[Welly Wu]

Microsoft rules. Linux sucks. End of story.
 
Quoted for truth.

 

[Brooko]

 
Quote:

 

I am curious as to what others think about this topic at hand. The purpose of my discussion is not to engender vitriolic replies and I am not here to rekindle war either.  

Quote:

Microsoft rules. Linux sucks. End of story.
 
Quoted for truth.

 
 
First one - your original post.  Second one .......
 
Troll much?

 

[bcasey25raptor]

i have come to the conclusion that yes linux is to much i will be going back to windows because to many things just don't work in ubuntu. for example further investigation showed my audio jack didn't work and only my on board speakers did. i am not satisfied with on board audio and i must be able to use my headphones so i will stick with windows as it just works.but i have to admit the effects were amazing.

 

[Brooko]

@ Shike
 
Like I said in my earlier post - use the best tool for the job.  For some people that will be Win7.  For others it might be Linux.  It's the beauty of choice.
 
Re your points - just suggestions:

• Flash - personally I've had no issues with it.  I agree though, the adobe support is worse for Linux than Windows - but at least there is support.  An alternative option is to use Google's Chrome browser.  It comes with flash integrated and is much easier to handle.  As Google releases updates to Chrome - they automatically keep their flash version updated as well.  And it's pretty easy as it updates through your package manager.
• OOo vs MS Office.  No argument there.  For a professional there is really only one choice in an MS dominated business world.  I think this will change over time though.  The main issue is that OOo uses international open standards.  MS uses a closed one.  There was big debate on this a couple of years ago..  As long as MS has a huge monopoly, this won't change.  Eventually though - I think you'll see OOo become more usable to the business world.  Going to take years though IMO.  For home use or casual use though OOo is fine.
• I actually think driver support is pretty good.  The main difference I find is that if you're doing an actual install from scratch on Windows vs an install from scratch on Linux - most of the time the Linux drivers will be there (in the kernel) without hunting around for them.  Of course this is not true for hardware released in last 6 months a lot of the time - and that's where Windows has the upper hand.  It's not Windows support though - it's the hardware manufacturers that supply the drivers.  I don't agree with you using the term 'legacy' as I've found that Linux has worked with most reasonably modern hardware OOTB.  But again YMMV.  Because I use a Linux system - I build it with supported hardware.  Just take a little more research before the build.  Agree with your assessment though.
• Re forum support - all I can say is that what you're seeing is not typical of the linux support I've seen.  Most of the time I see support that is helpful, non-condescending, and designed to teach.  My suggestion would be to try a few other fora.  Three that spring to mind are Mint, PCLinuxOS, and MEPIS.  You will get you idiots in any forum - but those three are definitely pretty helpful.
• Apps - again YMMV.  Agree with Gimp and CAD.  Over time though I think that this support will improve.  Especially as adoption grows.  Personally I use Paint Shop Pro (via Wine) - because I know the program.  I am running Foobar with Wine as well - just started.  Seems to work great.  Not sure about using it with a DAC yet - I have one ordered - van let you know.  On the flip side - example only ..... I installed Linux on my parents machine a couple of months ago (dual boot just in case).  They are not computer savvy - but they do OK.  They are running Win only software for family tree called Legacy.  He managed to install it himself (automatically installed using Wine) and it runs 100%.  But then I showed him the Linux equivalent "Gramps" which is extensively developed.  Imported his files - all working 100%.  Guess which one they use exclusively now?  Use the best tool for the job.  And everyone will have their own preferences.

 
I do agree on the paper cuts.  It's not for everyone.  Nice to see you gave it a go though.  Will be interesting to see how it progresses as more people adopt it as an alternative.

 

[Shike]

 
Quote:

@ Shike
 
Like I said in my earlier post - use the best tool for the job.  For some people that will be Win7.  For others it might be Linux.  It's the beauty of choice.
 
Re your points - just suggestions:
 
Flash - personally I've had no issues with it.  I agree though, the adobe support is worse for Linux than Windows - but at least there is support.  An alternative option is to use Google's Chrome browser.  It comes with flash integrated and is much easier to handle.  As Google releases updates to Chrome - they automatically keep their flash version updated as well.  And it's pretty easy as it updates through your package manager.
 
I'm mainly talking CPU usage.  On a desktop it may not seem like an issue, but get into HD material and it really starts chuffing.  A netbook will freeze in Linux playing something off Youtube.  There's no good reason for it.  Everyone can point fingers, but till it's fixed it's hard to turn a blind eye to it.
 
I actually think driver support is pretty good.  The main difference I find is that if you're doing an actual install from scratch on Windows vs an install from scratch on Linux - most of the time the Linux drivers will be there (in the kernel) without hunting around for them.  Of course this is not true for hardware released in last 6 months a lot of the time - and that's where Windows has the upper hand.  It's not Windows support though - it's the hardware manufacturers that supply the drivers.  I don't agree with you using the term 'legacy' as I've found that Linux has worked with most reasonably modern hardware OOTB.  But again YMMV.  Because I use a Linux system - I build it with supported hardware.  Just take a little more research before the build.  Agree with your assessment though.
 
I game a lot, so my sound hardware for example will use X-Fi.  Creative's support has traditionally been dismal.  Once again, let's not forget actual performance of hardware.  A graphics card running in Windows tends to run better than inside Linux, and the drivers seem much more mature/stable.  Linux used to, and still does in many cases, thrive because it can run fast on older hardware.  Puppy Linux comes to mind as it was one of its primary design purposes (an entire OS that can fit in 128mb of RAM being as fast as possible).  Let's not forget how many people throw it on old boxes to make FTP servers and the like
 
Re forum support - all I can say is that what you're seeing is not typical of the linux support I've seen.  Most of the time I see support that is helpful, non-condescending, and designed to teach.  My suggestion would be to try a few other fora.  Three that spring to mind are Mint, PCLinuxOS, and MEPIS.  You will get you idiots in any forum - but those three are definitely pretty helpful.
 
It's been two forums this happened at.  I won't try Mint since the developer used it as a political statement in the past.  I've heard of MEPIS, but once again we're looking at Debian with the exact same programs that will most likely crash spectacularly doing the exact same thing I tried to do under Ubuntu (remote desktop to a Windows box mounting the Linux HDD.  Try to copy a file to my Linux box and poof, the Linux HDD is no longer accessible.  A very "What?" moment).
 
Apps - again YMMV.  Agree with Gimp and CAD.  Over time though I think that this support will improve.  Especially as adoption grows.  Personally I use Paint Shop Pro (via Wine) - because I know the program.  I am running Foobar with Wine as well - just started.  Seems to work great.  Not sure about using it with a DAC yet - I have one ordered - van let you know.  On the flip side - example only ..... I installed Linux on my parents machine a couple of months ago (dual boot just in case).  They are not computer savvy - but they do OK.  They are running Win only software for family tree called Legacy.  He managed to install it himself (automatically installed using Wine) and it runs 100%.  But then I showed him the Linux equivalent "Gramps" which is extensively developed.  Imported his files - all working 100%.  Guess which one they use exclusively now?  Use the best tool for the job.  And everyone will have their own preferences.
 
I should have also mentioned the games, that's just another big hole in Linux that needs to be filled.  I agree though, if there's a superior open source alternative then by all means go for it.  Wine is nice and all, but surely there must be some resources or performance sacrifices in the process.  I'm also of the mind-set that if you're going to run a bunch of Windows applications . . . then why the heck don't you just use Windows?  That's me though.
 
I do agree on the paper cuts.  It's not for everyone.  Nice to see you gave it a go though.  Will be interesting to see how it progresses as more people adopt it as an alternative.
 
True.  Still, I wish some projects and applications would move forward a bit more but some just seem like they won't (Looking at OOo)

Responses in bold.

 

[Brooko]

Nice replies.  Agree with you on most points.  I don't really run anything flash intensive on my netbook - either Win OR LIn - so haven't really noticed.  Have to admit on my desktop (Quad, OC with plenty of RAM), I never put much thought into flash on either platform. It's as smooth as butter on both.
 
Totally agree on gaming - and it's the one area I'd love to see get better.  That's why I always support any Lin games that do come out.  The Indie bundles were really good.  But I have to admit I'd be really happy if I could get games like Crysis etc running well under Linux.  Can dream though
 
On the Debian side - just remember that Ubuntu is based on a heavily modified Debian snapshot.  It can be extremely unstable at times.  I sometimes think Canonical spend too much time trying to rush it out the door on time - and not enough time making it completely usable.  Debian itself is miles more stable - even their 'testing' and 'unstable' branches have been pretty good for me.  MEPIS is based on Debian stable - so it's usually pretty good.  Give them a couple of months before trying though - they're in beta testing their latest and unfortunately having some issues.  Warren won't release until it's ready though - and when it is, it'll usually 'just work'.
 
Loved your comment on the 'why don't you just use Windows'     The main reason I don't is that I got sick of the maintenance.  Having to reinstall every 12-18 months when the registry got too bloated and the whole machine started slowing.  Plus the AV, constant reboots for every 2nd software upgrade etc.  I really don't miss it.  I do need it for serious gaming though - so I continue to dual boot.  Works for me - won't work for a lot though.
 
Choice is great isn't it.
 
Nice getting your views Shike.  Thanks

 

[Shike]

 
Quote:

Loved your comment on the 'why don't you just use Windows'     The main reason I don't is that I got sick of the maintenance.  Having to reinstall every 12-18 months when the registry got too bloated and the whole machine started slowing.
 
Ccleaner, there's no reason to have to do constant reinstalls.  I've had systems go for three years without a format and any noticeable slowdown.
 
Plus the AV
 
This I will agree is a con, but isn't that bad IMO.  CPU usage will only spike on a scan which you can schedule.  In background Avast takes around 3mb of RAM.
 
constant reboots for every 2nd software upgrade etc.
 
Err, what's forcing you to reboot?  The only time I have to do a reboot is when there's critical security updates.  Otherwise I haven't been forced to reboot Windows in ages.  Many Linux distros force a reboot when something critical is fixed with the kernel too.
 
Choice is great isn't it.
 
Yep.  I still have to pop into Linux for a lot of security related tools, but otherwise I'm much more comfortable maintaining and using Windows.
 
Nice getting your views Shike.  Thanks
 
Same here

-responses in bold again.

 

[jbluzb86]

I have problems with ubuntu. I still feel the debian based ubuntu has some support not fit for my netbook. Though for average PC use ubuntu is good.
 
I switch right now to windows 7 because of some incompatibility with new hardware

 

[ninjikiran]

You need to more carefully choose your hardware with linux, as driver support is primarily 3rd party.  Every time I load up Linux I run into a road block of an issue, usually due to some kind of incompatibility or buggy driver.  On the other hand, Win7(since the days of XP) has been a breeze to set up, and generally forget.  Its more functional, and better supported.  Desktop feels snappier on higher end hardware(since Vista and the introduction of Aero).
 
As far as music is concerned, the USB audio driver doesn't seem to function properly under ubuntu, and the latest accelerated video driver makes screen text .2 pt font.  The video issue seems to have a fix somewhere out there but its a waste of effort unless Linux was my only choice.  I didn't spend more than an hour trying to get bit-perfect audio out of my Linux configuration.
 
If you put the work into making a solid Linux installation which is possible its pretty damn good but for most its not really worth the time.  Especially if you have the choice of using Windows 7 and/or have a higher end machine. 
 
Where does Linux excel for simplicity?  A very low end PC or Net Top/Box.  Snappier than XP/Win7 on low end machines and usually better driver support the older the system is.  It also excels if you want hyper customization and optimization, but that comes at the cost of time and sweat even if your savvy enough to understand the inner workings.  There was a time when that was fun to me, especially when there was once a real tangible benefit but the minor benefit doesn't outweigh simplicity and functionality.
 
In terms of whats under the hood, the biggest thing I can compliment Linux on is their file system.  While I don't know too much about EXT4, I do know EXT3 is more elegant than NTFS.  Testament to the fact that most people claim defragging under linux is not needed.

 

[bcg27]

A huge plus to linux is the command line. BASH is awesome and incredibly powerful. Although you can get it in windows using cygwin as well.

 

[fraseyboy]

Before Windows 7 I would have said Linux without thinking. Windows 7 evens it out a bit. I've had the same install for over a year and it doesn't feel any slower than the day I installed.