[donunus]

Is there any reason for me to want to get either of these two popular cans when I already have the audio technica AD2000? What am i missing??? I notice that people with ad2ks tend to like them more than their hd650s or k701s so why then are people spending the big bucks on those headphones that need more money spent for good amps.

I am asking because I am thinking of getting either of those with maybe a little edge to the k701 and a decent liquid sounding amp for my next purchase

 

[dreamwhisper]

What are you missing?

What do you want to hear more of that the AD2000's aren't delivering?

I've always thought the ATH or Grado cans as good contrast to the Sennheiser line.

 

[donunus]

what i'm missing is that immersive huge soundstage that i know the k701s can deliver but the question then becomes... will it sound bad with my smiths, chameleons, new order,... you get the picture.

 

[dreamwhisper]

I haven't heard the K701 but from what I've read they aren't immersive sounding.

If you're looking for immersive sounding headphones- HD650s look no further. (though I personally haven't heard many headphones)

From what I've read HD650's in balanced configuration are comparable to (tho a tier below) R10, L3000, electrostats for a LOT less cash.
So there is a huge amount of room to upgrade.

Quote:

Originally Posted by donunus /img/forum/go_quote.gif what i'm missing is that immersive huge soundstage that i know the k701s can deliver but the question then becomes... will it sound bad with my smiths, chameleons, new order,... you get the picture.

smiths? chameleons?
What are these?

...Well, there's my $.02. I really shouldn't have responded to this never having heard the K701.
I should go to bed. (3 am)
Good luck.

 

[donunus]

how about those k501s you have. arent those really immersive? they are in the same family as the 701

 

[tonsosnot]

I tried out the K701s with some Smiths tonight, and using the HD-555's as a reference (if I remember correctly, I think you've said you have some experience with these) altogether I'd say the K701s provide a much more enjoyable experience.

I'm not a huge Smiths fan, but here's a few quick impressions with a couple songs..

Girlfriend in a Coma - The soundstage on the 701 is larger in all three dimensions, not a ton deeper, but much wider. The 555s sound much more congested, and the instrument seperation is not nearly as good. The snare and bass drum get muddled up with the basslines, and it is sometimes hard to distinguish the individual guitar melodies. The 701s easily seperate the guitars, and you can hear how the melodies wonderfully intertwine. At about 0:46 into the song, the panning of the strings is much more dramatic on the 701, and the snare is noticeably punchier. The 701 sounds more detailed and cleaner in general, but I don't have much experience with the Sennheisers (they belong to my roommate), so the muddiness may be the veil I hear about.

Back to the Old House: Again, much better instrument isolation with the 701s. Most noteably in the bass lines, where the bass guitar definitely stands on its own versus getting lost in the drums. On the 555s, the vocals sound much too forward, and drowns out details like the drummer hitting the rim of the snare with his stick. You can still tell that its there, but you have to look for it, where as on the 701s, it stands out naturally. Vocals also fit in much more naturally on the 701s.

I would say the biggest downside of the 701s with the Smiths is that they sound a bit too "analytical" all the time, which in more upbeat songs translates into "boring." On songs with more energy, like Bigmouth Strikes Again, Girlfriend in a Coma, or This Charming Man, while sounding better on the 701 (read: clear, detailed), are more enjoyable to listen to on the 555s (especially after a little EQing to cut the mids a bit).

I think the K701s are a phenomenal complementary headphone if you already own headphones that have some excitement to them. I'm not sure if the AD2000s fall into that category or not, as I know squat about them..

 

[Agnostic]

If you want huge immersive soundstage I'd say get any of the Stax Lambda incarnations.

 

[tonsosnot]

By the way, A/Bing two headphones with 9 foot cables = not good times.

 

[donunus]

tonsosnot, great impressions. They make me want to try the k701s. the only thing i get confused about is why they are less fun when they do so many things correctly

 

[Gradofan2]

I don't think you're going to find it in the HD650s (from my experience with them). While I haven't tried the "new" version of the HD650s, I've tried the "old" version... and the AD2000s simply "leave them in the dust"... as do the HD580/600s... and... the D5000s.

And... I've yet to see any comments that suggest... they can be made to perform as well as these phones... even with huge investments in set up (balanced, or otherwise). I mean... if you're looking for "improvements" of the 5-10% magnitude... then by all means... spend "mega-bucks" on a set up to drive the HD650s.

But... without that... I'd save my money... and "refine my set up to optimize... the AD2000s, or HD580/600s, or D5000s, or RS-1s... without spending "mega-bucks" for that 5-10% improvement.

On the other hand... if you can't "resist the temptation," "make the journey" and report back - I'm betting, you'll agree. And... if you don't... and you find they're really better than I experienced... then I'd be interrested to discover that also. Since you've got the AD2000s as your "reference" - if the HD650s improve enough to actually rival them, then, I'd be impressed.

 

[egokun]

What more could you ever need when you have the ATH-AD2000?

I still have my K701, but I've hardly touched it since I got into the AD2k. The K701 really has too much air for my taste, and its upper mids and treble hurt my ears, while the AD2k sound smooth and engaging - quite my ideal sound, actually. I can but wonder what other cans sound like, but since I got the AD2k, I'm not that curious anymore and I think I could live with them alone. The K701 is nowhere as involving, unless a better source and amp and maybe going balanced can somehow change its sound dramatically. I'm curious about the Senn sound, but as I've said, I can live without, at least for a while longer

 

[V-DiV]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donunus /img/forum/go_quote.gif tonsosnot, great impressions. They make me want to try the k701s. the only thing i get confused about is why they are less fun when they do so many things correctly

I've been comparing the K701 and HD600. See my review:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/rev...-2-amp-332171/

The K701 has a great sense of space and clarity. But for some recordings they may leave you craving more bass warmth.

The HD600 has plenty of bass warmth but not as much clarity or sense of space. Several Head-Fiers have said that HD650 has much more bass warmth (too much for some), though it is also more resolving than HD600.

 

[Agnostic]

I've heard the HD650 recently at an audio store, powered from an X-can V3 and it sounded way too dark for my taste. Possibly it will sound better from a solid state amp, but I wouldn't trade them for my HD580 from what I've heard.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't think you're going to find it in the HD650s (from my experience with them). While I haven't tried the "new" version of the HD650s, I've tried the "old" version... and the AD2000s simply "leave them in the dust"... as do the HD580/600s... and... the D5000s.

Can you please elaborate on the new version of HD650, do you still believe that's the case, can't remember anyone from CanJam reporting on the found difference? HD650 is certainly not left in the dust by AD2000, rather the opposite. AD2000 sounds "simplistic" in comparison, forward, hard hitting, fast, and fun, but like certain nuances are getting lost in this "excitement". I prefer AD2000 for fast metal and HD650 petty much for everything else, even metal sometimes.

 

[big-ban]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT /img/forum/go_quote.gif Can you please elaborate on the new version of HD650, do you still believe that's the case, can't remember anyone from CanJam reporting on the found difference? HD650 is certainly not left in the dust by AD2000, rather the opposite. AD2000 sounds "simplistic" in comparison, forward, hard hitting, fast, and fun, but like certain nuances are getting lost in this "excitement". I prefer AD2000 for fast metal and HD650 petty much for everything else, even metal sometimes.

I once owned the "old" version of the HD650 and compared to the new version it sounded somewhat duller, darker and less balanced. The old version definitely had more and a little looser bass and less pronounciation in the upper midrange and treble. The new HD650 is simply better overall than the old version - and the difference is obvious. It's like two different headphones altogether and in my opinion, Sennheiser should have named this revised version HD660 or something.

@donunus:
The HD650 is an excellent headphone and certainly not ultimately worse/better than the AD2000. It has more bass weight overall, more midbass but less attack. Its bass can sound wooly and slow at times, but with Jazz and slowed paced music it's just a great match.
The AD2000 is more forward in the mids, meaning it sounds more engaging and energetic. You could say the HD650 "rounds the edges" of the sound, leading to a more relaxed and smooth presentation. It has a little more treble than the AD2000 though, but one could say that the highs of the AD2000 are slightly recessed anyway.

I prefer the AD2000 to the HD650 overall, which is also due to the AD2000's somewhat more coherent soundstage. But if it wasn't for the L3000 covering my occasional preference for bassier headphones, I'd probably get the HD650 as a complement.
... BUT, if soundstage is what you're looking for, look elsewhere. Forget about the HD650 - right now

The K701 left me sort of cold, I found its presentation pretty distant and uninvolving. To me it seemed great for spectating and dissecting music, not for foot tapping and having fun.
Mind you that I'm not a big fan of the Omega II (spacious, layered, dissecting) either, I just happen to prefer engaging and immediate headphones.

Oh and have you tried the W1000 yet? It has a much wider soundstage than the AD2000 and the cotton mod I did to them recently gave them some very fine extra bass that I'm enjoying quite a bit right now. It now actually has a bit more bass than the AD2000 overall, which surprised me a little.
What's interesting about the W1000 is that despite its wide soundstage, it's still immersive and immediate, sort of odd. For the price it's definitely a great headphone - and there's some modding potential by simply adding more padding in the right place.