[K93George]

Quote:

...The kind of stores the OP is talking about, I wouldn't even go into frankly, as commission salesman just annoy me, frankly...

 
The place I worked at definitely was not a specialty store.  The best speakers they stocked were Dali Concept 10s.  Best amp was a TX-SR608 and best pair of earphones would be the CX870s.  Can't remember the headphone selection...  Not saying to avoid these stores completely, they are great for giving you an enormous selection of products and if you can find the same product in the large retailers they are most likely if not always going to be cheaper then an elite audio store and I can confirm that on countless occasions.

 

[Frank I]

The profit on cables for dealers is 80 points. If you paid 200.00 for a cable the dealer paid 40.00. Cables is the biggest markup in the industry. Speakers work at 50-60 pts depending on the manufacturer. My dealer told me what his cost were and he sells mega priced systems.  Amazon  has 158.00 Diamondback cables for 75-85 shipped and every high end retailer sells them at list. So when you see cables that you want just ry to negotiate a reasonable price.

 

[Frank I]

Uncle Eric brings up so many valid points regarding the High End.  I for one would like to see more companies produce value for dollar products. Schiit has done this and frankly IMO most of the stuff being sold today is so overpriced including all these flagship headphones.  I am also guilty of purchasing these headphones but what the hobby needs is more value. Decware is another company that produces value products. Many companies are making obscene profits on the products they produce IMO.

 

[Elysian]

Quote:

@ Elysian
On the Sound Science forum you can find a few pages in a letter regarding someone who contacted the creators of the USB specification. They didn't think there was any advantage to "better" cables, even considering power being supplied through them.

Interesting.  I'll go check it out, thanks.  Might save me from buying Wireworld Ultraviolet USB cables!

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

I buy second-hand Van Den Hul interconnect cables off of Audiogon because VDH don't advertise, so you end up neither paying the company's advertising budget, nor the store markup. They also make their cables from the raw materials themselves and build them to last forever. I did try a pair of Nordost Heimdalls once, but they caused audible tonal distortion. Other than that, I make my own mostly.  The kind of stores the OP is talking about, I wouldn't even go into frankly, as commission salesman just annoy me, frankly.

Yeah Nordost cables are definitely not neutral. The K-S and Siltech stuff I have is pretty much right down the middle, erring ever so slightly to the warm and sweet side which is how I like things to sound. My cables are also pretty much all from Audiogon. Cables have no moving parts and nothing ever really wears out, so buying used at a fraction of the retail makes a ton of sense.
 

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

Interesting.  I'll go check it out, thanks.  Might save me from buying Wireworld Ultraviolet USB cables!

The Ultraviolet won't do all that much. If you want to experiment with high quality USB cables, try a Locus Polestar.
 

 

[Prog Rock Man]

That there is such a mark up on cables is entirely due to forums such as this where people claim all sorts of special powers for cables get free reign to post away, but those who caste doubt on such claims are marginalised.
 
People have seen there is a market and feed it. That is easy to do as there is no real science behind what they do apart from what has been known since the 1800s.
 
Yet go to USB.org and HDMI.org or ask a reputable organisation to test cables such as Which? consumer magazine and they say there is no difference so long as the cable is made to standard.
 
I bought my HDMI cable for £5 off eBay, made by That Cable. I don't do BS audio salesmen and have bought hifi off the internet for a few years now to avoid them.

 

[Elysian]

I've disqualified high-end cables from my system unless someone wants to let me double-blind test with their high-end cables once my system's completed.  If I can find someone doing a fire sale on their used Locus cables, I'll consider it, but I usually don't see used cables take more than a 30-60% cut in price.
 
The cables I'm currently looking to replace my stock cables with are:
Signal Cable MagicPower & Silver Resolution Balanced
Mogami standard balanced with Neutrik plugs
(maybe) Canare Blue DA206
 
Pros generally seem to stick by Mogami and Canare, so I don't think I need better than that.  I like what I've read about Signal Cable, so they look like they an interesting option.

 

[pigmode]

Great info in this thread, DaveBSC. I've done my share of cable experimentation, and have ended up with two ICs that suit a variety of needs. Those are the Luminous Audio Synchestra Reference, and the Grover Ultimate Reference R3. I doubt I'll be doing much experimenting anymore, but still need 2-3 ICs for system expansion---preferable used to avoid burn-in burnout. 

 

[Elysian]

Hmm, those Grover Huffman cables look interesting, too.  The ICs are within the same price range as the reference-grade signal cable stuff, but the Signal Cable power cables are much cheaper.
 
Those Furutech terminations cost a pretty penny!
 
I wonder how well the SC MagicStrip compares against something like a Oyaide or Allied Wiremold.  Nice thing about the MagicStrip is you can get it with an extended cord.

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

The cables I'm currently looking to replace my stock cables with are:
Signal Cable MagicPower & Silver Resolution Balanced
Mogami standard balanced with Neutrik plugs
(maybe) Canare Blue DA206
 
Pros generally seem to stick by Mogami and Canare, so I don't think I need better than that.  I like what I've read about Signal Cable, so they look like they an interesting option.

The MagicPower is just some bulk wire in Techflex with some Marincos on it. It's fairly reasonably priced, but that's all it is. For the same money, buy yourself some DH Labs Power Plus bulk AC wire, and some Marinco or Hubbell connectors for a few bucks. It's much better wire than what Signal is using. For source components, Furutech FP-314AG is really nice for about $40/meter. Oyaide's PA-23 bulk AC is a little bit more, but it's excellent.
 
The Silver Resolution balanced though I can vouch for. Very nice for the money. Mogami is probably the value king in cables. They sound better than they have any right to. Canare not so much.

 

[Elysian]

Thanks for the recommendations, very helpful.  I think I actually may just DIY the cables at this rate.  Looked at the prices and saw that the actual cables for even $200-600 cables are being sold from the manufacturer for about $0.93/ft.
 
Is there a good place to read about the kinds of cables/wire available, and the best connectors/terminators to pair them with?  Is there a good thread I can read for the equipment I need to make a proper cable?  I have a lot of shop equipment on-hand, so if it's standard stuff, I probably have it all already.  The Oyaide and Furutek bulk wire suggestions look very attractive.
 
The main thing I'm struggling with is that I'm going to have a cv transformer located 20ft or so away, so I need to figure out the best way to manage that distance in between.  I was thinking of having a good quality splitter run directly from the transformer, then use 1.5-2m cables to connect from the splitter to the amp, D/A, etc.  One thing I'm not sure about is if I need a fantastic cable for that 15-20 feet of distance between transformer and splitter, and if all the cables need to be the same, like if I had to stick with the Furutech or Oyaide throughout.  Qty2 4.5m cables and qty1 7m cable would probably run close to $700 for the wires alone for the Oyaide, and that doesn't count the connectors.
 
Ofc, that's still far, far cheaper than buying everything premade, which would easily be in the thousands.

 

[pigmode]

Quote:

Hmm, those Grover Huffman cables look interesting, too.  The ICs are within the same price range as the reference-grade signal cable stuff, but the Signal Cable power cables are much cheaper.
 

 
Not to discourage, but his current ICs were to my ears flawed. Ymmv. In a moment of post concussive syndrome, I had sent in a fav, the Grover Silver Reference to be updated/rebuilt when what I really wanted was a repair. I ended up finding the Grover UR for $40. and its a keeper. His earlier cables that made his name ran from $80-140.
 
I have Signal cables bookmarked, and would like to find a used pair of his silver ICs. In the meantime I'm going with what I know, and have picked up a set of silver Bogdans off the classified. 
 
 

 

[Chris_Himself]

What if I have an audiophile TV though?
 
Lol digital cables are probably where I'd have to put my foot down

 

[K93George]

I'm sorry guys I just died of laughter after reading this Wiki article on "Speaker wire".  Let me quote a few parts...

"Better purification of oxidizing materials such as copper is said to result in more consistent conductive properties throughout the length of the wire, but this is a non-issue in terms of its effect on sound quality."

What exactly is the point of silver then..?

"Even with poor-quality wire, an audible degradation of sound may not exist. Many supposedly audible differences in speaker wire can be attributed to listener bias or the placebo effect."

You guys are reading this right?  They just spat in the face of anything (speaker wire) even entry-level.

"...manufacturers' practice of making claims about their products either with no valid engineering or scientific basis, or of no real-world significance."

Damn, Wiki is on a roll!

This next one is almost a mockery of audiophiles...    "Many manufacturers catering to audiophiles (as well as those supplying less expensive retail markets) also make unmeasurable, if poetic, claims about their wire sounding open, dynamic, or smooth. To justify these claims, many cite electrical properties such as skin effect, characteristic impedance of the cable, or resonance, which are generally little understood by consumers. None of these has any measurable effect at audio frequencies, though each matters at radio frequencies."

Wow, these people sound like con artists.  At least I understand what is making the difference in sound, some people have the superhuman ability to hear radio frequencies, how they got into the recording in the first place is beyond me, but some are hearing it