[Rinaldi Moreira]

These last few days I heard the D70s with filter #6 and it's my current favorite, I get the impression of better dynamics and high frequencies just right. After a while I will rotate to other filters to see if these prints are correct.

After researching several options I chose to buy a Pi2AES to complement my RPi4, I like its sound and practicality, and to have an i2S (HDMI) connection to connect to the dac and try to extract the best performance from the D70s.

 

[Riccitone]

These last few days I heard the D70s with filter #6 and it's my current favorite, I get the impression of better dynamics and high frequencies just right. After a while I will rotate to other filters to see if these prints are correct.

After researching several options I chose to buy a Pi2AES to complement my RPi4, I like its sound and practicality, and to have an i2S (HDMI) connection to connect to the dac and try to extract the best performance from the D70s.

 

[Riccitone]

After all my deliberation, I went ahead and purchased the D70s, and am so glad I did! Even without substantial burn in, it's giving me some real goosebumps from the balance of tonality and increased stage, total lack of grain, exceptional resolution. Enough that I needed to change to toe-in and speaker placement in my listening room. Happy that you mentioned the Pi2AES, as I've been considering moving to one as an upgrade from my Allo Digione. Not to mention part of the reason for the DAC upgrade as well. Just so happy that the D70s seems to dispel that misconception of d/s being a "flatter" sound than r2r. I'll try the #6 filter based on what you're saying...I've been going between #4 and #5 quite a bit these past few days.

 

[Rinaldi Moreira]

What is your previous dac to understand the gains and differences between the 2 dacs.

 

[Riccitone]

Of course...

Mt previous dac was an Airist Audio r2r. It's a great dac, but was lacking in many ways. Feels a bit of a toy by comparison? But there are a few things I do still like about the Airist in terms of how it compares to tone, also drums and cymbals do present very well/ slightly more forward that with the D70s (not necessarily better). Part of this feels to be attributed to the larger stage depth and width brought on by the D70s.

 

[Riccitone]

What is your previous dac to understand the gains and differences between the 2 dacs.

Of course...

Mt previous dac was an Airist Audio r2r. It's a great dac, but was lacking in many ways. Feels a bit of a toy by comparison? But there are a few things I do still like about the Airist in terms of how it compares to tone, also drums and cymbals do present very well/ slightly more forward that with the D70s (not necessarily better). Part of this feels to be attributed to the larger stage depth and width brought on by the D70s.

 

[Rinaldi Moreira]

Enough that I needed to change to toe-in and speaker placement in my listening room.

I also had to change the placement of the boxes to correct the sound stage. Compared to my previous dac (calyx 24/192), the stage with the D70s was wider and less deep in my room, but after a few hours of testing I managed to leave the soundstage as before.

 

[sajunky]

But there are a few things I do still like about the Airist in terms of how it compares to tone, also drums and cymbals do present very well/ slightly more forward that with the D70s (not necessarily better)

I guess, you should stay with R2R. Airist is R2R with plenty opamps and these opamps are not good for R2R DAC. Other perform better.

 

[Riccitone]

I guess, you should stay with R2R. Airist is R2R with plenty opamps and these opamps are not good for R2R DAC. Other perform better.

I will eventually get myself something like Pontus II, Soekris, Holo Spring…I still would like to also mess around with a Phillips(ish) tda 1543 multi chip dac at some point, just don’t have the soldering skills/experience with mods to remove/change opamps etc.You guys are so ahead in all those cool projects! But I have to say that the D70 is simply astounding in every way. Didn’t expect it to have this much tonal richness, honestly. Super refined, especially for such a low price. I’m very happy with it so far and look forward to try it in many different implementations.

 

[sajunky]

I will eventually get myself something like Pontus II, Soekris, Holo Spring…I still would like to also mess around with a Phillips(ish) tda 1543 multi chip dac at some point,

Unfortunately none of these are NOS and my excellent Audio GD R2R-11 (at the same price as Airist) is not longer in production. In OS section there is more: Shiit has very good offering with Bifrost 2, but I would prefer Ares instead. The entry level NOS DAC is now R-1 with HDMI-I2S ($900) or R-28 with headphone amp, a biggest bucks for money. R-8 is at a price level of Pontus and Springs, but offer NOS.

If you are DIY friendly, there are interesting projects like this bypassing internal oversampling and filtering engine in some Delta-Sigma or ladder chips, it can sound similar to NOS ladder DAC.

 

[Contrails]

I will eventually get myself something like Pontus II, Soekris, Holo Spring…I still would like to also mess around with a Phillips(ish) tda 1543 multi chip dac at some point, just don’t have the soldering skills/experience with mods to remove/change opamps etc.You guys are so ahead in all those cool projects! But I have to say that the D70 is simply astounding in every way. Didn’t expect it to have this much tonal richness, honestly. Super refined, especially for such a low price. I’m very happy with it so far and look forward to try it in many different implementations.

I have had the Holo spring Lvl 3, Metrum Musette and Flint with DAC2 chips and M-DAC with 9018 chips in the past… With the D70S, you are not missing much. NOS vs D/S has it’s own pros n cons. NOS has this fluidity with smoothness that sounds very analogue but has HF roll off. Yes there are NOS DACs that are almost perfect but that’s 5 times the amount of a D70S. D70S actually has a bit of that fluidity/Flow to the music which you find in NOS but isn’t rolled off (filter 6 IMO). If you can borrow a NOS dac to compare, I would recommend that instead before spending $$. Because to get an upgrade in sound in comparison to the D70S, you would have to spend at least 3 times. Yes, it is that good IMO. And the way DACs are improving, in 2 or 3 years the D70S would be surpassed by some other DACs including a newer model from Topping.

 

[sajunky]

+1

I can only add that NOS HF roll-off is in my experience not noticeable. Those who complain look either on the FFT plot or use high order analogue filters not compensating drop-off issue. My private theory is that unfiltered images increase HF sensitivity of our sensors (which are digital). Untested theory as my hearing is not extending 12kHz, in my age it is normal.

A Schiit is a good option in US, as it offers money back (if remember correctly). 2-3 weeks is a minimum time to get our ears trained to a natural sound, also burning period for ladder DACs is longer. Just visiting a show room for demonstration is not enough.

And finally, the most important with DACs is a fatigue factor. Not a minimal sound differences, but how long we can listen music before the initial Whoow details effect disappears. My Topping D30 didn't pass this test...

 

[mBenPhoto]

My 2 cents…

I do not have NOS experience outside the Musician Pegasus, which in NOS mode sunded “dull” compared to OS. But, if Musician adopt the same Denafrips approach, its NOS is not really NOS but OS with all parameters set to 1.

The Pegasus was very easy to listen for prolonged time, probably due to the “sweetened “ upper midrange and treble (i.e. rolled off).

I listen to the D70S for most of my available time with zero listening fatigue, aside badly mixed recordings which I cannot listen for more than few minutes - but it’s a recording fault, not dac’s.

When comparing some selected tracks between the Pegasus and the D70S, I was able to detect some more peaky treble passages with the D70S compared to the Pegasus. But, first, outside that peaky 1% the D70S was vastly more engaging than the Pegasus. And, second, as I stopped A-B-ing between the two dacs (I sold the Pegasus as I could not justify it), those “peaky”, few seconds, passages now sound perfectly fine in the context of the presentation.

With another Topping, namely the D90, there was a midrange harshness which I (and the other people attending the test sessions) found difficult to digest. Same with the Yggdrasil Unison A1, which emphasized the upper midrange and treble with too much enthusiasm (I understand the A2, now OG, is less V shaped than the A1, but V shaped nonetheless).

Still waiting to source a Pontus II or a Spring 3 to check if they are the step ups people are (more or less spontaneously …) raving about.

 

[Riccitone]

I have had the Holo spring Lvl 3, Metrum Musette and Flint with DAC2 chips and M-DAC with 9018 chips in the past… With the D70S, you are not missing much. NOS vs D/S has it’s own pros n cons. NOS has this fluidity with smoothness that sounds very analogue but has HF roll off. Yes there are NOS DACs that are almost perfect but that’s 5 times the amount of a D70S. D70S actually has a bit of that fluidity/Flow to the music which you find in NOS but isn’t rolled off (filter 6 IMO). If you can borrow a NOS dac to compare, I would recommend that instead before spending $$. Because to get an upgrade in sound in comparison to the D70S, you would have to spend at least 3 times. Yes, it is that good IMO. And the way DACs are improving, in 2 or 3 years the D70S would be surpassed by some other DACs including a newer model from Topping.

I would most definitely borrow one first, as you’re suggesting. Definitely more curious about NOS now, based on posts here. Maybe even a diy if I can afford the time and equipment to practice (thank you for those cool suggestions @sajunky!). It would be nice (eventually) to have a different dac as a flavor compliment - not a replacement - for this really excellent dac. Startling to really get that the output stage and supported circuit design is as (if not more) important than the chip/processor design choice. What I do know is that the D70s sounds even better every time I sit in front of my system…and with everything I listen to. It even provides such good listening via usb/streaming that the differences between that and stored tracks are minute enough for me to almost forget which source I’m running. And yes, it shares qualities with r2r ("flows" much better than my Airist r2r), very natural and non-fatiguing. Add to this the updated flexibility of connections? For such a comparatively low price? A wonderful choice through and through.

 

[mBenPhoto]

What I do know is that the D70s sound even better every time I sit in front of my system…and with everything I listen to. It even provides such good listening via usb/streaming that the differences between that and stored tracks are minute enough for me to almost forget which source I’m running.

My D70S stabilized in a couple months of normal usage.

With the Pegasus, as to speed up burn in, I kept it always on playing music for 12 days non-stop (300 hours).