Tidal Masters & MQA Thread!

[BobSmith8901]

Thanks for the heads-up! I just got that too, and it does indeed seem to be doing 1x MQA software decoding. There seems to be no way to select raw bit perfect passthrough for full 4x MQA decoding via USB however, and I doubt MQA renderer DACs would work either. For the USB path we still need to use a third-party app like UAPP.

The Verge: Tidal will make ‘Master’ quality recordings available to Android users

Uh Oh...FiiO X5III 1.21 firmware...new 2.11 Tidal Android Masters-capable app=distorted Hendrixian digital hash for Masters albums and non-masters too.

Maybe it's being on the bleeding edge of eligibility (Android 5.1 on the FiiO). All other indicators fine, getting the Masters logo on the albums, chose Masters in streaming/playback mode. Hmm..does it on all types of files. Houston we have a problem! Oh well, I'll shoot a msg out to Tidal and let em know after I try a few other things.

EDIT: tried all the obvious stuff, reboot, logout, clear cache--same problem. Shot a msg to support, we'll see what happens. Glad I've got UAPP!

 

[cobrabucket]

Uh Oh...FiiO X5III 1.21 firmware...new 2.11 Tidal Android Masters-capable app=distorted Hendrixian digital hash for Masters albums and non-masters too.

Maybe it's being on the bleeding edge of eligibility (Android 5.1 on the FiiO). All other indicators fine, getting the Masters logo on the albums, chose Masters in streaming/playback mode. Hmm..does it on all types of files. Houston we have a problem! Oh well, I'll shoot a msg out to Tidal and let em know after I try a few other things.

EDIT: tried all the obvious stuff, reboot, logout, clear cache--same problem. Shot a msg to support, we'll see what happens. Glad I've got UAPP!

Damn. Sorry to hear this. I have an Onkyo DP-X1 on the way that uses an older version of Android [5.1?]. I am worried this might happen to me as well. And other folks were having issues w/ The DP-X1 and UAPP. Starting to wonder if I made a mistake getting this Onkyo. Guess I should actually use it to see how it sounds, but signs aren't exactly making me optimistic.

 

[h-man]

Have just upgraded to latest tidal software on my pixel 3. Definitely streams in 1xMQA software decoding
Also, UAPP now streams the MQA from linked tidal account and outputs (in bitperfect mode) to my mojo
However, adding MQA streaming functionality to UAPP did cost an extra £3.79 - well worth it IMHO - sounds loads better than listening via the tidal app

 

[IrishAudio]

Have just upgraded to latest tidal software on my pixel 3. Definitely streams in 1xMQA software decoding
Also, UAPP now streams the MQA from linked tidal account and outputs (in bitperfect mode) to my mojo
However, adding MQA streaming functionality to UAPP did cost an extra £3.79 - well worth it IMHO - sounds loads better than listening via the tidal app

Why would steaming still sound loads better via UAPP when the Tidal app now allows the same x1 unfolding? They are both unfolding x1 MQA from the same source.

 

[h-man]

Because with UAPP it outputs it to my mojo, which sounds way better than listening to it from the dongle on the pixel 3

 

[IrishAudio]

Because with UAPP it outputs it to my mojo, which sounds way better than listening to it from the dongle on the pixel 3

Since I’m getting a Pixel 2 this week, have Tidal HiFi and an ES100 but looking at a mojo or xDSD, why couldn’t the Tidal app that now allows MQA unfolding also output it to the mojo?

 

[h-man]

Doesn't work at all for me direct from tidal app - will play around with it and update you if any luck. Not sure if tidal app can bypass the android DAC and output bitperfect to an external DAC

 

[BobSmith8901]

Damn. Sorry to hear this. I have an Onkyo DP-X1 on the way that uses an older version of Android [5.1?]. I am worried this might happen to me as well. And other folks were having issues w/ The DP-X1 and UAPP. Starting to wonder if I made a mistake getting this Onkyo. Guess I should actually use it to see how it sounds, but signs aren't exactly making me optimistic.

I sent an e-mail to support at Tidal and they've opened a ticket on my situation. I ended up uninstalling 2.11 and found the older 2.10 version online and reinstalled it. Everything working normally again in the Tidal app on the X5III.

My feeling is that there is some incompatibility, although as to where exactly I can't be sure. The FiiO being near the cutoff for Android eligibility may be a clue.

Again, glad that my unit plays well, most of the time, with UAPP and Masters files with and without a DAC. Would have been nice to get the new Tidal to play properly, as the app sits a bit more lightly on the X5III software and hardware than UAPP. We'll see if there's a solution.

EDIT: Another person over on the X7II thread having same problem w/his X7II after upgrading to new Tidal app.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...al-msd-dual-band-wifi-opt-out.854353/page-344

 

[h-man]

UAPP and tidal masters on the LG V30 .Wow I did not realise that the V30 does the full MQA unfold. It is reporting 176.4kHz frequency of the file when played via the headphone port .

 

[revand]

Doesn't work at all for me direct from tidal app - will play around with it and update you if any luck. Not sure if tidal app can bypass the android DAC and output bitperfect to an external DAC

It cannot do, because of Android. Only UAPP can do it.

I tried the new TIDAL Android app with MQA core decoding and I am so disappointed.
I am a big fan of TIDAL and for me the release of such an unreliable service causing heartache. I tried it on my XIAOMI MI8 phone and found:

1. I am unable to use my AQ DRF Red, because the TIDAL app is not able to send music to an external DAC,
2. This means that SQ is very much depending on the DAC can be found in the phone (this is not an issue with UAPP),
3.Playing music from MQA albums sections mostly works, but some albums (e.g. Jeff Goldblum's) played showing HIFI, not Masters,
4. I made several MQA playlists and every song has an M letter on the playlist showing that it is a Masters file, however most of the songs on my playlists can only be played with HIFI sign, not Masters. I went back later and the TIDAL app is consequently playing a Masters song either Masters or HIFI.
5. The sound quality was not bad at all, bur clearly worst than the same song played using UAPP. UAPP gives an opportunity to send music to an external DAC bit-perfectly! OK the SQ difference can be attributable to the DAC in my phone, which is not as good as the AQ DRF Red.

So all in all TIDAL Masters MQA unfolding at present form is similar to a half baked bread, absolutely not reliable!
There are good news as well:
1. We do not have to pay for the new services ,
2. The playback of the songs start insanely fast....BUT

I prefer to wait several seconds in UAPP for buffering in order to enjoy a very high quality playback instead of starting a song with a speed of the light, but having a less quality result.
The developer of UAPP explained in another topic that in TIDAL Android app there is no MQA logo and blue or green dot near the logo, most probably, because MQA company did not allow TIDAL to use these, since quality is not "guaranteed".

 

[jeffri]

If you are getting Hi-Fi instead of Master, it possibly that it plays file on your cache or if you have downloaded it before. Just reset the cache and remove previous download I think.

Nothing against UAPP developer, but I don't think Tidal is showing the MQA logo or blue/green dot indicator no matter which platform it is. That doesn't mean MQA company don't allow this, possibly just Tidal UX choice for their app.

Unfortunately I don't have any MQA DAC to test, or that I could confirm the bit/sample rate on my MQA-capable Onkyo Granbeat.

 

[Left Channel]

@revand & @jeffri this is from an article by Darko on the new 1x software decoding feature:

"According to MQA, the majority will decode sample rates up to 96kHz but readers are advised to check in with their smartphone manufacturer for confirmation.

"And because not all Android smartphones use the same internal DAC, there are presumably too many different DACs for MQA to know to tailor a ‘Rendering’ filter to each.

"Those wanting to nerd out on the full Android Tidal Masters experience – MQA decoding and rendering – will still need an LG V30/V40/G7 or an Essential."

 

[Mark Dirac]

I'm getting some good results playing Tidal from the Tidal app on my Android LG G6 via USB C into my Pro-Ject "Pre Box S2 Digital" DAC:

Playing Coldplay's "Politik", the S2D reports 192k and displays "MQB" with a purple dot (not blue or green)
Same when playing "Wasted Time (2013 Eagles Remaster)" - 192k, MQB, purple dot.

If I reduce volume slightly, then the MQA flags go out, which is as expected, since reducing volume slightly destroys bit-perfect. So this suggests that the Android Tidal app is managing to get bit-perfect out of an Android phone, despite the nastiness of Android's handling of digital audio. Until now, I thought it was only UAPP that could circumvent Android's trashing of bit-perfect audio.

BUT Natalie Merchant's "I May Know the Word", doesn't light any MQA lamps on the S2D, via the LGG6. And yet when I play the same track from the Tidal Windows program, it lights "MQA" and blue dot. Some of my playlisted MQA tracks illuminate the MQA flags (ie MQB and purple dot), and some do not. Even though they all show MQA correctly via Windows. Some of my tracks show purple dot and 48k (on the S2D DAC), then one second into the track switch to 192k.

I believe that "MQB" and purple dot on the Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital refers to the source doing 1x unfolding. But I wonder how the S2D knows that there's some-but-not-all MQA unfolding going on?

(As expected, the S2D never shows green or blue dot and "MQA" on any tracks from the Tidal app on my LGG6.)

 

[BobSmith8901]

I'm getting some good results playing Tidal from the Tidal app on my Android LG G6 via USB C into my Pro-Ject "Pre Box S2 Digital" DAC:

Playing Coldplay's "Politik", the S2D reports 192k and displays "MQB" with a purple dot (not blue or green)
Same when playing "Wasted Time (2013 Eagles Remaster)" - 192k, MQB, purple dot.

If I reduce volume slightly, then the MQA flags go out, which is as expected, since reducing volume slightly destroys bit-perfect. So this suggests that the Android Tidal app is managing to get bit-perfect out of an Android phone, despite the nastiness of Android's handling of digital audio. Until now, I thought it was only UAPP that could circumvent Android's trashing of bit-perfect audio.

BUT Natalie Merchant's "I May Know the Word", doesn't light any MQA lamps on the S2D, via the LGG6. And yet when I play the same track from the Tidal Windows program, it lights "MQA" and blue dot. Some of my playlisted MQA tracks illuminate the MQA flags (ie MQB and purple dot), and some do not. Even though they all show MQA correctly via Windows. Some of my tracks show purple dot and 48k (on the S2D DAC), then one second into the track switch to 192k.

I believe that "MQB" and purple dot on the Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital refers to the source doing 1x unfolding. But I wonder how the S2D knows that there's some-but-not-all MQA unfolding going on?

(As expected, the S2D never shows green or blue dot and "MQA" on any tracks from the Tidal app on my LGG6.)

Interesting. Now I'm tempted to reinstall the 2.11 Tidal app on my X5III and run it thru both my Meridian Explorer2 and iDSD Nano BL and see what happens with each. I guess I never seriously considered that the updated Tidal Android app might work (maybe sorta normally or in some weird unpredictable way) with USB out.

 

[revand]

If you are getting Hi-Fi instead of Master, it possibly that it plays file on your cache or if you have downloaded it before. Just reset the cache and remove previous download I think.



Thank you for the very useful info.
You are quite right!
At My Collection screen in Settings I went Clear Cashed Content and made it, and I initiated a Restore Offline Content.
After that each TIDAL Masters albums and songs were played as Master.
The good news that even on phones (like MI8) don't have a 3.5 mm jack output, with the supplied USB C - jack adapter the TIDAL app's sound can be heard in my headphones.
I do hope TIDAL will also inform the subscribers about these actions to be taken before the normal use of the new MQA core decode.
On my XIAOMI MI8 phone the sound quality is good but not exceptional.
However if I think that on an airplane from now on I can listen a Masters album from my phone, which I cannot do with using UAPP using AQ DRF Red, since TIDAL does not allow UAPP the offline download, that is not bad at all.
With my Vorzüge VorZAMP Pure II+ portable headphone amp the sound of the TIDAL application in Master mode coming from my Mi8 phone is quite acceptable
I am going to try the SQ from Fiio BTR3 sending music from TIDAL app by Bluetooth LDAC codec. I do think the SQ will be better now.
Previously I exclusively used UAPP, since the SQ was much better than with TIDAL app.