[kothganesh]

  okay I didn't mean to be a jerk I got carried away. we mostly do agree. i just got the idea he was saying his opinion is the only one that counts. i guess that is not what he said. i just hope anyone would get whatever they want and not feel pressure by others. this is probably unfounded on my part and i apologize. honestly this is like ford vs. chevy. me personally i always told people which ever you prefer and don't be ashamed with that choice. i probably took purrin the wrong way. of course you know the truth is i have a personal agenda here. i do feel insulted myself but that is my own problem. i mean, how i am i so much enjoying a pos? i have to question myself there. of course mine is not exactly what he had heard either. i have my own pos list but in fear of being ousted i keep it to myself. interestingly my pos list is many times revered here. so i guess we just all hear differently. that is fine. anyways i apologize for thinking out loud. 

In the interests of a good exchange of ideas, the ideal thing to do is to limit oneself to the "technical" aspects on this forum. If you want to vent, the PM route is always available (but in no way do I want to give the impression that you should clog that route with "hate" mails 

). I have myself learned a thing or two from these exchanges but the concern is that the thread itself will be locked out and that's just a shame. 

 

[music_man]

I said I was sorry. I was not even mad. I was just pointing out there are differences of opinions. that all. let's just forget it. I am sorry purrin. I hope I did not make you steaming mad.

 

[Argo Duck]

^ All good then.

You're right, we all hear differently.

Speaking purely for me I'm pretty sure I don't hear the same as purrin, but (again, this is just me) I appreciate his and his associates' irreverent and questioning attitude. In particular, they've developed an interesting and quite well-defined vocabulary and ratings which - together with certain others here and elsewhere - have caused me to listen for things I might not have otherwise. Whether or not I 'hear' the same things as they, it's definitely helped me hear more than before.

 

[arnaud]

I said I was sorry. I was not even mad. I was just pointing out there are differences of opinions. that all. let's just forget it. I am sorry purrin. I hope I did not make you steaming mad.

I don't think you need to apologize to anyone, it's a natural reaction. At the end of the day, we are not our gear and mostly splitting hairs in 4 during these heated debates so best is to take a chill pill, sleep on it.
As for purrin, I would guess he is rather excited that this caused some reaction / discussion than mad at you in the least...

 

[Stapsy]

No offense but...
 
I don't understand all this confusion (consistent throughout the entire thread not just on the last couple pages).  Nobody is making any claims to have all the answers here.  The first post states how personal DAC preferences are. This is a thread for Purrin&Co to give an opinion on DACs and rank them in order of preference.  I fail to see the absolute's.  Anybody who comes on here and takes it as truth needs to learn how to think for themselves. 
 
This forum is almost entirely based on people's opinion's.  Why do we always need to waste time with "IMO" whenever something is said that might offend another person's tastes?  If you need people to pat you on the back and tell you how awesome you are go post in one of the fanboy threads.
 
 
While I think that Purrin does a good job of describing his opinion of gear in an objective way, nobody is forced to take that as gospel.  The whole point of a forum should be discussion.  Nobody is going to get yelled at if they post dissenting opinions here in a well thought out and respectful way. 
 
I would love to see more discussion from people who don't agree.  There has already been talk from former Gungnir owner's who didn't like the Gungnir in their setups.  The same punchy and dynamic sound that Purrin loves in his review was a source of annoyance for other owners.  Perfect example of disagreement and discussion leading to some valuable insight for potential buyers.
 
 
All the above is IMO, YMMV, IWDIWPYOYBABYAA

 

[music_man]

I know this. I am totally cool with it personally. I am a big boy really. I was feeling there are some other people that may not understand and be insulted. really it was not my job to protect those people in fact. for some odd reason I felt I had to take it upon myself to do so. what I did was quite frankly stupid and I wish for it to be forgotten. it should be, as I did not actually say anything rude afaik. I was just pointing out for others not in the know perhaps that this is not written in stone. I hate to see some kid not try something because they read something bad about it. I was wrong in doing so. so I kind fully retract all statements to that effect. this thread sits completely fine with me personally in fact. I really don't know what came over me in the middle of last night. can we just please forget it?

 

[john57]

  I borrowed and 851D from my local hifi shop. Resolution of detail was very good, but the lack of oomph in dynamics was a deal breaker. Can't believe that wasn't mentioned in any of the reviews I read about it.  I remember describing the bass as "dry"  to my sales guy.

I had a balanced DAC that did not reproduce fully the dynamic range of the music. It sounded a bit compressed and weak. The left channel gave out a year latter. 

 

[purrin]

  i mean, how i am i so much enjoying a pos? 

 
I don't care if you took it the wrong way (and BTW, my post was not even directed at you). I will just be blunt and call you out on a few things.
 
Your Teac UD-501 is modded. I think you mentioned you are running a power conditioner, converting PCM to DSD in realtime, etc. Really man, you keep bringing up the Teac UD-501 as the bee-knees able to compete with some really great DACs I've heard. Except that yours is modded and you are running it under special conditions which most people do not do. That's fine if you state your disagreement with me once, twice, three times. But you keep on it over and over. Isn't there a UD-501 appreciation thread somewhere?
 
Where you able to do a direct shootout of the Teac UD-501 with several other DACs at the same time with a small committee of other listeners? At least you can see the pictures I posted where we've stacked up a bunch of DACs for direct comparison. And also keep in mind I've probably heard x3-4 the number of DACs / CD- Players in this list. The only reason they are not formally included is because I have never had a chance for a direct comparison to at least several other DACs in the list. And even then, I still have my own doubts on the rankings.
 
You mention your modded Teac UD-501 is good as the MSB Diamond. Under what conditions? Your house, dealer showroom, audio shows? What equipment was used? Headphones, speakers, amps, etc. How is it as good? Where is it better? What qualities is it worse? What do you consider the strengths of the MSD Diamond? How is your modded Teac better than the stock? Please elaborate on specific sonic qualities. In my experience, no two DACs sound exactly the same. Even the two DACs which I felt sounded spookingly closest to either other, the PWD2.02/OR5 and the Berkeley Alpha2/BADA-USB had differences. Maybe it's possible that for you, with your setups, there's isn't a big difference.
 
The difference between you and me (despite our personal preferences), is that I try to state why (at least in a few sentences of specifics) I feel a DAC is good or is bad. This allows the reader to understand where I am coming from and where my preferences lie. Also, you will never see me go around stating the AGD M7 or PWD2 as the absolute bees-knees to everyone. I know people who don't like certain qualities of the M7, and I know people who really dislike the PWD2. And I know the reasons why. I don't go around to threads where people dislike the PWD2 and keep on it to convince them that it's good.
 
Take another example: the Gungnir vs. X-Sabre. Although I prefer the Gungnir, I have actually lead people who have PM'd me in the direction of the X-Sabre based on a little Q&A with them concerning their gear, what liked before, what they didn't like, what their preferences were. I've advised people against the PWD2, against the M7, etc. in favor other other DACs I did not prefer as much.
 
I don't know if you have noticed the disagreements on the Gungnir with Maxvla, olor1n, Soup, etc. We totally disagree about the Gungnir, but it does seem we are hearing some of the same things. It's just that we react differently to the sonic attributes of the Gungnir. Its these things of discussions (including amp pairings, headphone pairings, USB upgrade board, etc.), breaking things down, which are most helpful to other HF'ers. In the end, I've tried to make sure that people who have gone out to purchase the Gungnir will actually liked it (assuming they have contacted me and asked me for more specifics.)
 
I can respect that you like the Teac UD-501 because you have tried out lots of other DACs. In that sense, you seem to the exception of most people who really really love the Teac UD-501. But one thing in general with the I've noticed with the Teac UD-501 adherents is that they haven't heard (nor even listened to) much else. In that sense, the Teac is probably a great DAC if one comes from an iPhone (brittle and bright) or a crappy cheap portable DAC. Maybe this is why the 20 people who PM'd you are afraid to speak out. They lack experience to walk the talk.
 
That's fine if people like the UD-501, but if you haven't figured it out by now, all I want people to do is to consider the other DACs on this list before heading straight to the Teac UD-501. It very well could be that they like the UD-501 in the end.
 
I will again re-iterate why I don't like the STOCK UNMODDED Teac UD-501.
 

• Unrefined staticky jumpy quality. Lacks a certain calmness and grace. Rough. Hard to describe. Sounds cheap, like the AUDINST HUD-MX-2. Doesn't have the control and grace of most desktop amps.
• Lean tonal balance. One the leaner sounding DACs.
• Rather poor at resolving low level information. What detail is presents is on the macro level. In fact, there seems to be a tendency to accentuate the macro-details.

​
To me, sonic qualities of the Teac UD-501 are simply unforgivable. This lack of "refinement" mentioned as #1 for a desktop DAC is a disgrace. It is truly a piece of ****. Of course my perception of #1 and #3 above would easily be perceived as inviting, engaging, or lively to others.

 

[BournePerfect]

Don't feel bad musicman-Marv had to come up with a new class for my extra special Eximus DP-1, because he didn't want to offend me.

 But at least it's not a pos lol. Btw I likme the DP1 way more than the Master 7-mainly because it has a more holographic, intimate presentation. In comparison, the M7 has a flat, super-wide soundstage, that essentially doesn't gel with the types of music I listen to.
 
-Daniel

 

[brunk]

I also agree with Purrin, that Teac really is a POS, just really harsh and unrefined. I had it for about 2 weeks doing A/B with the Yulong D18 and it didn't rival the D18 in any area, except features.

 

[Tuco1965]

What ever happened to the chocolate ice cream?  

 

[music_man]

again, purrin I apologize for being a jerk. last night I just thought out loud. I actually agree with you more than disagree. i realize i am probably giving people a false notion. so really i should be called out i guess. like you say it is highly modded and running under certain circumstances. even with custom written asio drivers. it was not so bad stock to me. this is because if something i also did not state. the system it is in is high end but the setup is not so revealing. downstairs the msb will slaughter it at pcm. i said that. dsd is not an r2r dac's strong suit. so i guess again you can call me out for comparing apples and oranges. here it sounds very god to me. i should let it be known that this is not what most people are going to get. however for someone coming from a sound blaster i do think it is an upgrade. i know, that is not saying much. i am not eating my words, just agreeing i did not tell the whole story. i did state all this but i made it appear as if this was what everyone was going to get. to be honest i listened to it stock for like 2 hours anyways. there was obviously a reason i felt the need to tweak the heck out of it. another thing i did not mention just to be honest here. my cables and vibration isolation cost 50x the price of this little thing. i guess you got me. i will agree one may be better off to just go buy a better dac. it remains it is still a big upgrade for a lot of people. in this particular very unique setup i am very pleased. i can get adifferent sound but right now i am settled on this. again, this is probably not what anyone else can expect. i don't even recommend modding it unless you are either an engineer or prepared to lose $849. there is more to it that here anyways. who puts odin on a $849 dac besides me? probably no one. so truthfully purrin is mostly correct. i am sorry purrin. i do commend you for being honest. since i was not exactly.
 
as for the msb. used properly it will hands down smoke even my teac. downstairs there is no comparison. in my bedroom it is not so obvious.
 
now, i am going to test dcs and light harmonic. i want to be sure the investment in the msb was right. in a dedicated listening room. not a bedroom full of carpet,drapes and furniture. on that note these types of dacs are not for everyone either. i think to a lot of people there is not going to be a huge difference. not them. their room and equipment.
 
oh, one last thing. the teac was always connected to a preamp with xlr's then to an amp and speakers. i will say you can get a much beter headphone amp. which i left untouched and am not using. to think that is what this very forum is regarding. so yeah, sorry for being misleading. i did say all this but i think it may not have come across that way. my apologies to everyone here.
 
i hope we can move on now. i made a mistake and i hope i have rectified it in everyone's eyes.

 

[magiccabbage]

   
I don't care if you took it the wrong way (and BTW, my post was not even directed at you). I will just be blunt and call you out on a few things.
 
Your Teac UD-501 is modded. I think you mentioned you are running a power conditioner, converting PCM to DSD in realtime, etc. Really man, you keep bringing up the Teac UD-501 as the bee-knees able to compete with some really great DACs I've heard. Except that yours is modded and you are running it under special conditions which most people do not do. That's fine if you state your disagreement with me once, twice, three times. But you keep on it over and over. Isn't there a UD-501 appreciation thread somewhere?
 
Where you able to do a direct shootout of the Teac UD-501 with several other DACs at the same time with a small committee of other listeners? At least you can see the pictures I posted where we've stacked up a bunch of DACs for direct comparison. And also keep in mind I've probably heard x3-4 the number of DACs / CD- Players in this list. The only reason they are not formally included is because I have never had a chance for a direct comparison to at least several other DACs in the list. And even then, I still have my own doubts on the rankings.
 
You mention your modded Teac UD-501 is good as the MSB Diamond. Under what conditions? Your house, dealer showroom, audio shows? What equipment was used? Headphones, speakers, amps, etc. How is it as good? Where is it better? What qualities is it worse? What do you consider the strengths of the MSD Diamond? How is your modded Teac better than the stock? Please elaborate on specific sonic qualities. In my experience, no two DACs sound exactly the same. Even the two DACs which I felt sounded spookingly closest to either other, the PWD2.02/OR5 and the Berkeley Alpha2/BADA-USB had differences. Maybe it's possible that for you, with your setups, there's isn't a big difference.
 
The difference between you and me (despite our personal preferences), is that I try to state why (at least in a few sentences of specifics) I feel a DAC is good or is bad. This allows the reader to understand where I am coming from and where my preferences lie. Also, you will never see me go around stating the AGD M7 or PWD2 as the absolute bees-knees to everyone. I know people who don't like certain qualities of the M7, and I know people who really dislike the PWD2. And I know the reasons why. I don't go around to threads where people dislike the PWD2 and keep on it to convince them that it's good.
 
Take another example: the Gungnir vs. X-Sabre. Although I prefer the Gungnir, I have actually lead people who have PM'd me in the direction of the X-Sabre based on a little Q&A with them concerning their gear, what liked before, what they didn't like, what their preferences were. I've advised people against the PWD2, against the M7, etc. in favor other other DACs I did not prefer as much.
 
I don't know if you have noticed the disagreements on the Gungnir with Maxvla, olor1n, Soup, etc. We totally disagree about the Gungnir, but it does seem we are hearing some of the same things. It's just that we react differently to the sonic attributes of the Gungnir. Its these things of discussions (including amp pairings, headphone pairings, USB upgrade board, etc.), breaking things down, which are most helpful to other HF'ers. In the end, I've tried to make sure that people who have gone out to purchase the Gungnir will actually liked it (assuming they have contacted me and asked me for more specifics.)
 
I can respect that you like the Teac UD-501 because you have tried out lots of other DACs. In that sense, you seem to the exception of most people who really really love the Teac UD-501. But one thing in general with the I've noticed with the Teac UD-501 adherents is that they haven't heard (nor even listened to) much else. In that sense, the Teac is probably a great DAC if one comes from an iPhone (brittle and bright) or a crappy cheap portable DAC. Maybe this is why the 20 people who PM'd you are afraid to speak out. They lack experience to walk the talk.
 
That's fine if people like the UD-501, but if you haven't figured it out by now, all I want people to do is to consider the other DACs on this list before heading straight to the Teac UD-501. It very well could be that they like the UD-501 in the end.
 
I will again re-iterate why I don't like the STOCK UNMODDED Teac UD-501.
 

• Unrefined staticky jumpy quality. Lacks a certain calmness and grace. Rough. Hard to describe. Sounds cheap, like the AUDINST HUD-MX-2. Doesn't have the control and grace of most desktop amps.
• Lean tonal balance. One the leaner sounding DACs.
• Rather poor at resolving low level information. What detail is presents is on the macro level. In fact, there seems to be a tendency to accentuate the macro-details.

​
To me, sonic qualities of the Teac UD-501 are simply unforgivable. This lack of "refinement" mentioned as #1 for a desktop DAC is a disgrace. It is truly a piece of ****. Of course my perception of #1 and #3 above would easily be perceived as inviting, engaging, or lively to others.

 

[Radio_head]

Teac UD-501 - Against the Grain
 
I was one of those voices that was scared of speaking out (though I didn't personally PM him), but it seems with the browbeating music_man is receiving, my silence is no longer warranted.
 
When I first heard about the UD-501, I was skeptical.  Could good sound, let alone good DSD, be wrung out of such a cheap unit?  Well, besides for all the positive impressions on the forums, what pushed me over the edge was finding out Teac also runs Esoteric.  Esoteric makes the famous K-01, which some users have trumpeted as "better than my ipod" in their high end rigs (with BHSE's and Stax 009's.)  Surely Teac could take some of that magic and, if they couldn't produce a quarter from behind my ear, I'd still be happy with a nickel.
 
The other thing that I loved about the Teac was how cutting edge it was.  DSD is like the Blu Ray to PCM's Betamax.  I wanted to ride the new wave with something even better than my vaunted Mytek DAC.  Well, that DAC is here, and it is the Teac.
 
The 501 has been in house now for some time being put through its paces.  As suggested by some users, it has been playing Pink on a loop for a few hundred hours.  Now, the question, were pot-stirrer Purrin's claims justified?
 

• Unrefined staticky jumpy quality. Lacks a certain calmness and grace. Rough. Hard to describe. Sounds cheap, like the AUDINST HUD-MX-2. Doesn't have the control and grace of most desktop amps. 
  I noticed no staticky quality.  There was no lack of grace or roughness. 
• Lean tonal balance. One the leaner sounding DACs.
  Tonal balance was not lean to me.
• Rather poor at resolving low level information. What detail is presents is on the macro level. In fact, there seems to be a tendency to accentuate the macro-details.
  I did not notice accentuated micro-details.  

​
For those who will question my rig, I ran the Teac in the exact same configuration as Mike Moffatt, celebrated Thetan and current DAC Designer for Schiit.  I think he knows a thing or two about audio.  
 
This is, as usual, a product assassination by a small cabal of audiophiles who have nothing better to do than tell us the chocolate ice cream in our cones is actually excrement.  

 

[wink]

I like pistachio gelato. much betterer than chokky ice cream. Chokky ice-cream is for plebs.
 
I have no experience with Teac DACses.