[bigshot]

Oh, vinyl is certainly capable of high fidelity, but transparency means that it sounds exactly the same as the original, and vinyl can't quite pull that off.

 

[Glmoneydawg]

Oh, vinyl is certainly capable of high fidelity, but transparency means that it sounds exactly the same as the original, and vinyl can't quite pull that off.

Close enough for me....i find inconsistent remastering on both formats more of an issue...sigh...how did we end up here again?:/

 

[bigshot]

Close enough is fine. Wanna buy some LPs? I got a ton of them.

 

[Glmoneydawg]

Close enough is fine. Wanna buy some LPs? I got a ton of them.

lol...i already have some thanks...most inconvenient format ever.

 

[bfreedma]

lol...i already have some thanks...most inconvenient format ever.

I'd argue that the 8 track tape was even more inconvenient. At least with vinyl, I can move the needle to the specific song I want to hear. And with the constant reversals, the tapes didn't last very long.

My "proof" is that we aren't seeing a small revival of the 8 track format

 

[castleofargh]

Agreed...but unlike digital there is room for improvement and better gear and setup do make real improvements.I still do about 25% of my listening on vinyl and don't think i'm suffering when i switch back and forth.I have great recordings and poor ones on both formats.Far from transparent seems a little harsh as opposed to not transparent.

I agree with @71 dB. audibly transparent means that you wouldn't be able to tell it apart from the reference. if noise alone somehow doesn't seal the deal, then crosstalk is very likely to do so. and if that doesn't, then the distortions are likely to give the vinyl away. all of it audibly so and usually all at the once.
what you're using as reference is your idea of how it should sound, which is understandable as you do not know how the sound is supposed to be. most likely you don't actually have a reference. you weren't in the studio when the final master was made. all you can say is if you notice weird stuff, and if you don't, you assume you're getting transparency. but how can you really tell without a known reliable reference?

notice how this has absolutely nothing to do with you're enjoyment of the sound.

 

[bigshot]

I'd argue that the 8 track tape was even more inconvenient.

I had 8 tracks... still have a Wollensack deck around here somewhere. It was primarily a thing for car stereos. The advantage to 8 track was that you could do quadraphonic, it ran at 3 3/4 instead of 1 7/8 like cassettes, and you could skip to four points in the album. Cassettes couldn't do that. The disadvantage was because the tape was in an endless loop, it would sometimes jam and the player would eat the tape. Also, the four splice points rarely lined up with the song breaks on the album. I once heard a car stereo that did 8 track quadraphonic and it sounded incredible. I don't know why they don't have multichannel car systems today.

 

[bfreedma]

I had 8 tracks... still have a Wollensack deck around here somewhere. It was primarily a thing for car stereos. The advantage to 8 track was that you could do quadraphonic, it ran at 3 3/4 instead of 1 7/8 like cassettes, and you could skip to four points in the album. Cassettes couldn't do that. The disadvantage was because the tape was in an endless loop, it would sometimes jam and the player would eat the tape. Also, the four splice points rarely lined up with the song breaks on the album. I once heard a car stereo that did 8 track quadraphonic and it sounded incredible. I don't know why they don't have multichannel car systems today.

FWIW, Acura offers 5.1 as a factory option. But you’re right, I don’t know why is isn’t more ubiquitous.

I used to have a small collection of 8 track tapes. Long since replaced with CDs.

 

[Glmoneydawg]

I agree with @71 dB. audibly transparent means that you wouldn't be able to tell it apart from the reference. if noise alone somehow doesn't seal the deal, then crosstalk is very likely to do so. and if that doesn't, then the distortions are likely to give the vinyl away. all of it audibly so and usually all at the once.
what you're using as reference is your idea of how it should sound, which is understandable as you do not know how the sound is supposed to be. most likely you don't actually have a reference. you weren't in the studio when the final master was made. all you can say is if you notice weird stuff, and if you don't, you assume you're getting transparency. but how can you really tell without a known reliable reference?

notice how this has absolutely nothing to do with you're enjoyment of the sound.

Cd copies of albums would be a reasonable reference right?Some of my records i have replaced with cd copies...some i can't replace because the cd copy is inferior...not a lot of them but enough of them for me to keep a decent analog setup on my rack....and apparently Bigshot has an 8track player so....

 

[Glmoneydawg]

I had 8 tracks... still have a Wollensack deck around here somewhere. It was primarily a thing for car stereos. The advantage to 8 track was that you could do quadraphonic, it ran at 3 3/4 instead of 1 7/8 like cassettes, and you could skip to four points in the album. Cassettes couldn't do that. The disadvantage was because the tape was in an endless loop, it would sometimes jam and the player would eat the tape. Also, the four splice points rarely lined up with the song breaks on the album. I once heard a car stereo that did 8 track quadraphonic and it sounded incredible. I don't know why they don't have multichannel car systems today.

Another advantage of 8track was they where hard to lose....being the size of a paperback novel

 

[bigshot]

Cd copies of albums would be a reasonable reference right

Sure. We’re talking about the format itself, not specific albums. CDs are audibly transparent. LPs aren’t.

 

[old tech]

Another advantage of 8track was they where hard to lose....being the size of a paperback novel

Yes but the tape would often get chewed up.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Vinyl has rumble, surface noise and pretty high distortion in the center grooves. Think about the geometry of an LP record... at the outer edge, there is much more groove per revolution than at the center groove. But one revolution is still the same amount of time. This means that the first song on a side has more groove to define it than the last song. If you play an LP, you can hear the surface noise, rumble, and distortion. It isn't transparent.

If you have rumble,surface noise and distortion at levels that are a problem ...you may find it interesting to listen to a modern(and yes maybe a little pricey)analog setup.....or maybe not

Also there is no way to fully stop the ground hum from the vinyl preamp. No matter how much you spend there is no way to keep the ground hum out. Still improved modern turntables are many times better than you could buy in the 1970s. Most of the time you will read negative talk about vinyl by someone who has not listened to a vinyl set-up in 30 years, though they are highly opinionated against it.

It may not measure well, and it takes a week for the brain to mentally filter out the pops and clicks. I’ve been trying to filter out my Wife when she pops and clicks.........for 20 years, with no success.

 

[Glmoneydawg]

Also there is no way to fully stop the ground hum from the vinyl preamp. No matter how much you spend there is no way to keep the ground hum out. Still improved modern turntables are many times better than you could buy in the 1970s. Most of the time you will read negative talk about vinyl by someone who has not listened to a vinyl set-up in 30 years, though they are highly opinionated against it.

It may not measure well, and it takes a week for the brain to mentally filter out the pops and clicks. I’ve been trying to filter out my Wife when she pops and clicks.........for 20 years, with no success.

If you have a hum problem...and you have a decent phono amp....try moving your power cables away from your phono cables..the 1 situation where better insulated cables are usefull.

 

[Glmoneydawg]

Yes but the tape would often get chewed up.

Yep....and there is a lot of tape in there.