[SilverEars]

You are lucky to be able to go to meet, but many people are like me here and need the maximum information from others.... Best regards to you....

I think for the unfortunate folks that has complications with attending meets, headphone setup rotations would be very nice. On the portable headphones thread, there are various iems being rotated so that many can audition them, and being able to do this for low to high end, gives us a very good ideas of values and possibilities in performance(either meets, went below, or over expectations).

I think this is a step this forum should take given there are so many sponsors here. They should provided oppportunities for us to listen and decide.

 

[richard51]

There only a positive side to this impossibility to go to meet and listen, i have read a lot, try some amps , some headphones, but without total love and many frustrations, buying without listening is sometimes and often deceiving, particularly if like me you know nothing like 7 years ago....But the positive side has been that i was in the obligation to inform myself much, and at the end after this search, i stumble on products of great audiophile potential that i never know of before...... Now i am totally happy and this thread is for all people like me 7 years ago who want to know what are the possibilities to constitute a HI-FI system at low cost... They are also methods, very simple to upgrade your actual gear... It is interesting to discuss about that for the benefit of all...

By the way SilverEars you seems to have very interesting gear, what is your experience with the Mojo ? I read a great deal of the thread " watts up ", it is the designer of the Mojo who speak about dac technology, a bit way over my head, but very interesting guy, he know what he speaks about....My own solution for a dac satisfy me totally, and the price i had pay on Ebay is to low to reveal, but at the normal lucky normal bidding around 100 bucks this battery Nos dac is a pure marvel ... I cannot upgrade it , it will be too costly, and i cannot detect a fault with the sound....I am also curious how you will describe the sound of the Ak240 it is akg ?

 

[George Taylor]

I'll start by saying I haven't had the chance to try the Mojo. That said, I'd go with a iFi Black Label Micro, and Beyerdynamic 1990 Pros. I was able to get my Black Label on sale for around $380, and the 1990's for around $500. I have other cans I like slightly better, but the price goes up quite a bit if I go with them. SQ wise I like everything the 1990's have to offer. And I love my Black Label. While I may still dabble in headphone buying, mainly out of curiosity, I have no interest in getting a different dac/amp setup at all.

 

[richard51]

I'll start by saying I haven't had the chance to try the Mojo. That said, I'd go with a iFi Black Label Micro, and Beyerdynamic 1990 Pros. I was able to get my Black Label on sale for around $380, and the 1990's for around $500. I have other cans I like slightly better, but the price goes up quite a bit if I go with them. SQ wise I like everything the 1990's have to offer. And I love my Black Label. While I may still dabble in headphone buying, mainly out of curiosity, I have no interest in getting a different dac/amp setup at all.

I am very curious about beyer 1990, the reason is that my first headphone were the beyerdynamic 990 pro, i purchase them 35 years ago, and loved them, my wife decided 7 years ago to clean them (destruct) and by accident they break (indifference) LOL ...
That Start my voyage in audio to replace them, but in truth before the mighty AKG K 340 i bought a month ago there is no veritable convincing replacement, only many different headphones with different qualities....I am curious of the difference between these 2, the 1990 and the 990....Please give me some description of your experience with this 1990 if you can....

 

[George Taylor]

I am very curious about beyer 1990, the reason is that my first headphone were the beyerdynamic 990 pro, i purchase them 35 years ago, and loved them, my wife decided 7 years ago to clean them (destruct) and by accident they break (indifference) LOL ...
That Start my voyage in audio to replace them, but in truth before the mighty AKG K 340 i bought a month ago there is no veritable convincing replacement, only many different headphones with different qualities....I am curious of the difference between these 2 the 1990 and the 990....Please give me some description of your experience with this 1990 if you can....

I'd say the 1990 is as close to neutral as I like to go. The first real set of cans I bought that I'd consider to be high end were the 650s. When I bought them I thought they were great. But after a few months, of trying and buying other cans I came to the realization that truly neutral = boring to me. So, move on a few moths. Saw the 1990s on sale on Amazon in a bundle deal, read a lot about them, and pulled the trigger. After all that, I feel they may offer the best bang for the buck going. To me, they are very open sounding and close to neutral. But just fun enough to not be truly neutral. A little bit extra bass & highs, without being out of control on either. Add two sets of pads that really do change to sound, two cords for personal taste, and it just doesn't get much better. Like I said in the last post, I have a couple sets that I like more, but they both go for almost twice the cost of the 1990s. And blow through the $1000 line in the sand. I can also say I think the 1990s handle different genres of music better than those other cans over all, once again in my ears opinion. Hope this is what you're looking for description-wise.

 

[richard51]

Very interesting details thanks ....Can you name this 2 cans that you prefer to the 1990 and say why? Sometimes that help to shape an image of the headphone when we constrast it with another we prefer....

 

[richard51]

I'd say the 1990 is as close to neutral as I like to go. The first real set of cans I bought that I'd consider to be high end were the 650s. When I bought them I thought they were great. But after a few months, of trying and buying other cans I came to the realization that truly neutral = boring to me. So, move on a few moths. Saw the 1990s on sale on Amazon in a bundle deal, read a lot about them, and pulled the trigger. After all that, I feel they may offer the best bang for the buck going. To me, they are very open sounding and close to neutral. But just fun enough to not be truly neutral. A little bit extra bass & highs, without being out of control on either. Add two sets of pads that really do change to sound, two cords for personal taste, and it just doesn't get much better. Like I said in the last post, I have a couple sets that I like more, but they both go for almost twice the cost of the 1990s. And blow through the $1000 line in the sand. I can also say I think the 1990s handle different genres of music better than those other cans over all, once again in my ears opinion. Hope this is what you're looking for description-wise.

What is the first moment that you know you have reach the first high end peak of audio experience, not in the absolute sense, but the point of no return, the point after you truly know for the first time, and can say to yourself: this is my first audiophile true experience....After this point there is generally the law of diminushing return that make upgrade costly and without the excitation linked to this no return point.... For me this is,one year ago, my Sansui AU 7700 amplifier, and Mission cyrus 781 speakers that almost in the same time makes me say: Wow this is it....After that my first audiophile headphone the AKG K 340 one month ago... For sure there is better but if you have finally some real audiophile experience of music already, the next expanse will probably be more a little satisfaction than something akin to this first awe after the point of no return was reached...i hope that i make myself clear.... All this thread must be a reflexion about this point of no return, and the means to reach it , different for each one of us for sure....

I guess the beyer 1990 is this experience point ?

 

[George Taylor]

Very interesting details thanks ....Can you name this 2 cans that you prefer to the 1990 and say why? Sometimes that help to shape an image of the headphone when we constrast it with another we prefer....

What is the first moment that you know you have reach the first high end peak of audio experience, not in the absolute sense, but the point of no return, the point after you truly know for the first time, and can say to yourself: this is my first audiophile true experience....After this point there is generally the law of diminushing return that make upgrade costly and without the excitation linked to this no return point.... For me this is,one year ago, my Sansui AU 7700 amplifier, and Mission cyrus 781 speakers that almost in the same time makes me say: Wow this is it....After that my first audiophile headphone the AKG K 340 one month ago... For sure there is better but if you have finally some real audiophile experience of music already, the next expanse will probably be more a little satisfaction than something akin to this first awe after the point of no return was reached...i hope that i make myself clear.... All this thread must be a reflexion about this point of no return, and the means to reach it , different for each one of us for sure....

I've learned the same way most of us here have, it's very hard to say you're done. The two I hold above the 1990s (again to my ears) are the LCD2s and the TH900s. I think they both sound better to my ears, but they also sound better depending on what I'm listening to. Like I said, I feel the 1990s do a better all around job of handling all genres of music. And they're cheaper. I had the T90s briefly and the treble was just too much for me. Still own the 770s (80 ohms) and still get a kick out of them from time to time. As far as the two I mentioned earlier, I feel the LCD2s are smoother then the 1990s in their delivery of music, if that makes any sense. And I think the TH900s are the most fun set of cans I have. The sub bass is crazy and really hits the spot when I'm in the mood for it. But I'm not always in that mood. or always in the mood for the mellowness that the LCD2s offer. Hope this helped.

 

[richard51]

This very much help indeed.... And that says a lot in favor of the 1990 ....The price/ quality ratio seems beside it.... thanks

I've learned the same way most of us here have, it's very hard to say you're done. The two I hold above the 1990s (again to my ears) are the LCD2s and the TH900s. I think they both sound better to my ears, but they also sound better depending on what I'm listening to. Like I said, I feel the 1990s do a better all around job of handling all genres of music. And they're cheaper. I had the T90s briefly and the treble was just too much for me. Still own the 770s (80 ohms) and still get a kick out of them from time to time. As far as the two I mentioned earlier, I feel the LCD2s are smoother then the 1990s in their delivery of music, if that makes any sense. And I think the TH900s are the most fun set of cans I have. The sub bass is crazy and really hits the spot when I'm in the mood for it. But I'm not always in that mood. or always in the mood for the mellowness that the LCD2s offer. Hope this helped.

 

[richard51]

I've learned the same way most of us here have, it's very hard to say you're done.

I like your comment here... You are very right, we all learned progressively, this is our own personal audio history, and you are very right, it is very hard to say we're done...

I can say that myself with you ,but it is one of the reason i want this discussion with you and all others here, the point of no return is reached by ordinary folk like us with generally not too much pricely pieces of gear, and it is very interesting to know HOW and with WHAT this point, this AWE moment, is reach... My cut-off of 1000 bucks is also there in the title of the thread because the most interesting moment to analyse in our audio history is this one awe moment when we reach some peak with not so costly system...

At the end,with the law of diminushing return, after this first AWE moment, it will be very costly to live a second time this experience, if possible at all...Sometimes because of money it will be out of reach.... Then my other reason to make this thread is there : how to improve our gear without investing big money...

 

[Deftone]

To be honest Richard after reading your posts it seems you may be a little too obsessed with reaching the “summit” for as less money as possible and I don’t really blame you for it as most people on headfi become like that (whether it’s about limited cost or cost no object) some people spend thousands and still not happy.

It is easy to get lost in the mass amounts of headphones being manufactured today and hype around certain products that doesn’t live up.

It’s not the end of the world if you can’t buy a focal uptopia and chord Dave, as long as your still enjoying the music the best equipment available doesn’t really matter does it.

I have another suggestion, if it is possible to try them. Chord mojo & Akg k612 / k712. They are a really nice sounding pair that proves you don’t have to live on instant noodles for a year to enhance your enjoyment of music.

 

[richard51]

I think it is not too much pricey(Chord mojo & Akg k612 / k712) and indeed a probably potential point of no return in an audiophile personal history....It is rewarding to investigate i think....Thanks for that interesting suggestion...

To answer your more personal remark i must say that i am way less "obsess" like you said now ( but my wife would say that you are right for sure ),the reason is i reach this point of no-return this year,which point is also the point of diminushing returns, then i listen music this year for the first time truly satisfied after my 7 years search and experiments with simple mods., it is no more for me frustrating to read about gear i will never afford to buy because it is inaccessible for me... I enjoy too much what i have now... I start this thread not only for me, but for the newcomers also,and the experimented one, for discussing and sharing our own history, gear, methods of improvement...

You are right that joy is not related to money, personally my joy was to search all these years and make the different experiments myself...The 1000 bucks in the title of the thread only reflect the convergence of these 2 most important points of our audio history : the point of no return after the first awe , and the point of diminushing returns....My thanks and best regards to you for your kind and interesting participation...

To be honest Richard after reading your posts it seems you may be a little too obsessed with reaching the “summit” for as less money as possible and I don’t really blame you for it as most people on headfi become like that (whether it’s about limited cost or cost no object) some people spend thousands and still not happy.

It is easy to get lost in the mass amounts of headphones being manufactured today and hype around certain products that doesn’t live up.

It’s not the end of the world if you can’t buy a focal uptopia and chord Dave, as long as your still enjoying the music the best equipment available doesn’t really matter does it.

I have another suggestion, if it is possible to try them. Chord mojo & Akg k612 / k712. They are a really nice sounding pair that proves you don’t have to live on instant noodles for a year to enhance your enjoyment of music.

 

[SilverEars]

By the way SilverEars you seems to have very interesting gear, what is your experience with the Mojo ? I read a great deal of the thread " watts up ", it is the designer of the Mojo who speak about dac technology, a bit way over my head, but very interesting guy, he know what he speaks about....My own solution for a dac satisfy me totally, and the price i had pay on Ebay is to low to reveal, but at the normal lucky normal bidding around 100 bucks this battery Nos dac is a pure marvel ... I cannot upgrade it , it will be too costly, and i cannot detect a fault with the sound....I am also curious how you will describe the sound of the Ak240 it is akg ?

I have an inkling that Mojo reacts differently to different types of drivers. For iems of BA drivers, the high mids to low treble transition is uneven, and creates a bit of hallow mid sound. For dynamic and planars I think it's a different story. I describe the signature as coming off as bit bold than refined. Like I've mentioned, there can be an uneven transition from upper mids to the low treble, and I think this is a general characteristic, and similarly the mid bass, which creates a bit of punchyness vs evenly extending to the sub-bass. I have heard what I describe as more refined sounding sources than the Mojo, but I'm being nit picky. I have heard much worse source with sharper lower treble to upper mids transition to come off a bit shrill in comparison. I also believe the Mojo is not track dependant in the way it outputs sense of space of the sound environment. I have heard other sources that the sound stage size depending on the track, but Mojo seems to widen it in general. One of my headphone sounded punchy and bold with the Mojo, and with a better source, would sound more refined. That's not to say Mojo is not a good performing source. People recommend it because it is one of the better valued source for performance per pricing out there.

It is my understanding that sources react differently to different driver types. Fortunately, if you are mainly looking to drive dynamic and planars, Mojo is a good value due to being a DAC/Amp combo, and being a top performer at the price point. But, there are so many DACs and amps out there that can be combined that can react better to specific type of headphone. Like for example, I mentioned Massdrop X Cavalli tube hybrid with modi multibit, with the HD6XX. It sounded good to me, and the HD6XX or 650's strength is in genre that sounds good in a warm tone like jazz. Some headphones do well in certain genre of music over others. There are many headphones, amps, and DACs out there, and people try various combinations to realize what sounds best for them. I thought I had Mojo figured out, but then I try a new planar that contradicts what I've experienced with BA driver iems, so I feel that I'm limited to what I've tried with the Mojo, and there hasn't been a general pattern in how it sounds.

AK240 is a portable audio player I like to use for iems.

 

[richard51]

Very nuanced impressions and experiences that relativized this celebrated product, at the same times amp and dac,very small hence portable...Not to pricey,but not a solution for all taste or headphones, though a great solution for some for sure...I think somebody will learn something from your impressions ....I thank you very much for your time and very clear impressions...

On a personal note, i have discovered this year a dac that makes my journey reach an end, because of his low price, and because of his nature, this is a non oversampling dac,NOS, and i must admit that for the price the sound is amazing in my speakers and headphones by a great margin better than my last oversampling dac which was already a good one....The name is in my signature...The principal characteristic of this nos dac is his holographic imaging, and natural, organic rendering of all musical timbre.... I bought it on ebay (a bid of 24 dollars, i know i was very lucky ) normally with luck someone can bid it at around 100 or perhaps 200 dollars with patience, or bought one used around 150 ...Because of his amazing sound and price, it will not be possible neither desirable for me to upgrade it really.... I discover this relatively under the radar piece of dac in my search for the maximum quality for the least price...If you are curious read about it...The designer is very serious and his service are impeccable... All people interested in audio must hear for themselves the big difference in sound between mid-fi OS dac and mid-fi Nos dac... After this extraordinary cheap product i must admit that i am not really interested myself to buy any other one (diminushing return point reached)...For the newcomers that does not have any serious dac product already i think that is a MUST soundwise and pricewise,impossible to beat on all these count...There is always better, but it will be costly to upgrade and beat....

 

[SilverEars]

A more comprehensive way to figure out source's performance is try out various headphones, and driver types. If you have various levels of drivability(easy to difficult to drive headphones), and driver types(dynamic, BA, planar).

Also, you'd have to be familiar with each headphone's general characteristic as well. From all this, if you find any consistancies, you make a generalization of it's performace/characteristics.

You'd have to go back to other sources for comparison as well. Many combinations to reach a conclusion of anything consistant. This means you'd have to have good candidates of headphones, DACs, and amps of variety in characteriatics and types. Does anybody have such a variety to give a comprehensive review?

It's not easy to make a more objective, accurate impressions.