[TheMiddleSky]

No, I had bowl pads which I still have from a former pair of GS1000i and tried those. Same thing.

I see, I guess your preference simply something with lighter character then. Something like RS2x or GS3000x.

 

[shampoosuicide]

[ deleted ]

 

[audezenutssound]

I know that it might be an unpopular opinion around head-fi but I genuinely was disappointed over time in my Abyss 1266 Phi TC. I auditioned the original on a visit to NYC many years ago, so you know what they had it hooked up to some of the best of the best setups (for that time) and I liked it a lot. Then, I auditioned the Abyss 1266 Phi TC for two weeks in my own house. I stuck them on a GS-X Mini, a Linear Tube Audio Z10, the amp portion of a Bricasti M3h, and even lugged them around to local Hifi shops and headfi meets, where I was allowed a plethora of various amps/dacs (at Hifi shops) and the various amps/dacs at head-fi meets. This included roughly two dozen of various amp/dac combinations, ranging from some of the best and most expensive amp/dacs on the market, which gave it ample power and gave the Abyss a great chain to stand behind. I initially was incredibly wowed with the soundstage, the subbass, and the detail retrieval. The resolution on it was great. I bought it and used it for about half a year either on a daily basis or on a semi-daily basis. I started noticing things that really troubled me as time went on...

For starters, it had a hyper-realistic AKA artificial way of enhancing and presenting music. Imagine the sound that a guitar string would make if strung too tightly. The timbre and decay on it revealed itself more and more to be artificial and reminiscent of either plastic or metal. I say this because Stax and Focals often get a bad rep for timbre. People joke that estats sound plastic while Focals sound metallic. With the Abyss 1266 Phi TC, I somehow felt that it sounded less listenable than my now sold Focals or many of the estats that I've heard over the years. The only saving grace for the Abyss was that I was using it with a tube amp (my Linear Tube Audio Z10) and this heavily softened up the decay, helped to mask the bizarre timbre, and fill in some voids in the FR where it otherwise was lacking. For example, my tube amp really helped flesh out the lack of midrange that the Abyss TC had. When switching to some of my best solid state setups (a lot of which are mostly now sold, hence why they aren't in my signature), I often felt that the wonky sound quality of the headphone was just too much for me to deal with and remain sane over. For what it's worth, at one point I even owned several things that Abyss themselves recommended on the website, allegedly being very complementary gear for it. So, I lugged it around to more and more head-fi meets. That last head-fi meet I was at had several amps capable of driving the Abyss to perfection, as well as everything from a Chord TT2, two versions of a Schiit Yggdrasil, more than one Bricasti dac, and just a plethora of stuff. I swapped this, I swapped that. I would stick this dac onto that amp. I would rinse and repeat 20 times until I came to the realization that I was trying to put a band-aid on a headphone that I felt was heavily flawed. However, I spent $5,000 on a headphone that I had very clearly fell out of love with, and I was trying to make it work. It was a lot of money to spend and I wanted to absolutely love it. Truly, I've gotten so much hate for speaking my mind about this issue, but people seem to forget that I spent the money on this and put in the time to make this work. I wanted to love it so much, truly. It was rather disheartening to start feeling this way, if I'm honest. No one wants to spend that much money, invest in something like this, only to decide that they made a mistake. It happens, though. I even got my friends and my spouse involved. I'd have people A/B it with various setups and ask if they were hearing what I was hearing. When even co-workers and family members started pointing out certain flaws, even if they didn't know how to word them accurately, it just started confirming more and more that these headphones were not for me. The initial honeymoon phase was lovely, but I fell out of love with it very quickly.

When I'd try to voice my opinions in the community, I'd often get told that: "Well, your setup just isn't good enough.", to which I'd tell people that I must have tried these on at least 30 different combinations of hi-end gear on my frantic half-year long quest to fall back in love with these. I did everything short of buying the JPS Labs Super Conductor cable to try to improve these. At the end of the day, the wonky FR, the artificial tonality and timbre, the hollowed out midrange, and the way that they overly sharpened sound and music really started to get to me more and more. Truly, the only way I was starting to enjoy these was on a tube amp and a softer dac than my Bricasti, because it applied somewhat of a glossy blurring effect to the flaws that I was hearing. Imagine putting concealer on a blemish. I felt like I was fighting with my chain to mask the flaws that these headphones had so that I could become capable of enjoying the experience. I feel as though when I did mention these issues to other people (off head-fi), I even got told that it's me. The headphones are perfect! Of course they are. Some of the best on the planet, right? So who am I to argue with perfection? My listening skills got called into question and I got told by several people that my inability to enjoy these as much as everyone else was enjoying them clearly meant that something inside my ears was broken. However, I spent thousands of dollars trying to make these work. I gave up a lot of my time in trying to make these work for me. I spent months trying to make these work for me on a daily basis. It was a real dedicated effort, and if I'm not cool enough to be in the "I own the best headphones on the planet club", then so be it. I tried posting these very same impressions in the Abyss thread here on head-fi, but that didn't go over so well. Not sure why I expected anything less. There are hundreds of pages of nothing but circlejerking in there, where the owners congratulate themselves on owning the most perfect headphone in all of existence, so I assumed that in-between all of those pages of praise, that they could have handled my negative opinion of these... but nope! Even as a previous owner with a fair share of experience with these, I sometimes feel as though my negative opinions concerning TOTL models that I myself used to own often become invalidated, because this is the internet, and negative opinions = a big no no on here. It is what it is.

I've also been told that I'm too poor to sit with the cool kids because my signature doesn't have any TOTL models anymore (unless you consider HD800S to still be one) which is why I've since included all the things I sold as well. I've owned several TOTL models, and me selling a lot of my TOTL models was the result of similar disappointments that I'd gather over time. Although I must say that Abyss 1266 Phi TC sits in the #1 spot for my biggest TOTL disappointment yet. I've owned and sold the Abyss 1266 Phi TC, Meze Empyrean, Focal Stellia, Focal Clear, Focal Radiance, Audio-Technica ADX5000, among other things. The other ones weren't as dramatic of a falling out with. For example, I adored my Focal Stellia, but the cramped and claustrophobic soundstage eventually just proved to not be my thing. Plus, I no longer had a need for closed backs whatsoever. My Meze Empyrean was an odd one. I adored it for music with deep subbass, such as electronica, but felt as though it really lacked everywhere else. I kept it around because it was insanely good fun with EDM, Vaporwave, and music of that sort, but I didn't much care for it in many genres and situations. It was a very niche headphone that I enjoyed immensely in certain situations, but it was just too expensive to be sitting on my shelf just to pull out for a genre specific event. I'm not opposed to TOTL models, and certainly can afford them, but I've yet to find one that ticks all the boxes for me. I've done extensive in-home demoing of the Hifiman Susvara and the Raal SR1a as well as everything I've listed that I've sold. I truly just feel that when you manage to get a really nice setup going (in my case, I upgraded my entire chain when I got my speakers in), a lot of lower-end cheaper current production and vintage models sometimes have the ability to scale as you improve your chain. In my case, this is what I've found, and this is why I sold off so many of my TOTL models. I'm still looking for a nice planar magnetic perhaps for that sweet and lush subbass, because I sold the two that ticked those boxes for me (Abyss, Empyrean), but the flaws that I mentioned heavily outweighed the desire for deep subbass. It's a controversial take, but I discovered scaling on accident, and I unfortunately discovered it after I had already owned several TOTL models that I've since sold. When you have some headphones that have the ability to scale, and you upgrade your chain for various different reasons, it's always fun to see your stuff improve and start scaling. In my case, though, I started eyeing the expensive collection on my shelf of TOTL models and started feeling as though many of them had been made out to be redundant or just overall goofy when you consider the price I paid vs the price that I paid for a cheaper model that I was able to squeeze a ton of juice from as my chain improved over the years. Like I said, I do miss some of that deep subbass that I got with my now sold Abyss 1266 Phi TC and my Empyrean, but that's about the only thing I really miss about those two. So, I guess that I'm still on the hunt for a planar magnetic that'll tickle my fancy, but otherwise, I found a lot of the TOTL models that I owned or mentioned to have too many drawbacks that made them not worth trying to live with in the end. Some of them rely on cheap party tricks or are a one trick pony, and that is an extremely alluring thing sometimes, often extending the honeymoon phase for far longer than it should have gone on for. However, when the rose colored glasses come off, you sometimes realize that you spent $5,000 on something that has lost its charm and you no longer even want to use anymore.

Of course, this is just my opinion, and if you absolutely love anything that I mentioned, then keep loving it. Don't let one woman's negative opinion sway you. After all, this is a thread about TOTL disappointments, so I'm just venting about said disappointments. It's not meant to bring anyone down whatsoever.

Did you ever get a chance to hear the 1266 Phi TC with the Z10 and holo May KTE, and SC cable? I'm curious as to how that setup sounds and if it would be worth it to go for.

 

[audezenutssound]

well, there you go.

Do you think that cable alone would have fixed the issues she was referring to about the 1266 TC??

 

[silversurfer616]

Fully understand as I too had the Abyss 1266 Phi with various configurations and was impressed, mainly by the way it rendered drums and bass. After a few months I could only hear bass ….too much of it, whatever song/music I was listening to.
Still, it’s a great headphone, just wasn’t for me.

 

[Strayngs]

For me the 1266 TC was not going to work because I could never be happy with the fit. I would never stop messing with it And that would hurt my enjoyment.

 

[tabness]

Headphones of the 70s,80s,90 and well into the 2000s all were design for classical music. Bass was never a designer specialty. People beg and wish for the legendary headphones to be revive today. If you are not a classical listener, than thats ones of the worst wish list to ever ask for.

Only Dre Beats are truly bass headphones for your genre taste. Most audiophile companies only care for the classical listener. Unless you want Audeze? Than its a 5 to 10% better than beats.

I don't even listen to classical music and I like rap/rock/pop and I still hate the tonality that most of the top of the line stuff is shooting for now. V shaped and Harman and whatever.

For me the later 80s and 90s mostly nailed it in terms of dynamic transducer technology really catching up to electrostatic while aiming for diffuse field(ish) tunings which was the thing at the time.

For all the talk about "technical improvements" and what not, what is the actual result? How much did the ring radiator diaphragm on the HD 800 or the M dome on the Utopia (a phone I actually think was good sound quality wise) really bring us? Lower distortion on sub bass at real loud volumes I guess lol

What really is happening in the electrostatic world as well? MLER2 and MLER3 for STAX, for stuff that supposedly (full disclaimer - I haven't directly heard the X9000 yet, going off trusted impressions here) sounds pretty similar to the 009. I guess the mesh stators on the X9000 will theoretically be more reliable than on the Ω so I'll give STAX that, but they still running into channel imbalance problems to this day lol

I guess on planars there was quite a bit of technical improvement like 10-15 years ago because there was mostly a pause on that type of technology from the 70s. Planars in general don't do anything for my preferences as compared to dynamics and electrostats anyway, and plus I just am not with any of the brands pumping out expensive ass planars.

I'm going to be real shallow here now - these new planars are some of the most ugly phones I have ever seen (although some HiFiMan phones look good as an exception) and seem cheaply built. Even the names of the brands just sound wack: "Audeze" (clever), "HiFiMan" (see ya man), and worst of all, "Abyss" (the hell is this satanic thing even lol?). You asking me to drop thousands of bucks on this garbage? I'm a sucker and have the money to spend on this stuff and I would still never bother. I don't even want to listen to them. At least final has some good looking phones and a classier brand, but still, the D8000/Pro just wouldn't be my preference given it's tuning. I really hope that beautiful X8000 that is coming up brings us something diffuse field with a slight midrange emphasis, but I know that's a pipedream lol

At least there is some true interesting innovation with the ribbon phones, too bad the RAAL design language and color scheme looks like something only an angsty nerd who is about to shoot up his school would like lol

Still, all I hear is about these supposed vast technical improvements, and at least from what I've heard of modern stuff, all I really get in terms of actual audibility is sub bass (which I personally don't care about on headphones and prefer to be lower anyway but I'll give it that) as well as perceived "detail" because of treble spikes (nothing new here though).

Anyway, let me also throw some shade on the phones I really like(d):

SONY MDR CD3000: My favorite sound so far, but these are dorkiest ass headphones to ever wear. It's so freaking ugly on your head. The cheap pleather flaking just adds to it, who wants black dandruff? Also, it's sad what these cost now, I paid $1000 bucks for a basically new old stock one, and now even used ones are approaching that. Even some critiques sound wise, there's a bit of artificialness in the sound on some tracks when compared to some of the phones that just nail a natural tonality, the sub bass distorts at moderately high volumes, and there is a bit of harshness in the highs at times.

STAX SR 009S: The only high end phone that I have a bit of regret selling off, and I still mull over the idea of grabbing a new old stock 009 if I get a good enough deal on it. But it's just artificial sounding at times. Also the reliability concerns for such an expensive product is sad, I know why the channel imbalances tend to happen on electrostats, but why can't STAX sort that out first rather than make MLER8675309 or whatever? Also the STAX community is downright weird (I'm being nice here), I ask about something completely unrelated and get feverish pitches to go and buy the KGSSHV W X YNZ or BHSE F G H I J K LMNOP or whatever lol

SONY MDR R10: I don't get why people consider these beautiful phones. They are hideous when worn, basically as bad as the CD3000. Soundwise, yes on a select few tracks and genres they give this enchanting sound, but let's be real, the CD3000 comes pretty close to that midrange magic on those tracks as well. They also sound flat out boring on a lot of other tracks, and take a step behind in clarity to the CD3000. Also I find these uncomfortable when worn for a while, guess my ears are a little too big.

STAX SR Ω: STAX nailed their goal to get a diffuse field sound from just the headphone with these, and so they sound very natural, but then you listen to something like the SR 30 Professional electrets which gets you a very similar tonality, just missing the last bits of extension on both ends, and of course less of a sense of space. Worst of all, these are the jankiest ass phones ever, even the all plastic cheap SR 30 seems to have a better build than the Ω.

Also a harsher opinion on a so called "legend" - GRADO HP1000 HP1: I remember reading old topics here about how good these were and was smitten and even wanted to get a Melos SHA amp and all that garbage. These were my first kilobuck+ phones, I snagged a new old stock pair with perfect lettering and perfect original foams and all that. They also really got me in on the deep end of this "hobby" (spending money on products is apparently a hobby lol) because before that the most expensive headphone I had was the beyerdynamic T51i and I thought that was pretty crazy money to spend on a freaking headphone. They sound so freaking boring in general, I remember comparing with the T51i and thinking, the hell is this lol, it's not even better. To be fair to these, I did gain more of an appreciation for them as I listened to more stuff and developed my preferences, but I still cannot believe this was considered by some back in the early days of Head-Fi as the best phones ever. I guess Don Henley's The Boys of Summer sounded pretty great out of this phone, the PRaT that people prattle on about and all that.

 

[protoss]

For me the later 80s and 90s mostly nailed it in terms of dynamic transducer technology really catching up to electrostatic while aiming for diffuse field(ish) tunings which was the thing at the time.

Agree.
Sony mdr 10, cd3000, cd1700, cd2000, F1, Eggo, ma800, (almost all sony stuff)
Sennheiser hd540, hd580, hd600 and hd650
Akg1000, Akg 501 underrated gem
Most stax lambda
Some Byerdymanic
Yup, lots of planar of the 70s and 80s can match up to standard.

Also the STAX community is downright weird (I'm being nice here), I ask about something completely unrelated and get feverish pitches to go and buy the KGSSHV W X YNZ or BHSE F G H I J K LMNOP or whatever lol

Funnest and greatest comment ever
I literally went on a attack mode against stax thread a while back to question exactly what you mention.

 

[OneEyedHito]

I don't even listen to classical music and I like rap/rock/pop and I still hate the tonality that most of the top of the line stuff is shooting for now. V shaped and Harman and whatever.

For me the later 80s and 90s mostly nailed it in terms of dynamic transducer technology really catching up to electrostatic while aiming for diffuse field(ish) tunings which was the thing at the time.

For all the talk about "technical improvements" and what not, what is the actual result? How much did the ring radiator diaphragm on the HD 800 or the M dome on the Utopia (a phone I actually think was good sound quality wise) really bring us? Lower distortion on sub bass at real loud volumes I guess lol

What really is happening in the electrostatic world as well? MLER2 and MLER3 for STAX, for stuff that supposedly (full disclaimer - I haven't directly heard the X9000 yet, going off trusted impressions here) sounds pretty similar to the 009. I guess the mesh stators on the X9000 will theoretically be more reliable than on the Ω so I'll give STAX that, but they still running into channel imbalance problems to this day lol

I guess on planars there was quite a bit of technical improvement like 10-15 years ago because there was mostly a pause on that type of technology from the 70s. Planars in general don't do anything for my preferences as compared to dynamics and electrostats anyway, and plus I just am not with any of the brands pumping out expensive ass planars.

I'm going to be real shallow here now - these new planars are some of the most ugly phones I have ever seen (although some HiFiMan phones look good as an exception) and seem cheaply built. Even the names of the brands just sound wack: "Audeze" (clever), "HiFiMan" (see ya man), and worst of all, "Abyss" (the hell is this satanic thing even lol?). You asking me to drop thousands of bucks on this garbage? I'm a sucker and have the money to spend on this stuff and I would still never bother. I don't even want to listen to them. At least final has some good looking phones and a classier brand, but still, the D8000/Pro just wouldn't be my preference given it's tuning. I really hope that beautiful X8000 that is coming up brings us something diffuse field with a slight midrange emphasis, but I know that's a pipedream lol

At least there is some true interesting innovation with the ribbon phones, too bad the RAAL design language and color scheme looks like something only an angsty nerd who is about to shoot up his school would like lol

Still, all I hear is about these supposed vast technical improvements, and at least from what I've heard of modern stuff, all I really get in terms of actual audibility is sub bass (which I personally don't care about on headphones and prefer to be lower anyway but I'll give it that) as well as perceived "detail" because of treble spikes (nothing new here though).

Anyway, let me also throw some shade on the phones I really like(d):

SONY MDR CD3000: My favorite sound so far, but these are dorkiest ass headphones to ever wear. It's so freaking ugly on your head. The cheap pleather flaking just adds to it, who wants black dandruff? Also, it's sad what these cost now, I paid $1000 bucks for a basically new old stock one, and now even used ones are approaching that. Even some critiques sound wise, there's a bit of artificialness in the sound on some tracks when compared to some of the phones that just nail a natural tonality, the sub bass distorts at moderately high volumes, and there is a bit of harshness in the highs at times.

STAX SR 009S: The only high end phone that I have a bit of regret selling off, and I still mull over the idea of grabbing a new old stock 009 if I get a good enough deal on it. But it's just artificial sounding at times. Also the reliability concerns for such an expensive product is sad, I know why the channel imbalances tend to happen on electrostats, but why can't STAX sort that out first rather than make MLER8675309 or whatever? Also the STAX community is downright weird (I'm being nice here), I ask about something completely unrelated and get feverish pitches to go and buy the KGSSHV W X YNZ or BHSE F G H I J K LMNOP or whatever lol

SONY MDR R10: I don't get why people consider these beautiful phones. They are hideous when worn, basically as bad as the CD3000. Soundwise, yes on a select few tracks and genres they give this enchanting sound, but let's be real, the CD3000 comes pretty close to that midrange magic on those tracks as well. They also sound flat out boring on a lot of other tracks, and take a step behind in clarity to the CD3000. Also I find these uncomfortable when worn for a while, guess my ears are a little too big.

STAX SR Ω: STAX nailed their goal to get a diffuse field sound from just the headphone with these, and so they sound very natural, but then you listen to something like the SR 30 Professional electrets which gets you a very similar tonality, just missing the last bits of extension on both ends, and of course less of a sense of space. Worst of all, these are the jankiest ass phones ever, even the all plastic cheap SR 30 seems to have a better build than the Ω.

Also a harsher opinion on a so called "legend" - GRADO HP1000 HP1: I remember reading old topics here about how good these were and was smitten and even wanted to get a Melos SHA amp and all that garbage. These were my first kilobuck+ phones, I snagged a new old stock pair with perfect lettering and perfect original foams and all that. They also really got me in on the deep end of this "hobby" (spending money on products is apparently a hobby lol) because before that the most expensive headphone I had was the beyerdynamic T51i and I thought that was pretty crazy money to spend on a freaking headphone. They sound so freaking boring in general, I remember comparing with the T51i and thinking, the hell is this lol, it's not even better. To be fair to these, I did gain more of an appreciation for them as I listened to more stuff and developed my preferences, but I still cannot believe this was considered by some back in the early days of Head-Fi as the best phones ever. I guess Don Henley's The Boys of Summer sounded pretty great out of this phone, the PRaT that people prattle on about and all that.

Is this your YouTube channel?

 

[oneguy]

Funnest and greatest comment ever
I literally went on an attack mode against stax thread a while back to question exactly what you mention.

Trust me, no will forget your great repetitive trolling expedition of July 2023. Way more annoying than the POV you were trying to antagonize.

 

[tabness]

Is this your YouTube channel?

only made one headphone video



I'm sure I could rack up the subscriptions and free stuff and all that stuff by becoming an audio "reviewer" and saying how great $4000 headphones are from the wack brands but eh, I got another easy (though less sleazy I hope) ass job that pays better lol

Really though, Head-Fi, despite all the critiques, is still a better place to discuss headphones than the other places (am I even allowed to reference them here lol?). At least this place lacks the insufferable elitism and is more for a free for all rather than purely an echo chamber. Sometimes it's fun to poke fun at myself, the industry, and the "hobby" though.

@protoss your posts in the Stax thread were a breath of fresh air man, loved that you kept it real. I hope someone newly considering STAX got to see the other opinion and wasn't put off/intimidated as that topic can be sometimes.

There are tons of us (think about it, most STAX is sold in Japan and I bet most of those owners don't even know about the third party amp market) that enjoy listening to STAX on our modest little STAX amps, we just aren't as noisy as the small group of Sesame Street letter of the day amp fans, always much easier to start with a cheaper amp to begin with and you can audition and see if it's worth it later, but that's almost a taboo opinion for STAX lol

 

[protoss]

@protoss your posts in the Stax thread were a breath of fresh air man, loved that you kept it real. I hope someone newly considering STAX got to see the other opinion and wasn't put off/intimidated as that topic can be sometimes.

There are tons of us (think about it, most STAX is sold in Japan and I bet most of those owners don't even know about the third party amp market) that enjoy listening to STAX on our modest little STAX amps, we just aren't as noisy as the small group of Sesame Street letter of the day amp fans, always much easier to start with a cheaper amp to begin with and you can audition and see if it's worth it later, but that's almost a taboo opinion for STAX lol

Oh yeah, the stax thread is close to rubbish for direction and help. Deep pocket influence have hijacked that thread sadly.
You absolutely right that stax is pretty much japan regional and that 3rd party equipment should not be priority. Sadly my attacks will shadow all the gems of my posts

That's why I make stuff like this - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-lambdas-the-legendary-lambdas.970987/#post-17869969

 

[OnlySoMany]

Diana Phi TC were not for me. Very expensive and sounded artificial. Tried everything to fix them, fancy cables, different amps, etc.

TH900 was too bass heavy and slammy. Cheap thin leather on headband and cups. Started flaking early on.

HD700 treble was very sharp and piercing.

Hifiman Arya was too mid range to be worth keeping. Sounded just OK in my opinion. Decent for price.

Grado PS1000e. Very, very heavy, and could never get them to sit right in my head. Lots of plastic bits. Sounded good but fitment made me sell.

HD650. Sounded good but overhyped in my opinion. 660s2 is better.

 

[hakunamakaka]

HD800 - I really did not dig this headphone. A very niche use case and a no go for most of modern music.

 

[TheMiddleSky]

Diana Phi TC were not for me. Very expensive and sounded artificial. Tried everything to fix them, fancy cables, different amps, etc.

TH900 was too bass heavy and slammy. Cheap thin leather on headband and cups. Started flaking early on.

HD700 treble was very sharp and piercing.

Hifiman Arya was too mid range to be worth keeping. Sounded just OK in my opinion. Decent for price.

Grado PS1000e. Very, very heavy, and could never get them to sit right in my head. Lots of plastic bits. Sounded good but fitment made me sell.

HD650. Sounded good but overhyped in my opinion. 660s2 is better.

Personally bass ported earpad is a must fo Diana TC, better tonality, soundstage, and overall smoother presentation on top. Agree about 660S2. For me it is the most perfect incarnation of all HD6XX series so far.

TH900, HD700 and Arya, all of them are truly headphones that I always failed to enjoy lol.