[Ari]

Alex !

Price is a problem at all. I'm working out some options. Let you know.

_______________________________

Flasken

Long time no see you man !!

You are right about *free* software Flasken. But if I tell you anything about it, I'll have to kill you then...

Thanks guys

Ari

 

[fiddler]

What, you mean pirating software? You can do that on a Mac, too.

 

[D-EJ915]

Pirating is illegal, mofos, that's why I don't do it, it just makes stuff MORE expensive, those morons will never learn.

 

[CaptBubba]

Yeah, plus I have access to academic licensing, which is nice.

 

[Ph34rful]

As much as I like OS X and the new Apple notebooks...

I just don't think I could ever pruchase one. Unless I just had a ton of money to throw around.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ph34rful As much as I like OS X and the new Apple notebooks... I just don't think I could ever pruchase one. Unless I just had a ton of money to throw around.

Just goes to show you that no matter how many times you point something out in a thread (i.e., that PowerBooks are price-competitive with comparably-equipped Wintel laptops), people will ignore it and repeat the same old myths...

 

[D-EJ915]

It's exactly like I said, It's just a matter of what you like better, the IBMs and Apples are priced about the same, so it just depends on which one you like better, I like the IBMs better, but some poeple (macdef) like the Apples better, that's THEIR opinion; don't force it on someone else.

 

[chych]

You know, I've been looking for a small (12 or 10" LCD) PC laptop and I can't find anything that is cheaper than Apple's offerings. What gives? Can't justify getting a PC when I can get a Mac for the same price

Someone want to point me to one? (perhaps one with rs-232?)

 

[ls20]

ii already have a pc so i want an ibook... but it is so overpriced, though

 

[cyberhazard]

IBM Thinkpad T40P $3,279
14.1" screen
Intel Pentium M processor 1.60GHz
512MB DDR333 SDRAM
60GB hard drive
64MB ATI Mobility FIRE GL 9000
CD-RW/DVD-ROM Combo


Apple 15" Powerbook $2,599
15.2" Screen
1.25GHz PowerPC G4
512MB DDR333 SDRAM
80GB hard drive
64MB ATI Mobility Radeon 9600
Superdrive (DVD-R/CD-RW)

Just off of the short list of hardware features, the Powerbook is the clear leader. If we dig deeper into stuff like FireWire 400/800 and backlit keyboards the Thinkpad seems quite lame.

On the software side of things the Thinkpad comes with Microsoft Windows XP Professional (Security holes included). PC Doctor diagnostics, IBM Rapid Restore PC, Norton AntiVirus 2003 (Must have software for Windows). Oh, and lets not forget the top selling Lotus SmartSuite Millennium and Lotus Notes.
The Powerbook comes with OSX Jaguar (UNIX at its finest) and a little group of iApps. iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie and iDVD. All of which are more productive than anything else in there price range.

IMOHO, this choice would be a no-brainer. Unless the TrackPad vs TrackPoint is that big of an issue. I myself plug in a real mouse.

 

[Ph34rful]

Quote:

Originally posted by MacDEF Just goes to show you that no matter how many times you point something out in a thread (i.e., that PowerBooks are price-competitive with comparably-equipped Wintel laptops), people will ignore it and repeat the same old myths...

I disagree. I can get a nicely equiped Win laptop for much cheaper than a Mac.

In fact for a $1,000 you can get a very nice Win laptop.

2.4 Ghz P4
15" XGA Screen
512MB DDR Ram
16MB Radeon 7500
30GB Hard Drive
CDRW/DVD Drive

Powerbooks start at $1599. To me that is simply ridiculous. Especially when you look at what it is configured with at that price.

All of this is just my opinion of course.

 

[MacDEF]

To be fair, the 1.6GHz Pentium M is a bit faster than the 1.25GHz G4. But, as I've said many times, I think speed is overrated for all but a very few people who are doing things that actually push the processor to its limit (and gamers shouldn't be using a laptop anyways

). For the vast majority of users, the difference in speed here isn't going to be significant.

Overall I agree with you -- the PowerBook has a *much* better feature set, a better design, a much better software package, all at a lower price. (Using both regularly, I also think the PowerBook comes with a better OS, but that's a different debate

)

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ph34rful I can get a nicely equiped Win laptop for much cheaper than a Mac. In fact for a $1,000 you can get a very nice Win laptop. 2.4 Ghz P4 15" XGA Screen 512MB DDR Ram 16MB Radeon 7500 30GB Hard Drive CDRW/DVD Drive

What other features? Input/output? Battery life? Size? Build quality? Speakers? Screen quality? What included software? What brand/overall quality?

The above specs don't say much -- what's the big picture? That's the problem too many Wintel fans overlook. They look at a few specs and ignore the package. I've frequently had to price out laptops, both Wintel and Apple, for clients, and sometimes the Wintel laptops are cheaper, but sometimes the Apple laptops are cheaper.


Quote:

Powerbooks start at $1599. To me that is simply ridiculous. Especially when you look at what it is configured with at that price.

Apple's laptops start at $999 (lower in education markets). The PowerBook line, which starts at $1599, is the professional line.

Ridiculous? You're forgetting that the $1599 PowerBook is a subnotebook. It's tiny. It's tough to find a comparably sized Wintel notebook with comparable features for that price. In fact here's a comparison between the $1599 PowerBook G4 12" with wireless card and a comparable-quality, comparably-equipped IBM ThinkPad. If one has a clear advantage, I've highlighted it in blue:


PowerBook G4 12" w/AirPort Extreme: $1699

12.1" display (1024x768)
1GHz PowerPC G4
256MB DDR266 SDRAM (Max 1.25GB)
40GB Ultra ATA/100
NVIDIA GeForce FX Go5200 AGP 4x (32MB DDR) w/Mini-DVI out and VGA adapter
CD-RW/DVD drive
10/100BASE-T Ethernet
FireWire 400
USB2.0 (2)
AirPort Extreme (802.11g/802.11a)
Built-in Bluetooth
10/100Base-T Ethernet
56K V.92 modem
audio line-in
headphone-out
built-in omnidirectional mic
Stereo speakers (3-speaker setup)
~5 hour battery life
1.18" x 10.9" x 8.6" (110.6 cubic inches)
4.6 pounds (including optical drive and all ports)
one-year warranty


IBM X Series "Performance" with 80211a/b Wireless: $1679

12.1" display (1024x768)
1.4GHz Pentium M
256MB DDR266 SDRAM (Max 1.0GB)
40GB ATA/100
ATI Mobility RADEON M6-C16h AGP 4x (16MB DDR) (no video output)
Compact Flash slot
Built-In 802.11a/b
Built-in Bluetooth
10/100/1000Base-T Ethernet
Infrared Port
56K V.92 modem
Single mono speaker
~5.5 hour battery life
1.19" x 11" x 8.8" (115.2 cubic inches)
3.6 pounds (without optical drive or ports)
one-year warranty


The ThinkPad comes with no optical drive. In addition, in order to get any external jacks -- USB, video, audio, etc. -- on the ThinkPad, you have to buy an external port replicator or docking station. Major drawbacks.

Besides the obvious advantages highlighed above, the PowerBook uses 802.11g which is the new standard, whereas the ThinkPad uses 802.11a, which is a dead-end in my opinion (both support 802.11b). Plus the PowerBook includes a better software package. I would also contend that the PowerBook has a much better design and build. The ThinkPad gets the edge in speed with a faster processor and system bus, but the PowerBook clearly wins on features, software, and much else. The latter being more important for all but a few users.

So it's clear that the $1599 price isn't "ridiculous" by any means. In fact, it's a pretty good deal.

And when you move up to the higher-end, the same phenomenon occurs -- once you compare comparable notebooks, the alleged price difference disappears.

 

[lini]

MacDEF: Do you know by chance, whether Apple got rid of the dreaded "keyboard leaves marks on the display" problem that plagued the old Ti 15" Powerbooks? That seemed to be a major turn-off for me...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[D-EJ915]

Ultra ATA/100 is ATA/100

Who needs over 1GB in a ULTRAPORTABLE anyway??...the point is to be portable, not powerful.

I've personally heard the apple 12"s speakers and the best I can say is anemic.

The IBM comes with a semi-Full-Size Keyboard I might add, wheras the Apple one is not nearly as standard.

We're generally referring to the T40, which would be a better comparison, considering the 12" powerbook Ti is not an Ultra-Portable.

Quote:

Major drawbacks.

No, it is an ultraportable, and thus, is for the most part, required not to have those.

In the Business environment "A" is far superior to "G", which has higher dropout rates, and cannot compete in speed, "G" is barely faster than "B" and has interference because of it's very-much used 2.8GHz range. "A" also allows many more channels to be used than "G", about 20 or more, I forgot, whereas "G" only allows about 8 at most.