[trose49]

In setting up an Apple TV music server I plan on using the optical out of the APT to a Meridian 16bit DAC.

I also have a Monarchy 48/96 DIP Upsampler.

My question is does anyone think the extra conection will be worth it to upsample from the stock 44.1kHz to 48kHz?

I could go optical to the Monarchy DIP and the digital coaxial to the Meridian DAC for the slight upsample. (due to the limits of the Dac)

Thoughts please????

The Monarchy also has a precision clock that may help with the Jitter I have heard the APTV is known for.

Either way someday I may upgrade the dac and make use of the total up-sample capabilities.

I figured I would ask if anyone thinks it would be a noticable upgrade to use the DIP?

 

[trose49]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electron Tube /img/forum/go_quote.gif Jitter reduction devices usually only work well with optical. With coax, sometimes they may even increase jitter just by being in the chain no matter how good the clock is. For your application, do use the dip. The upsampling to 48khz most likely does not give much audible gain to warrant the possibility of actually degrading the overall signal in the end. Stick with dip + 44.1 in my opinion.

It would be optical from the APTV which is known for jitter to the DIP! then coax to the DAC then analog to Amp!

Are you recommending or not?

 

[Herandu]

After having tried 44.1 to 48KHz upsampling, I wouldn't recommend it. The best way I can explain the result is by comparing it to a 320 x 200 picture that you convert to a 640 x 400 picture. You got more pixels, but the picture now looks very soft and less detailed. That's how the whole thing sounded to me. There isn't any extra detail in a 44.1KHz digital stream. So any upsampling is not extracting anything in the audio signal that was hidden beforehand.
An oversampling DAC is on the other hand far more useful. If you have one of those in your digital chain already, then you have nothing to gain.

 

[trose49]

The restrictions are really with my DAC which is a Meridain 203 with te DeltaSigma chipset. I have not heard it as of yet I just got it in.

I will try both optical to dac and the optical to Dip>Coax to Dac

But was under the impesstion that the clocking would make some difference. That was were I was hopin it would clean up the Apple optical out.

 

[lan]

You're losing stuff going to 16bit DAC so it may not be worth it. You own the stuff already and all tweaks are your mileage may vary so just see for yourself.

 

[trose49]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lan /img/forum/go_quote.gif You're losing stuff going to 16bit DAC so it may not be worth it. You own the stuff already and all tweaks are your mileage may vary so just see for yourself.

The Dac specs go to 48! so should be no loss that I can see.

Obviously I will try and post results but I was hoping for some experienced Dac users input thats all!

 

[grawk]

Most of your music (if not all) was sourced at 44/16. Set the appletv at 44/16 and don't worry about it.

 

[trose49]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif Most of your music (if not all) was sourced at 44/16. Set the appletv at 44/16 and don't worry about it.

Forgetting the upsampling for a moment. Any advantage to the reclocking of the aptv?

 

[lan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by trose49 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Dac specs go to 48! so should be no loss that I can see. Obviously I will try and post results but I was hoping for some experienced Dac users input thats all!

The upsampling device will make the signal 24bit when upsampling and since the DAC is 16bit, it will chop off something. Yeah you might get less jitter though. You just have to test it out and see.

 

[Jo6Pak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif Most of your music (if not all) was sourced at 44/16. Set the appletv at 44/16 and don't worry about it.

Yes. Thank you...

 

[grawk]

Take something at starts at 16bit. Pad to 24. Chop back down to 16. You won't lose a thing. Really, I promise. There's nothing magic happening. It's not inventing ex4tra data. It's padding with 0s. 44 to 48 will interpolate, which will make things potentially worse. Don't do it. There are advantages to reampling on the fly to much higher rates. There are no advantages to resampling from 44 to 48.

 

[trose49]

I was considering an ACK DACK which is why I was trying to find a monarchy in the first place just to convert optical to coaxial.

The upsampler version became available so I got it figuring I may use the benefits down the road. By the sounds of it I should have just got the non upsampling version of the dip.

I have the option to send the unit back to the owner but if anyone is interested I may post it in the fs forum just to save on return cost and forward the owner his money vs having him have to relist on audiogon. It was a great deal at 190 and retails at 350!

 

[lan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif Take something at starts at 16bit. Pad to 24. Chop back down to 16. You won't lose a thing. Really, I promise. There's nothing magic happening. It's not inventing ex4tra data. It's padding with 0s. 44 to 48 will interpolate, which will make things potentially worse. Don't do it. There are advantages to reampling on the fly to much higher rates. There are no advantages to resampling from 44 to 48.

Where did you find out it's padding with 0 when going from 44 to 48khz? I'd need a link please. I thought it was resampling making new points not padding.

 

[Alleyman]

Its padding when converting from 16bit to 24 bit not when resampling, which is what grawk said.

 

[trose49]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif Take something at starts at 16bit. Pad to 24. Chop back down to 16. You won't lose a thing. Really, I promise. There's nothing magic happening. It's not inventing ex4tra data. It's padding with 0s. 44 to 48 will interpolate, which will make things potentially worse. Don't do it. There are advantages to reampling on the fly to much higher rates. There are no advantages to resampling from 44 to 48.

I just got off the phone with Monarchy direct. I brought up this scenerio to them and was told the following.

The upsampling freq is a minor increase in quality but the bigger and more noticable advantages of the DIP is the accuracy of the clock, the increase level of the the digital signal and the noise reduction circutry.

I mentioned the fact that I would be using 16bit source and the "padding issue" Monarchy said that indeed with the increase to 24bits you are adding 0's to the stream however the 16bit DAC will not even see that data so the advantages of the DIP are still in place without any degredation of the signal and in fact many people buy the upsampler version so they have more options in the furture to upgrade to 24bit DAC.

So the idea of 16 bit to 24 bit and back is not really the case. It is 16 bit to 24bit and then the DAC only sees the 16 bit portion of the 24bit Signal according to Monarchy. Since the remaining 24 bit data is all 0's at this point and the DAC doesnt see them I would still be getting the other benefits of the DIP.

So two ways of thinking from here.

1) This is the Manufaturer and what else are they going to say?
2) The guy knows what he's talking about and sound quality will be increased.

I'm at least more inclined to try it now and was getting the idea it was a waste of time and the added cost of a digital cable to my system.

I will note that I told the rep from Monarchy that I already had purchased the unit not that I was considering a purchase so I am more inclined to believe option#2

Wouldnt you?

We will find out the answer to this question!

Stay Tuned!