[MrGreen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by midoo1990 /img/forum/go_quote.gif and yet this percentage will sound better than the the other 100% headphone.

I have to interject. Using a headphone that doesn't require a large amount of voltage or current will not only be cheaper but will sound better. When you buy a $1400 headphone and then a $2000 amp, you are NOT getting $3400 sound quality. You are getting $1400 sound quality for the price of $3400 (assuming your dac doesnt need upgrading). If you were to say buy a headphone that performs equally well in Price

erformance in a well-amped situation, however doesn't rely on a headphone amp it will sound better than the other.

Just becuase something needs a headphone amp does not mean it is superior. In most cases it simply means that it is an inefficient system. An amp doesnt make magic happen, it allows the magic to happen. How powerful an amp is required is the only difference.

 

[midoo1990]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif I absolutely believe that you can get good sound on even the smallest of budgets, but to give newbies the impression that some high-end headphones won't reveal the quality of the components you're using is 100% false. Some folks think that portable amps can drive the 650s well. That is 100% false, though they can sure make them loud, and some folks will enjoy the sound.

how much difference in percentage between the best portable amp in the world and a desktop amp?and please dont tell me huge or night and day difference,i know your opinion about the whole portable amp thing but you have a greater experiance than me ofcourse and i want to know your honest answer.

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by midoo1990 /img/forum/go_quote.gif i disagree completely with the OP message too.if you get a headphone that suits the ipod and easy to drive and listened to it,yes it will sound 100% as they should sound be cause it is recomended or advertised to the ipod.However,if you get say HD800 or the k701 and paired it with the ipod,they will sound at best 60-70% and yet this percentage will sound better than the the other 100% headphone.yes the amp does make difference and if i plugged my k701 in the ipod,the sound will well... become worse BUT not bad or unlistenable as everyone is saying,the amp improves about 30-40% of the sound and some people find the 60% they get from the headphone is very enjoyable that they can sacrifice the other 30%.this depends entirely on the psychology and satisfaction level of the listener.just my thoughts.

I wish it were as simple as that in that we could always expect incremental/relative reduction in sound quality. But it isn't. I don't think anyone is talking about from great to unlistenable. It's rarely that cut and dry in this business. However, it's unbelievably odd and rather ... ok let me say it... silly/ignorant to buy an HD800 and plug it into an iPod. OTOH, though Grados sound better when amp'd, there are a couple of the very good models that do perform well unamp'd. However, I will still maintain that I am personally perplexed by one who would purchase and RS1 for that sort of money and then listen to it unamp'd.

In the end... to each his own. It takes all sorts to make up the music loving community.

 

[roker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvrboy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Maybe a sticky thread on which cans NEED amps.

This is where I disagree with you, ALL cans NEED amps to truly shine. I bet that even the iPod crudphones sound better through a nice amp (though the improvement might be lower than 5% in that case). And for the headphones that are not very amp dependent, a good source will always make them sound better.

 

[midoo1990]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrGreen /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have to interject. Using a headphone that doesn't require a large amount of voltage or current will not only be cheaper but will sound better. When you buy a $1400 headphone and then a $2000 amp, you are NOT getting $3400 sound quality. You are getting $1400 sound quality for the price of $3400 (assuming your dac doesnt need upgrading). If you were to say buy a headphone that performs equally well in Price erformance in a well-amped situation, however doesn't rely on a headphone amp it will sound better than the other. Just becuase something needs a headphone amp does not mean it is superior. In most cases it simply means that it is an inefficient system. An amp doesnt make magic happen, it allows the magic to happen. How powerful an amp is required is the only difference.

really??ok,please explain to me why my k701 trumps my ie8(which have some characteristics that resembles full size headphone like soundstage and openes..) and my friend's hd595 that i listened extensively to yesterday directly from my touch and both the senns. are compatible or shall i say advertised here to be excellent with the ipod???

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by midoo1990 /img/forum/go_quote.gif how much difference in percentage between the best portable amp in the world and a desktop amp?and please dont tell me huge or night and day difference,i know your opinion about the whole portable amp thing but you have a greater experiance than me ofcourse and i want to know your honest answer.

Anyone that would give you an answer to that question is making stuff up. There are way too many variables in play to say anything true, what headphones are you using being the main one followed closely by what amps and what sources (gear and recordings) If someone answers your question directly, know they're full of it.

 

[Bullseye]

He did say something about money:

Quote:

...then use a soundcard or really really cheap amp to power them

I disagree with what you have said regarding components and haven't been able to find measurements of electrostatic amplifiers when having a high impedance load, even so there was a thread at the sound science forum involving stats amplifiers which didn't give anything for certain. I have some experience as well and it doesn't follow up your reasoning.

Even so as I feel where this might get going I will stay back in the shadows and continue reading what people have to say. This kind of thread hasn't been the first one to come...

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif The OP said nothing about money, and there are certainly good amplifiers that aren't expensive, but sometimes money does enter the equation, especially with some very high-end headphones that are capable of revealing even subtle changes in the audio chain. The Stax O2 is a very revealing headphone. Unfortunately, the very few amps that drive it well are expensive. That's just the way it is. Since the DIY guys are busy working on some 'stat amps right now, maybe that will change in a couple years, but for now no one who has heard a lot of different amps with the O2s can deny it's the reality. There are a lot more choices with dynamic headphones, and finding the right component synergy isn't always about spending the most money. I absolutely believe that you can get good sound on even the smallest of budgets, but to give newbies the impression that some high-end headphones won't reveal the quality of the components you're using is 100% false. Some folks think that portable amps can drive the 650s well. That is 100% false, though they can sure make them loud, and some folks will enjoy the sound. There are even differences in portable CD players. I have an old Denon pdcp that I picked up for cheap. The sound quality through the line out into a portable amp, is noticeably different than with a couple newer players (more expensive) I've tried. Soundcards can be good, but c'mon....as compared to what is the real question, and using which headphones, as some will reveal differences, some won't.

Finally regarding midoo1990's posts, it is funny to see how you make up percentages. It is something funny, so don't take it wrong

 

[1Time]

This is a great thread - just the fodder I need (all in one place) to write a headphones blog or whatever. Thanks!

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrGreen /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have to interject. Using a headphone that doesn't require a large amount of voltage or current will not only be cheaper but will sound better. When you buy a $1400 headphone and then a $2000 amp, you are NOT getting $3400 sound quality. You are getting $1400 sound quality for the price of $3400 (assuming your dac doesnt need upgrading). If you were to say buy a headphone that performs equally well in Price erformance in a well-amped situation, however doesn't rely on a headphone amp it will sound better than the other.

You need only listen for yourself to know that it isn't as simple as this. It's very easy to propose hypothetical cans that perform equally well amp'd as opposed to unamp'd. Furthermore, all amps aren't created equal.

Direct experience is a great thing. It's eye opening, especially, in this business.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrGreen /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just becuase something needs a headphone amp does not mean it is superior. In most cases it simply means that it is an inefficient system. An amp doesnt make magic happen, it allows the magic to happen. How powerful an amp is required is the only difference.

Again, I think you misunderstand. The OP's point is that many newbies come proposing to use unamp'd, a can that's inefficient, is a shadow of itself unamp'd, and which is often very expensive and a wasted investment unamp'd considering the better anamp'd alternatives available. If efficient and expensive/cheap cans were being used uamp'd, this thread wouldn't have started.

 

[midoo1990]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aimlink /img/forum/go_quote.gif I wish it were as simple as that in that we could always expect incremental/relative reduction in sound quality. But it isn't. I don't think anyone is talking about from great to unlistenable. It's rarely that cut and dry in this business. However, it's unbelievably odd and rather ... ok let me say it... silly/ignorant to buy an HD800 and plug it into an iPod. OTOH, though Grados sound better when amp'd, there are a couple of the very good models that do perform well unamp'd. However, I will still maintain that I am personally perplexed by one who would purchase and RS1 for that sort of money and then listen to it unamp'd. In the end... to each his own. It takes all sorts to make up the music loving community.

ok if someone got a Ducatti race motorcycle and used it in the city rather than open roads,wont he enjoy it more than if he bought the 2000$ recomended city motorcycle?he is not usind it to its full potential but it trumps everything else on budget or reocomended for cities..come on man,see where i am going...

 

[MrGreen]

Arent they two very different headphones? Maybe you just prefer the K701? They're your ears not mine.
$x sound quality at 90% > $x sound quality at 60%.

Simple mathjs, buddy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aimlink /img/forum/go_quote.gif You need only listen for yourself to know that it isn't as simple as this. It's very easy to propose hypothetical cans that perform equally well amp'd as opposed to unamp'd. Furthermore, all amps aren't created equal. Direct experience is a great thing. It's eye opening, especially, in this business. Again, I think you misunderstand. The OP's point is that many newbies come proposing to use unamp'd, a can that's inefficient, is a shadow of itself unamp'd, and which is often very expensive and a wasted investment unamp'd considering the better anamp'd alternatives available. If efficient and expensive/cheap cans were being used uamp'd, this thread wouldn't have started.

I think you misunderstand me, sorry. I wasn't talking to the OP at all, but to the gentleman I was quoting

I was talking about the misconception that if something is hard to drive then it is a better headphone (which he seems to be afflicted with), as he suggested that an HD800 from an ipod will be better than <can x> and yet I can think of several that will perform better more than likely (JH13 pro comes to mind FWIR) because the JH13pro will be performing closer to its potential than the HD800.

Hypothetical situations are perfect examples to talk about how there are "unamped" headphones that perform just as well as or better than those that need amps (for example, I find the AD900 or even AD1000 to be a better performer than the HD650 but if I bring that up it will start all kinds of problems from people who prefer it the other way around), despite them being at a roughly similar price point.

If you read my posts you'll see that I dont say that amps are created equal. In fact I gave a specific example (not only in this thread) about how my new amp is totally superior to my old one, not only in the power it provides but also the clarity in the sound it allows my headphones to produce.

 

[midoo1990]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullseye /img/forum/go_quote.gif Finally regarding midoo1990's posts, it is funny to see how you make up percentages. It is something funny, so don't take it wrong

hehe,i dont know what to compare it to except percentage

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullseye /img/forum/go_quote.gif I disagree with what you have said regarding components and haven't been able to find measurements of electrostatic amplifiers when having a high impedance load, even so there was a thread at the sound science forum involving stats amplifiers which didn't give anything for certain. I have some experience as well and it doesn't follow up your reasoning.

Which 'stat amplifiers have you heard with the O2? I've listened to the KGSS, BH, BHSE, Woo GES, Frank Cooter's beastie homebrew amp, SinglePower ES1s and ES2s, and various Stax amps.


Quote:

Finally regarding midoo1990's posts, it is funny to see how you make up percentages. It is something funny, so don't take it wrong

Hah! Busted! It is funny, but I'm 100% sure I was 100% using the percentage as an written expression of emphasis, not as a mathematical statement or guessing game. Hopefully, people took it as such.

 

[midoo1990]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrGreen /img/forum/go_quote.gif Arent they two very different headphones? Maybe you just prefer the K701? They're your ears not mine. $x sound quality at 90% > $x sound quality at 60%. Simple mathjs, buddy. I think you misunderstand me, sorry. I wasn't talking to the OP at all, but to the gentleman I was quoting

no,i like both sound signatures and i adore the senns dark laid back SQ,if you read any of my posts in the IEM forum you will know how much i am a senn. fanboy..

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by midoo1990 /img/forum/go_quote.gif ok if someone got a Ducatti race motorcycle and used it in the city rather than open roads,wont he enjoy it more than if he bought the 2000$ recomended city motorcycle?he is not usind it to its full potential but it trumps everything else on budget or reocomended for cities..come on man,see where i am going...

I dislike these comparisons, though I see what you're getting at. There's a lot more to driving, riding than the speed you're going or are able to go. This is the problem and why I wouldn't be prepared to accept this as a valid comparison.

If someone max's out his/her budget buying the HD800 and then plugging it into an iPod, it may well be just fine if they wish to show off the can rather than fully appreciate/realize their huge investment.

I'll always make recommendations along these lines and I have strong arguments for defending it. It may be taken, it may not be. As long as it's a conscious decision.