru koto wa, mada 3-4 nen desu kedo....

So the basic street price is only 36,000 yen for a set of 2020....

I didn't even know Akiba sell Stax gears. God, you can really find everything in Akiba, ne?

I don't like to hang around Akiba that much, unless there are some videogames stuff I'm looking for. That place is getting scarier and scarier.... I mean, eki no tonari mo "otona no konbini" ga arundesu..... tsugi wa nandeshou?

Maybe you can tell me what's the lowest price you've seen for the 2020 in Akiba? Can't go back to Japan anytime soon, as my studies are killing me here in Norway.... I might get my friend to pick it up for me instead

 

[allennokisi]

I've never seen them under 35,000, so it's not worth the effort to save a couple thousand yen. Yamagiwa, Ishimaru, Dynamic Audio, etc. will all be competetive.

 

[Keiso]

Yes, I agree.

God, I went back to Stax's homepage and checked out the retailers list in Tokyo. I've been to Yamagiwa, Ishimaru etc. hundred of times, and I've never seen the Staxs there before. That's because I've never thought I would find them there, so I never looked for them.... I guess Stax in Japan is not that much of a big deal as in other countries. Here in Norway, they are all placed to high-end stuff which costs 100s of thounsands dollars, which you don't find in shopping malls like Yamagiwa, for example....