Thoughts on a bunch of DACs (and why delta-sigma kinda sucks, just to get you to think about stuff)
Sep 14, 2014 at 3:32 PM Post #1,456 of 6,500
  Hi Purrin, as one of the few people who has compared a lot of the high end gear.
 
What would you recommend with the Abyss, LCD-3, hd-800 as an amp: The GS-X DACT or EC 4-45?. I listed to almost every genre. But I like clean strong bass, rolled off treble and warm highs.
 
Also DAC choice for either of these up to 5k?
 
Thanks for replying if you get a chance.

 
Two amps in the running if you are looking something which will work well with LCD-3, Abyss, and HD800. I own Abyss and HD800, but sold LCD-3 a while back (not necessarily because I didn't like it). Those two current production amps are the EC 4-45 and Schiit Ragnorak. That being said, there are many other amps which should also be considered if you want to focus on one particular headphone, or one type of headphone.
 
The 4-45 is actually a wee bit insignificantly brighter than the Ragnarok. The Ragnarok is mid focused if even anything could be said about it. The Rag has the smoothest more liquid sound, especially in the treble, lack of grain, that I have ever heard in an amp regardless of tube or solid state. Amps like the Leben are also smooth, but that amp is overly warm, syrupy, and distorted, therefore not considered. Both the Rag or 4-45 do lend themselves to the tonal balance of the LCD-3 and Abyss quite well. With the HD800, I prefer the use with some sort of Anax mod (just the liner without the foam). It's just the nature of the HD800 and that those amps aren't necessarily what I would call dark or warm. But that does not mean they are analytical, antiseptic, or lean, which I do not like. Both Rag and 4-45 have a subdued bass, which slams hard when it's called for. I would not say that the treble is rolled off on either amp, but I would say that the treble is not unnaturally harsh, edgy, etched, etc. which I find the GS-X2 to be (GS-X is lean in comparison, it also does not resolve as well).
 
The bass is cleaner on the Rag. The resolution and microdynamics is better on the 4-45. Overall articulation is better on the Rag - incredibly clean transients. I prefer the HD800 with the 4-45. The 4-45 is more capable of reproducing the low level information which only the HD800 is capable of reproducing. I prefer the Abyss on the Rag. The Abyss is slightly less resolving, so a super high resolving amp isn't necessary. (I still consider the Rag the most resolving SS amp I've heard.) However the extra power and control of the Rag grabs the Abyss by the balls. The LCD-3, I no longer have, but it would be an educated guess that it would be somewhere in between. I know the Audeze guys have borrowed EC's amps for some shows here and there; and Audezes are known to have synergies with the Schiit Stack (Mojo+Gung).
 
So basically consider Rag vs. 4-45. Those are two amps which I consider equivalent, but different. Those are the two amps I consider the best in terms of the flexibility that you require in terms of powering low impedance orthos and high impedance dynamics.
 
DACs are a personal thing. The setup I use (Schiit Wyrd --> Empirical Audio Off Ramp 5 (with only i2s regulator upgrade) --i2s--> Audio-GD Master 7) is rather convoluted, but it gets results; otherwise I would have gone for a $10K DAC. But I'm cheap if it does the job.
 
Since this a DAC thread, I cannot guarantee the above results if a DAC used does not have smooth treble characteristics or is not sufficiently resolving. DAC is crucial at this stage in the game.
 
Sep 14, 2014 at 3:49 PM Post #1,457 of 6,500
  Can someone please explain me, why all of these fancy DACs I see in high end audio shops get never mentioned in this forum? Are these just expensive and not the real deal, or are the needs for headphone listenings less high then these for speaker listening? 
 
Thanks

 
It depends on the hifi shops.  One hifi shop around where I used to live only carried certain lines: Cambridge Audio, Bryston, Classe, and Devialet. Carrying certain lines isn't uncommon at all for hifi shops. Some of the DACs mentioned and discussed are commonly seen at the hifi shows nearby and have been written about the magazines: MSB, Vega, Bricasti M1, Cantata, Berkeley, M51, PSA DSD, Invicta, Emprical Audio, Mytek, Teac, etc. It also could be a distributor network / geography / sphere of influence thing. There are a lot of DAC manufacturers out there; it's entirely possible that I am going to miss the four or five fancy DACs which happen to be carried by your local hifi shop.
 
Also, and to answer someone else's question, I consider the $2000-$5000 range of DACs to be sort of a no-mans land. Lots of overpriced / under-performing gear, probably as a result too much emphasis on home theater. Two channel audio (speaker or headphone) is a small niche.
 
Sep 14, 2014 at 6:22 PM Post #1,459 of 6,500

So basically consider Rag vs. 4-45. Those are two amps which I consider equivalent, but different. Those are the two amps I consider the best in terms of the flexibility that you require in terms of powering low impedance orthos and high impedance dynamics.
 
 

 
Thank you Purrin, I will be sure to audition the Rag as soon as I can!
 
As far as Dacs go I'll wait for the Ygg release before buying anything as it will probably be up there.
 
Sep 14, 2014 at 10:40 PM Post #1,460 of 6,500
Purrin,
 
Just out of curiosity, have you heard the Da Vinci Dac? What do you think about it, if you've heard it?
 
Sep 15, 2014 at 7:51 AM Post #1,461 of 6,500
   
 
RECOMMENDED FOR PEOPLE WHO POST THEIR MARRIAGE PROPOSALS ON FACEBOOK
 

 
 
HA HA HA HA HA ... L.O.L.  I died laughing to that !
 
Sep 15, 2014 at 12:05 PM Post #1,464 of 6,500
Hugo comparison to Geek Wave. (I have not heard the Wave): http://www.head-fi.org/t/713829/light-harmonic-geek-wave/660#post_10871785.
 
BTW a few updates to page one. Ranked most of the newer DACs after some discussion with the ninjas. Note AGD M7 USB firmware update makes M7 with stock USB (without fancy converter) now highly worth considering.
 
Sep 16, 2014 at 4:44 AM Post #1,466 of 6,500
I'm in a search for new DAC for HeadAmp KGSS -> Stax 404LE, now I can buy used Lavry DA11, NAD M51 or Metrum Octave for practically the same price, which one is better for rock and metal music (more dynamic, better PRaT, overall balance)?
 
Sep 16, 2014 at 11:01 AM Post #1,467 of 6,500
Apologies to be a bother guys, but would like to hear some (more in depth?) thoughts - If I could get the Gungnir USB Gen2 and a second hand Lavry DA11 for about the same price, which one would be the overall better choice?
The genre I listen to varies quite a bit (piano, vocals, electronic/ambiance, pop, instrumental), but I am in particular pretty fond of female vocals - Would that indicate the Gungnir could be a better choice for me?

Thanks.
 
Sep 16, 2014 at 11:22 AM Post #1,468 of 6,500
If you are using USB and not afraid of hard hitting dynamics, get the Gungnir. The DA11 does have a nice stereo width setting for headphone use, so that may be a consideration. Both DACs are on the smoother sounding side without the digital hash. The Gungnir is a little sweeter sounding with vocals.
 
Sep 17, 2014 at 12:06 AM Post #1,470 of 6,500
If you are using USB and not afraid of hard hitting dynamics, get the Gungnir. The DA11 does have a nice stereo width setting for headphone use, so that may be a consideration. Both DACs are on the smoother sounding side without the digital hash. The Gungnir is a little sweeter sounding with vocals.


purrin, thanks for taking the time to reply to me. Much appreciated.
Dynamics in relation to the contrast between the quietest and loudest passage in music? I do not mind if the recording calls for it.

I build my headphone setup to help me deal with sleep/rest (having depression/severe anxiety is no fun) - Understand YMMV, but from your experience does the Gungnir presents itself in a fashion which "keeps you awake the whole night"?

Many thanks again, purrin. If only I could audition the Gungnir to get a good idea of the dynamics being mentioned. Sweet sounding vocals would be great for a vast majority of recordings though.
 

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