[rkw]

That wasn't what I found odd. My question was who would use a 16 bit master at 88 KHz? I would have thought they should have used 24 bit depth.

The source file is 16/44.1 and Audirvana unfolded it to 16/88.2. That's all the information we have from the screenshot. We don't know the resolution of the master they started with (might have been 24 bit).

 

[PortableMusic]

The source file is 16/44.1 and Audirvana unfolded it to 16/88.2. That's all the information we have from the screenshot. We don't know the resolution of the master they started with (might have been 24 bit).

i don't know about all this controversy that folks have with Tidal. i'm a newcomer (only around 3 months) to the world of headphones (but a long time audiophile) with just one set of headphones (Empyreans) and one DAP (A&K Kann Alpha) and i got a subscription to Tidal Hifi. the only issue i've noticed is that from time to time, when using Tidal on my whole house system (in-wall speakers and AVRs) which has a Bluesound Node 2i (connected via ethernet to a switch to my router), that it would, from time to time, abruptly stop streaming without any reason that i can find. Interestingly, the Kann Alpha has not abruptly stopped, however, i don't listen to the Kann Alpha for nearly as many hours straight as i do in my whole house AVR/Node 2i system, which tends to be on for many hours a day.

besides that, i do my critical listening on my headphones, and when i'm just doing regular things and want a little music in the background, i use the Node 2i and the whole house sound system, which is merely mid-fi (or low-fi), but convenient with built-in, in-wall speakers.

i don't have all the myriad of problems with the streaming bitrates. they all seem to work as advertised. additionally, both my DAP and the Node 2i have full unfolding of MQAs built-in. the DAP is even better in that the dual ES9068 dac chips have baked-in, on board hardware unfolding right on the dac chips. this would hopefully ensure that the full MQA unfolding is taking place without issues.

i haven't found issues thus far.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

The source file is 16/44.1 and Audirvana unfolded it to 16/88.2. That's all the information we have from the screenshot. We don't know the resolution of the master they started with (might have been 24 bit).

If it was a 24 bit master they should have had it unfold to 24/88.2. There are plenty of 24 bit files on Tidal. That kind of sample rate at 16 bits doesn't help so much especially with MQA.

 

[iFi audio]

(but a long time audiophile) with just one set of headphones (Empyreans) and one DAP (A&K Kann Alpha)

Let me just say that you went rather big from the get-go

Empyreans are cool, aren't they ?

 

[PortableMusic]

Let me just say that you went rather big from the get-go

Empyreans are cool, aren't they ?

@iFi audio:

when i moved into my current home, i had to decide to go sans floorstanding speakers and instead, get in-wall speakers and AVRs for an audio visual rack hidden away, or go the floorstanding speakers but lose some space and have less nice decor. after much thought, the former won. sadly, i've been without floorstanding speakers for ~10 years now.

during the last several months, it dawned upon me that as much as i don't typically prefer headphones over floorstanding speakers (love the visceral impact of full range speakers!), i might just get a bit of the high end enjoyment out of a pair of headphones and, with the advent of streaming, streaming services are now available.

many years ago, when i was in college, i spent a good portion of my savings on a pair of Stax electrostatics for my dorm room, even though i had a pair of LS 3/5a speakers in the room, there were times when i'd have to use headphones. with that familiarity of open back headphones, while realizing that electrostatics and planar magnetics are very different, i dug a bit deeper into the Empyreans and thought that the chances are good that i'd enjoy its sound as well. without having the ability nowadays to go listen to them in a showroom first, i took a leap of faith after much research.

ditto for the Kann Alpha: these DAPs didn't even exist when i stopped my audiophile hobby ~10 years ago. had to research and see which one i'd most likely enjoy using.

i'm glad i got the Empyreans/Kann Alpha/Tidal Hifi. these three have worked out well for me.

 

[iFi audio]

@iFi audio:

when i moved into my current home, i had to decide to go sans floorstanding speakers and instead, get in-wall speakers and AVRs for an audio visual rack hidden away, or go the floorstanding speakers but lose some space and have less nice decor. after much thought, the former won. sadly, i've been without floorstanding speakers for ~10 years now.

during the last several months, it dawned upon me that as much as i don't typically prefer headphones over floorstanding speakers (love the visceral impact of full range speakers!), i might just get a bit of the high end enjoyment out of a pair of headphones and, with the advent of streaming, streaming services are now available.

many years ago, when i was in college, i spent a good portion of my savings on a pair of Stax electrostatics for my dorm room, even though i had a pair of LS 3/5a speakers in the room, there are times when i'd have to use headphones. with that familiarity of open back headphones, while realizing that electrostatics and planar magnetics are very different, i dug a bit deeper into the Empyreans and thought that the chances are good that i'd enjoy its sound as well. without having the ability nowadays to go listen to them in a showroom first, i took a leap of faith after much research.

ditto for the Kann Alpha: these DAPs didn't even exist when i stopped my audiophile hobby ~10 years ago. had to research and see which one i'd most likely enjoy using.

i'm glad i got the Empyreans/Kann Alpha/Tidal Hifi. these three have worked out well for me.

Thanks for sharing! Headphones remove a number of issues regular stereo setups often suffer from (size and room acoustics) so I imagine that you don't miss speakers too much

And yes, slam from an open baffle, directness of crossoverless full-range drivers or mids done the LS 3/5a aren't easy to replace, so I feel your pain, but at the same time I'm happy that your headphone rig works well for you. Enjoy and Happy New Year

 

[Deolum]

I'm confused. My streamer is MQA ready and says it play MQA 24 bit to my Dac which is not MQA ready. What happens in my Dac then? Does it convert the 24 bit signal into 16 bit? Or does the streamer send two signals where one is 16 bit and the other is an encoded 24 bit?

 

[rkw]

I'm confused. My streamer is MQA ready and says it play MQA 24 bit to my Dac which is not MQA ready. What happens in my Dac then? Does it convert the 24 bit signal into 16 bit? Or does the streamer send two signals where one is 16 bit and the other is an encoded 24 bit?

Your streamer has done the MQA decoding to 24 bits. Nothing more needs to be done and your DAC will play the 24 bit stream directly.

 

[iliketohideincloset]

Looking forward to more feedback from all interested parties!

I am not really interested in high resolution in general as good recordings sound great to me in 16/44 as they are. Bad recordings won't sound any better no matter what. The only thing I experienced is that the Tidal/MQA 16/44 sound different to me than the non Tidal/MQA 16/44 of the same recording. If you can just listen to Muse - Origin Of Symmetry on Tidal and Qobuz both set to lossless or Tidal/MQA 16/44 and local 16/44 flac. I would be interested in your findings...

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I am not really interested in high resolution in general as good recordings sound great to me in 16/44 as they are. Bad recordings won't sound any better no matter what. The only thing I experienced is that the Tidal/MQA 16/44 sound different to me than the non Tidal/MQA 16/44 of the same recording. If you can just listen to Muse - Origin Of Symmetry on Tidal and Qobuz both set to lossless or Tidal/MQA 16/44 and local 16/44 flac. I would be interested in your findings...

Tidal seems to have some really good masters for MQA albums. The Van Morrison stuff is incredible. Also Elton John's Captain Fantastic sounds like vinyl.

The problem is that we have no way to know which masters anybody is using so there is no basis for comparison. All you can do is try to A-B whatever you're interested in.

Personally, I want the highest res version of the best master I can get so nothing is lost. I'm happy with the sound quality of Tidal Hifi and a lot of the Deezer stuff sounds great also. Deezer does not have exclusive mode so there is room for improvement. But at the end of the day I want to enjoy the music and not spend time analyzing it.

 

[Deolum]

Your streamer has done the MQA decoding to 24 bits. Nothing more needs to be done and your DAC will play the 24 bit stream directly.

Does it mean it's enough when one part is MQA ready? Streamer oder Dac?

And what is MQA studio?

 

[gimmeheadroom]

If your source has full MQA support that is all you need. It doesn't matter whether it's a streamer or DAC or streamer with a built-in DAC like node 2i.

MQA studio is the "officially approved MQA master" in theory the best sounding version or at least the one the guys with the money chose.

 

[Deolum]

If your source has full MQA support that is all you need. It doesn't matter whether it's a streamer or DAC or streamer with a built-in DAC like node 2i.

MQA studio is the "officially approved MQA master" in theory the best sounding version or at least the one the guys with the money chose.

Okay then Tidal is maybe not so bad as i thought. I thought every piece in the chain has to be MQA ready. Funny that in the last time almost every track that sounded especially good for me that it made me look on the display was in MQA but i thought it's just random because my Dac doesn't play MQA anyway. Then i'll so some more tests between MQA Studio and Qobuz the next days.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

The Tidal desktop app has two settings. If you use passthru MQA you will get an MQA stream with no unfolding. That means you get the unexpanded version. If you set the Tidal desktop app not to passthrough MQA then it will do the first unfold and you get a "better" stream. All this is with no hardware or software aside from the app.

If you have a streamer or DAC that has full MQA support, then you get the full unfolding.

You don't have to have any MQA software or hardware besides the desktop app to get at least a "good" MQA version.

https://support.tidal.com/hc/en-us/articles/360005773698-Optimizing-HiFi

"MQA files are compressed through a process known as ‘Music Origami’ in order to make them small enough to stream or download. TIDAL utilizes MQA’s Core Decoder compression technology to achieve the first unfold and deliver higher than CD-quality. This first unfold is capable of an output of 88.2kHz or 96kHz.

MQA Renderers are capable of the second unfold. Renderers can come in the form of products such as Digital Analog Converters or headphones. When paired with a core decoder they can complete the final unfold enabling you to hear exactly what the artist created and recorded in the highest possible sound quality. "

 

[MrWalkman]

The Tidal desktop app has two settings. If you use passthru MQA you will get an MQA stream with no unfolding. That means you get the unexpanded version. If you set the Tidal desktop app not to passthrough MQA then it will do the first unfold and you get a "better" stream. All this is with no hardware or software aside from the app.

If you have a streamer or DAC that has full MQA support, then you get the full unfolding.

You don't have to have any MQA software or hardware besides the desktop app to get at least a "good" MQA version.

https://support.tidal.com/hc/en-us/articles/360005773698-Optimizing-HiFi

"MQA files are compressed through a process known as ‘Music Origami’ in order to make them small enough to stream or download. TIDAL utilizes MQA’s Core Decoder compression technology to achieve the first unfold and deliver higher than CD-quality. This first unfold is capable of an output of 88.2kHz or 96kHz.

MQA Renderers are capable of the second unfold. Renderers can come in the form of products such as Digital Analog Converters or headphones. When paired with a core decoder they can complete the final unfold enabling you to hear exactly what the artist created and recorded in the highest possible sound quality. "

To bring some clarification: Tidal on its own is a MQA Core decoder. The "Passthrough" option is for if Tidal should do the first unfold or if it should just send the raw MQA data to the connected audio device.

While the "Passthrough" option is off, Tidal will do a first unfold, to 88.2/96 kHz. That means that you can benefit of the "Master" quality even if you don't have a device with MQA support.


Otherwise, there are two options:

1. You have a MQA Renderer device - this device needs a software counterpart to do the first unfold, and then the device itself will finish the unfold.

2. You have a MQA Full decoder - this device can fully decode the MQA file on its own, and you need to set "Passthrough" to on, so the MQA data will just be passed to the device, without doing any first unfolds or anything like that.


One example of a MQA Renderer is Dragonfly Cobalt. This USB DAC needs the "Passthrough" option in Tidal to be set to off, so Tidal will do the first unfold, followed by the USB DAC completing the final unfold. Otherwise, if the "Passthrough" setting will be set to on, this USB DAC will just play the 24/44.1/48 kHz FLAC file, without doing anything MQA-related.