[kool bubba ice]

Portability is the main Culprit.. Everyone wants to listen on the go & think a portable amp is just as good being coupled with a non portable headphone that is hard to drive. & people commonly mistaken volume with being driven well.. I could get the 340/Sextett very loud using my receiver, but it couldn't drive them well.. While the HR2 did wonders for them.. To me, buying the HD800 will the sole intent on using it with a sound card is silly. If you spend 1,400 for a headphone you can at least spend 400 to drive it adequately.

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prog Rock Man /img/forum/go_quote.gif Fine. I am sure any newcomer is now well aware of the repeated sage adivice of the Head-Fi Old-timers. So how about some examples, especially if you are on a budget.

Looking at the rigs in your signature, it looks like you're already building really nice rigs on a budget.

Let's not let this thread turn into a specific-recommendation thread as that's not the topic, but if this thread launches a couple good threads about that, then it's already served a purpose.

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shahrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree wholly with the OP. This is why I don't give every post an equal weighting. When researching any equipment, I pay more attention to the experienced members. I suggest people not to base this ranking upon post count, but by their background and ownership of different gear and the duration of their membership at Head-Fi (which I feel is a better predictor of experience than post count, though not an infallible one). Following this little practice has helped me a great deal. Some interesting tidbits from this thread alone: notice how most of the people who disagree with the OP's sensible advice are members who've recently joined (2009). The more knowledgeable members have some time under their belt. I also don't want newcomers to take my post as a whiff of arrogance or superiority. I used to be just like the newbies that are being described in this thread. I learned over time as well through experience and the sage advice of the Head-fi old-timers.

Om!!

 

[K_19]

I just wanted to mention again what one of the posters said earlier in this thread... if the headphone in question has a 1/4 jack instead of an 1/8, it's 9 out of 10 times safe to assume that it was meant to be used AND that the sound improvement will be significant with a dedicated full size amplifier. It clearly shows what the designers of these headphones had in mind on what they were meant to be used with. Conversely, it's pretty safe to assume anything 1/8 plug will do well enough unamped, though they will of course benefit from any amping (more of a bonus usually).

 

[midoo1990]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shahrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif Some interesting tidbits from this thread alone: notice how most of the people who disagree with the OP's sensible advice are members who've recently joined (2009). The more knowledgeable members have some time under their belt. I also don't want newcomers to take my post as a whiff of arrogance or superiority. I used to be just like the newbies that are being described in this thread. I learned over time as well through experience and the sage advice of the Head-fi old-timers.

really?so how should i take your post?this post is very evocative and you clearly didnt read the whole thread or know what is the debat about.this has nothing to do with newbies or senior member here or the experiance you learn here through years as you say,you completely swayed on the purpose of this thread.i dont deny that an amp can make a difference i just said that a k701 or a CAN that needs amplification sound good from an ipod although you sacrifice getting their full potentials by not using an amp,i stated all my ideas in my posts in this thread and i am backing them up.

 

[oqvist]

The original poster asked about using the HD 800 on an Essence ST. It has one of the top three DAC chips out there so that is exactly how horrible and unserious it´s as a source. I have no idea what experience level he is on of course but that is not the point is it?. I sold it but mainly because I liked the synergy with my Elite Pro and Keces Dac better rather then it being inferior by any way. I am sure you can get better if you are ready to pay for it. But they are at the level it´s mostly about synergy with your headphone and amp.

As for amp output certainly impressed with an K701. Known to be quite inefficient and demanding on amplification. A lot of the complaints here seems to be from an elitistic approach. Or from old audiophiles not keeping up on soundcard technology? Soundcards is soundcards whereas DACs is labelled as DAC1, Lavry DA11, Keces, Valab etc etc. Soundcards are so inferior they can just be soundcards or???

Many would probably get blisters on their fingers just touching a soundcard compared to their fancy standalone DACs. I agree it´s nice to have that box but I have zero background noise from my soundcards as well and yes they are very detailed. Elite Pro and Essence ST both have very short signal paths in high fidelity mode but you have the option for extra functionality that may seem unserious for some.

I have a question. Take the HD 650 balanced. What is that 500$ for some nice expensive balanced cables with 1000$ tube amp and source with balanced outputs. Idea the total price should be identical. does it outperform an Hd 800 on a say 350$ DAC (external DACs are immensely overpriced so it´s a fair comparison with my experiences with DACs at that price level) and say a 250$ dedicated headphone amplifier on top of that?

Or will they still be different headphones. HD 800 still having superior soundstaging etc even on lesser sources. I mean HD 650/K701/Pro 900 all scale really well too. Get one of those you have more money to burn on the rest of the chain. Though I doubt by perfect matching I can make either of these to sound exactly like a Hd 800 and vice versa.

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by midoo1990 /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...i dont deny that an amp can make a difference i just said that a k701 or a CAN that needs amplification sound good from an ipod although you sacrifice getting their full potentials by not using an amp,i stated all my ideas in my posts in this thread and i am backing them up.

Well then we're in agreement.

 

[midoo1990]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shahrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well then we're in agreement.

ok we agree then

but i still find your post evocative and not related to this thread

 

[Prog Rock Man]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvrboy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Somebody just posted a thread asking can I power the HD-800 with a soundcard......

Quote:

Originally Posted by oqvist /img/forum/go_quote.gif The original poster asked about using the HD 800 on an Essence ST. It has one of the top three DAC chips out there so that is exactly how horrible and unserious it´s as a source......

I think that you have made a very valid point oqvist. The original poster (not tvrboy, the poster who asked about the HD800s) actually asked a very reasonable question and from your post you have pointed out that soundcards are maybe under-rated. There have been a lot of posts on thread critical of those who do not use a 'decent' amp. But have any of the critics heard the Essence ST into the HD 800s, or are they just making an assumption?

 

[pyramid6]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oqvist /img/forum/go_quote.gif ... I have a question. Take the HD 650 balanced. What is that 500$ for some nice expensive balanced cables with 1000$ tube amp and source with balanced outputs. Idea the total price should be identical. does it outperform an Hd 800 on a say 350$ DAC (external DACs are immensely overpriced so it´s a fair comparison with my experiences with DACs at that price level) and say a 250$ dedicated headphone amplifier on top of that? Or will they still be different headphones. HD 800 still having superior soundstaging etc even on lesser sources. I mean HD 650/K701/Pro 900 all scale really well too. Get one of those you have more money to burn on the rest of the chain. Though I doubt by perfect matching I can make either of these to sound exactly like a Hd 800 and vice versa.

I think this is were experience (read as what you've experienced, not as more knowledgeable), hubris, and sun spots come into play. If I read you right, you're asking which sounds better, not sounding exactly the same?

I would take it a step further, because this is what the OP is arguing.

Would HD800 to a headphone out, sound better than a HD650 and a Woo Audio WA6 and a CI Audio DAC 2? Mostly the same price.

I don't think there is a clear answer, and the only reliable way I can tell you that one is better than the other is if I heard them both. And that wouldn't do anyone but me any good.

 

[Emokid]

Quote:

Originally Posted by K_19 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just wanted to mention again what one of the posters said earlier in this thread... if the headphone in question has a 1/4 jack instead of an 1/8, it's 9 out of 10 times safe to assume that it was meant to be used AND that the sound improvement will be significant with a dedicated full size amplifier. It clearly shows what the designers of these headphones had in mind on what they were meant to be used with. Conversely, it's pretty safe to assume anything 1/8 plug will do well enough unamped, though they will of course benefit from any amping (more of a bonus usually).

That is really good point. Reminds me of these two photos.

Thx, Bina & bubaak

Of course they did it just for the lulz and both own some serious desktop amplifiers to properly drive HD800. ;]

 

[MomijiTMO]

I'm tired of people finding the $100 or $200 GIANT KILLA to power their k701/dt880/hd650 to near maximum sound. Woohoo. I'm also tired of people thinking that clipping is THE sign of inadequate amping - hey my iPod never clips.

Oh and for iPod lovers, both my k701 and hd650 sound pretty terrible out of an iPod and my Shure SRH840 trounces them in every department. That is the POINT - you would be better off getting an AT that doesn't require an amp etc. Not only do you save money but it sounds better.

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by midoo1990 /img/forum/go_quote.gif ok we agree then but i still find your post evocative and not related to this thread

Yea I seemed to have digressed.

I wanted to write that because I felt the newcomers (here and in other threads) were taking advice the wrong way and more for the purpose of being argumentative. I guess I was just pushing for the mindset that we should learn from the experience of those who've been here longer instead of trying to rebut everything with the relatively small experience we have. It wasn't really directed at a single person, and as I just said, I've been guilty of the same in the past.

That being said...lets return to the original discussion.

 

[MomijiTMO]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oqvist /img/forum/go_quote.gif As for amp output certainly impressed with an K701. Known to be quite inefficient and demanding on amplification. A lot of the complaints here seems to be from an elitistic approach. Or from old audiophiles not keeping up on soundcard technology? Soundcards is soundcards whereas DACs is labelled as DAC1, Lavry DA11, Keces, Valab etc etc. Soundcards are so inferior they can just be soundcards or???

WUT???

I don't think people have this perspective at all. Everyone rates the STX highly but it isn't a giant killer etc. The dac chip isn't the only thing in a dac after all.

 

[midoo1990]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MomijiTMO /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm tired of people finding the $100 or $200 GIANT KILLA to power their k701/dt880/hd650 to near maximum sound. Woohoo. I'm also tired of people thinking that clipping is THE sign of inadequate amping - hey my iPod never clips. Oh and for iPod lovers, both my k701 and hd650 sound pretty terrible out of an iPod and my Shure SRH840 trounces them in every department. That is the POINT - you would be better off getting an AT that doesn't require an amp etc. Not only do you save money but it sounds better.

i think we agree to disagree

.i will stop now because i am tired of trying to prove my point that an amp makes MUCH BETTER difference than using it with an ipod but the k701 directly from an ipod will crush lower end models like senn hd595 that is supposed to be paired with an ipod in the first place.i will continue reading this thread but i wont comment because i feel i said what i have to say

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shahrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yea I seemed to have digressed. I wanted to write that because I felt the newcomers (here and in other threads) were taking advice the wrong way and more for the purpose of being argumentative. I guess I was just pushing for the mindset that we should learn from the experience of those who've been here longer instead of trying to rebut everything with the relatively small experience we have. It wasn't really directed at a single person, and as I just said, I've been guilty of the same in the past. That being said...lets return to the original discussion.

fair enough