[richard51]

1000 dollars is a symbolic cut-off, an indication, and by the way it is my system cost, vintage or used gear, and low cost contemporary dac, then it is possible....I will not throw stones to someone that would say, i have pay 2000 and now i live a T.A.E...Merry Christmas to you...

In truth the most important thing at last is not the pieces of gear you buy, anyone that takes his time and inform himself can buy a good system...The most important thing is what do you do to maximize your good audio system ...It is my experience and experiment that nothing can replace, room treatment,controls of vibrations,cleaning of the electrical grid etc...Merry Christmas Audioholic

 

[richard51]

I think that the most easy pieces to pick, after informing yourself cautiously is the speakers and the amplifier... It is way more difficult to choose totl at low cost for an headphone or a dac...I was very lucky with mine tough...I dont want to impose my choices...Only to give the info...Others will have other suggestion, but i doubt that anything can beat my AKG at his used price under 1000 bucks, and the french nos dac starting point system is for me at his price absolutely without rival of any kind...

 

[336881]

At first sight your suggestion seems promising....But i am very partial and favorable to the Sansui Au-222.... Merry Christmas Antimatter...

Lots of room to grow with the au-222 as well. Throw another grand on a mimby, cdp-x333es and bl-51 with cart and you have something really well rounded. Two analog, belt and DD, as well as two digital cd and dac. Interconnect cables at that point but mogami will help keep the cost down.

Bass and Treble control, L/R balance control, headphone and power amp built in, drop dead sexy looks, daisy chain any other 100v components out the back. Yeah you will get your $300 worth out of the au-222.

Merry Xmas as well and Happy New Year.

 

[TWerk]

Speakers vs. headphones can be tricky.

I bought 2 pairs of highly regarded speakers (JBL 305 and Vanatoo T1) and was highly disappointed by both. It could be my room, I'm not sure because neither pair of speakers sounded nearly as good as the speakers in my car. The JBL's were not at all enjoyable to me, quite fatiguing up top and didn't have the bass impact I like. For home use, my experience has been headphones sound better and are much easier to use as well as not disturbing others while getting a volume that sounds good.

Listening to some $5 VE monks RN, and they sound pretty good. 5 dollars.... it's scary...

 

[richard51]

Speakers vs. headphones can be tricky.

I bought 2 pairs of highly regarded speakers (JBL 305 and Vanatoo T1) and was highly disappointed by both. It could be my room, I'm not sure because neither pair of speakers sounded nearly as good as the speakers in my car. The JBL's were not at all enjoyable to me, quite fatiguing up top and didn't have the bass impact I like. For home use, my experience has been headphones sound better and are much easier to use as well as not disturbing others while getting a volume that sounds good.

Listening to some $5 VE monks RN, and they sound pretty good. 5 dollars.... it's scary...

I think you are right for the tricky part and the scary part...

However for example my Mission are good out of the box,but not nearly good like after room treatment, and damping them with sorbothane and isolating them, and also using heavy load to damp them...Even after that it takes a very good dac and all the method i use for cleaning the electrical grid to have TOP audio experience with them...They are on par with my headphone now on all count...I had been lucky with my choice i think...Merry Christmas to you and thanks for sharing your interesting experience...

 

[Music Alchemist]

I bought 2 pairs of highly regarded speakers (JBL 305 and Vanatoo T1) and was highly disappointed by both. It could be my room, I'm not sure because neither pair of speakers sounded nearly as good as the speakers in my car. The JBL's were not at all enjoyable to me, quite fatiguing up top and didn't have the bass impact I like. For home use, my experience has been headphones sound better and are much easier to use as well as not disturbing others while getting a volume that sounds good.

Based on our previous conversations, I'm almost certain it was the setup of the speakers that resulted in a sub-par experience for you. As you know, I liked the LSR305 more than any headphone. (Even more so with my Klipsch RP-250F floorstanders.) But I had them on full-size stands and experimented with many positions in my listening room. The best sound was when they were spread out like a conventional two-channel setup would be. They're very neutral speakers, and I know you tend to prefer a more bassy/dark sound, so there ya go. But they're capable of crazy bass impact given the right recording and setup. I could make the room shake sometimes.

 

[SilverEars]

It's really not absolute that speakers are better.

For my personal taste I like how headphones output sound. Headphones are close to your ear(or even inside the ear), and helps with greater sense of detail, articulation, clarity. Which are all aspects important to me. If we're speaking imaging, speakers have the strong suit.

I see headphones being served for monitoring details in the recordings.

What's also unique to headphones are depending on recordings, and headphone, there is hovering sound effect you get like a pluck of a guitar right near the ear sounding more detailed and dimentional as result. And depending on headphone, there is the degree of depth to sound, a distance some sound is perceived which depends on recording. Due to the headspeakers being near the ear and recording providing the effect(the degree is really combination of headphones and recording), you hear it better and there is that depth of sound that people refer to as soundstage.

As for LSR305, people overstate how great they are. Maybe for nearfield at the pricepoint, but no denying it's hyped. For a guy that has used floor standing loudspeakers, LSR305 didn't particularly meet expectations.

Audition folks, don't buy into the hype. The scale of popularity isn't proportional to performance.

 

[Music Alchemist]

As a lifelong musician who wants to replicate the experience of live sound, the artificially emphasized (or de-emphasized in some cases, such as the fact that the drivers are right next to your ears and can't produce any real depth and lack severely in imaging) aspects of headphones don't appeal to me so much anymore. I want it to seem like the instruments are in the room with me. I don't believe that headphones are actually producing more detail; they just make certain details louder. I actually hear far more details from my speakers than I ever did with headphones, and they're reproduced much more accurately, like they're on a stage.

 

[SilverEars]

I will say though, the imaging can't be correct on headphones, and the depth in sound you get is due to the way headphones are directed at your ears compared to speakers, perpendicularly. The way it's directed, it creates a perception of being at the center of the sounds(or inside the head) and certain sounds being distanced, or depth sensed to the left or right direction if comparing to location of speakers, which sounds come from infront of you.

For music, I'm ok with that. For movies, the way headphones are placed, you notice the change in tonality of dialog.

 

[SilverEars]

Going from iems to GOOD headphones, I notice the differences in depth and how much articulation can be heard, the articulation drops with speakers.

 

[Music Alchemist]

the articulation drops with speakers.

My speakers are far more articulate than any headphone I've heard, and I've heard a good number of the best ones.

 

[336881]

I really think you need both headphones and speakers. Why my $2k setup included both. The reason I put twice the money on the speakers is because they are just so much grander I think it costs twice as much to build something that will keep up with the headphones. Bigger magnets, bigger enclosure, bigger driver, I think going twice as expensive is honestly very conservative.

You can find the Onkyo speakers I mentioned for $250 without stands. The pair I saw had the stands included for $400 and well I think the stands are worth the extra $150.

 

[richard51]

I read the last posts and conclude that i am very lucky indeed,my speakers are almost detailed like my headphone, and my headphone give me a depth imaging that none of my other headphones can give, different but almost on par with my speakers... I am happy with headphone and speakers, i cannot live without one or the other...I can assure you that,yes, there exist headphone that are like speakers taped on your ears, and speakers that give you details in spade...But like i had already explained nothing is possible without isolating,damping,cleaning, not only each piece of gear, but the electrical grid of the room and the house...

But for sure like said Music Alchemist,(and i does not have his experience with high-end speakers but i think he was right),TOTL speakers will always deliver more imaging and depth imaging than average headphone, and even most of very costly headphone...And very good headphones will always deliver more details than average speakers, even some costly one... It is a general rule which are probably true...

 

[richard51]

By the way i would like that the 2 of you (Silverears and Musical Alchemist) define what is "articulation" ? i am not sure that i understand that...

 

[SilverEars]

By the way i would like that the 2 of you (Silverears and Musical Alchemist) define what is "articulation" ? i am not sure that i understand that...

It's how well I can make-out the sounds of the tracks in terms of details, etc.. Not only details, but how the sounds are presented, and definition is really important as well, how the sounds are defined. Also, clarity is involved in this. Are the sounds clear and distinct to easily make it out. Are the mids well defined and clear, or congested and muffled, and bass overwhelms or bloated kind bleeds to the mids?