[Nar1117]

This thread gives me a chance to voice the opinions I have been harboring for quite some time, ever since joining head-fi a few years ago.

There are tons of communities in the world that will think they are better than any other given community in the same genre. Religion. Politics. Sports. Headphones. The list goes on.

People like to belong to something. They like to think they are normal and average (on average). This is how stadiums fill, religions spread, and debates get air time during campaigns. You have a few leaders that enjoy being at the top (and have the ability to do so - whether that be because of experience or natural leadership qualities, etc), and then everyone else who wants to experience the same confidence in a given area of expertise.

That's my blanket statement, and I think it applies here as well. We at Head-fi, being fans of high-fidelity audio equipment, like to think we know a lot about sound. Some of us may, and some of us may not. What we have to be careful about though, is grouping those that do not hold the same interests into a category of "have-nots".
It might be hard for us to understand, but people who truly believe that their headphones are the best they have ever heard might just be right. They probably are they best they've ever heard, according to their experience with music, their tastes in music, and/or their upbringing (whether it be in the hi-fi world or not).

All I'm saying here is that a flat frequency response from 20hz-20khz and a wide soundstage might not be the be-all, end-all to good-sounding headphones. Maybe it's less about bit rate and drivers, and more about emotion and attachment. That is, after all, what we are all after, right? Experiencing the music the "way it is meant to be heard," right? How can we say our "way" is better, or "more right" than the next person's? I'm not advocating the sale of $15 headphones, nor am I endorsing $1500 JH13s or $900 ES3xs.

Obviously, some of the population can be satisfied completely with less than $20 headphones, and who are we to say they're not hearing it right? Are we them?

It's all subjective.

I would hate to see the head-fi world regarded as a stuck-up cult that thinks it's better than all the other cults. We come here for enjoyment and the sharing of experiences via the tiny, tiny hairs behind our eardrum that fire tiny, tiny electrical impulses that we perceive as sound. It's truly a miracle that in a sense, vibrating molecules of air can, indirectly, make us feel really, really good.

To each his own.

 

[bba1973]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nar1117 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Obviously, some of the population can be satisfied completely with less than $20 headphones, and who are we to say they're not hearing it right? Are we them?

They certainly have every right to use whatever cheap earbuds they use, but they're missing out. I used to be in that crowd (128 MP3 and 128 AAC, $10 earbuds), and I never want to go back. Almost all of my friends are still in that crowd, and I share my interests with them in case they might want to join me. Music can certainly convey emotion through iBuds, but it has so much more emotion (IMO) with better gear and the emotion that comes with getting your rig set up just right. It's not just the music, but the journey of finding that perfect (or really good) setup.

Quote:

I would hate to see the head-fi world regarded as a stuck-up cult that thinks it's better than all the other cults. We come here for enjoyment and the sharing of experiences via the tiny, tiny hairs behind our eardrum that fire tiny, tiny electrical impulses that we perceive as sound. It's truly a miracle that in a sense, vibrating molecules of air can, indirectly, make us feel really, really good.

Certainly, but I don't see head-fi as stuck up, just obsessive. Outsiders may see it differently though.

Great post, btw.

 

[mvw2]

"Real" is the end all.

At least for me, that is the goal I seek.

I look for headphones as well as full sized home and car audio drivers that can produce the most life like sound with the least coloration, distortion, and any other limitations or quirks possible. A few products are quite exceptional. Some products fair very well. Some products are flawed in minor ways but otherwise do very well. Some products are heavily flawed and pretty much not enjoyable to listen to. A few are just completely horrid.

I want a headphone, earphone, car audio system, or home theater system capable of tricking me. I want something that does so well that I forget that I'm listening to speakers. If I closed my eyes and heard a voice talking to me, I want it to be so good I think it's a real person. Not much hardware out there is that good, and the challenge is largely trying to find that hardware.

 

[jjsoviet]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joelby /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can understand teenagers not knowing better. Here's a truely alarming review of the SK Pro straight from skullcandys website: I own a pair of Grado Statement Series 1000 headphones. Those retail at $1000. Those are apparently the best headphones one can own. When switching betwen the SK Pro's and the Grado's I do NOT...I repeat..o NOT distinguish an $850 difference in sound quality. The SK Pro's are the best deejay headphones one can procure. Not to mention, if you want to look good performing and Sennheiser and AKG have a similar sounding adversary...please...Skullcandy makes a deejay look slick ... with that close to Grado sound...no question here. I've been deejaying since the early nineties...just buy these. It'[s a no brainer. Thanks....Lucas A. Ortega aka Dr. Rendezvous Sorry Grado fans!

I died a lot inside.

We are not really *forcing* people to get out of their ruts and enjoy music through high-fidelity equipment. Rather, we are encouraging them to look what's beyond the usual, the normal. We can easily respect their preferences, no doubt about it.

But if they blatantly say it's "TEH BESSSTEST EVVARZZZ", tell everyone to come flocking to their preferred brand and quickly be judgmental of others, then things start to get hot around here. I personally cannot stand such sweeping generalizations and arrogance.

 

[shrisha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bba1973 /img/forum/go_quote.gif They certainly have every right to use whatever cheap earbuds they use, but they're missing out. I used to be in that crowd (128 MP3 and 128 AAC, $10 earbuds), and I never want to go back. Almost all of my friends are still in that crowd, and I share my interests with them in case they might want to join me. Music can certainly convey emotion through iBuds, but it has so much more emotion (IMO) with better gear and the emotion that comes with getting your rig set up just right. It's not just the music, but the journey of finding that perfect (or really good) setup. Certainly, but I don't see head-fi as stuck up, just obsessive. Outsiders may see it differently though. Great post, btw.

X2

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by atothex /img/forum/go_quote.gif Head-fi is a lot like this with sources.

Most people can't tell much difference between sources if they don't know what they are.

The "source first" meme is a leftover from Linn's early 1970s marketing campaign. About 40 years ago, a LP12 made a huge difference in your sound quality. And the LP12 is still an excellent - if fussy - turntable. But digital came along and turned the whole "source first" thing on its head. Level match digital sources and you'll be damned lucky to tell them apart.

As for the people enjoying Skullcandys... to each their own. If they wan to improve their listening experience, it isn't difficult to find information on better cans. If they seek it out, they'll understand. I don't make much effort to educate the uninitiated. If someone asks, I always offer a listen, though.

 

[bakhtiar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMarchingMule /img/forum/go_quote.gif I had a music major come into my room today and she didn't even recognize any of the nice audio gear I had lying around.

I think I knew the answer.

They are already hearing the sound in THE BEST form ever, yes, the LIVE music/sound with their own ears.

So, they do not need other gadgets to help them to hear.

I hope this 'theory' is correct.

Thank you.

 

[atothex]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif Most people can't tell much difference between sources if they don't know what they are.

People here, or just in general? I knew a guy who swore every headphone he's ever heard sounds exactly the same. So, yeah. I've heard major differences between digital sources, but maybe part of that is test music. I haven't exactly asked around, but it seems like most people who try to compare digital sources hear significant differences. Well, it helps if they're on different tiers of quality, of course.

 

[jjsoviet]

I really can't believe many people cannot discern the differences in sound quality in headphones....

 

[krmathis]

Most people do not know any better...

 

[Zax19]

Well here in the Czech Republic it's a matter of money. In every area of your life, there is some concensus, depending on your "social class", where is the line between reasonable and expensive.

And I can clearly see people spending a lot of money on food, alcohol, all kind of services (taxi, gym...) - that's the every day stuff. Then you have IT devices, which won't last you for a long time, e.g. mobile phones or laptops. Cheap laptop is twice the price of the high class headphones and won't serve you well after 2-3 years.

People spend 20 000 CZK on a laptop for 2-3 years, but can bluntly say that 1000 CZK us too much "just" for headphones. To clarify this, one evening in Prague (the capital) in some music club is like 600 CZK ( you won't get hammered I suppose), in normal city it would be like 300 CZK. Branded shoes 1500 CZK and more... Average salary would be like 13 000 CZK per month with taxes and such, I guess.

You can compare it better in the USA, but it drives me crazy that headphones here are cca 150% of the American price... only IE8s are comparable here, for cca 300 USD...
Overpricing might be the cause in terms of high class headphones, but not in terms of cheap phones around 1000 CZK. What's typical of the CR is that people think KPP are great phones, because you can see a lot of people with them and the haven't listened to anything better, so they have no idea about normal level of bass

.

 

[qusp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif Most people can't tell much difference between sources if they don't know what they are.

true, I do see a bit of confusion on that subject; even here

Quote:

snip/ But digital came along and turned the whole "source first" thing on its head. Level match digital sources and you'll be damned lucky to tell them apart/ship

wow!! are you serious?? even before I was into head-fi, back when I was just tinkering with my small home studio producing tunes, there was a fairly large and very perceptible increase in sound quality when I changed from an M-audio delta 66 interface to an RME hammerfall 9632. the difference was not small, no matter the volume, which when comparing semi-pro PCI based audio interfaces is not really an issue, as mostly they have about the same output running on bus power. the difference was there again a year later when I upgraded to the RME fireface 400; less difference since they run on similar dacs, I mostly bought that for greater amount of inputs, better ADC and mic pres. now comparing that same delta 66 and even the RME to my dual mono buffalo32, they are not even close. that is prety easy for me to do now since i'm actually feeding my B32 with AES from the RME, the output of both can easily be switched., in fact even the single ended RCA outputs of the buffalo crap on the RME balanced output. driving the same studio monitors. the volume has to be matched then of course

The fact 'source first' seems to be far from peoples minds even here sometimes is strange to me; as IMO it rings just as true now, now it is more difficult to find a truly horrible source these days, but comparatively some of them still sound like buzzed up crud

Quote:

As for the people enjoying Skullcandys... to each their own. If they wan to improve their listening experience, it isn't difficult to find information on better cans. If they seek it out, they'll understand. I don't make much effort to educate the uninitiated. If someone asks, I always offer a listen, though.

for sure, let them have their deluded ad uninformed view that they are the best, they may of course the best they have heard, which is a different thing altogether. if they are happy, thats great and I agree that no matter the method, someone enjoying their music is great in my book!! that is after all what this is about (at least for me it is) when music becomes a tool to analyze your gear rather than the other way around, that is a little confusing to me too, but thats cool as well.

the chap with the GS1000 liking them more is a bit odd though; although I couldnt see the GS1000 as being even an average headphone for DJ mixing. in fact they would be perfectly useless IMO, since they isolate like a flyscreen are sweaty as hell and lack any significant sub-bass (to these ears) I havent heard the SK PRO, so maybe they are a diamond waiting to be found?? what do you guys think??

 

[sphb]

Most of my friends can tell the difference very well just that they choose to live with their crappy phones because they simply don't want to put so much money into the business

Well, as long as they're happy with it it does not matter to me although it's a little annoying when people start praising stuff that are realllllly crappy.

Singapore used to have ZERO skullcandies. IT IS FLOODING THE PLACE LIKE ZOMBIES!!!!

 

[Drubbing]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMarchingMule /img/forum/go_quote.gif I had a music major come into my room today and she didn't even recognize any of the nice audio gear I had lying around.

Why would she? She's studying music, not the audio electronics market.

 

[carmatic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nar1117 /img/forum/go_quote.gif It might be hard for us to understand, but people who truly believe that their headphones are the best they have ever heard might just be right. They probably are they best they've ever heard

its not that hard to understand, really...its impossible for everyone to have tried the best of anything, some people simply happen to havent heard anything better than an inferior pair of headphones, hence whatever they used are the best they've ever heard

the real problem is when people use senses other than their hearing to judge headphones... for example that sk pro review sounded more like brand loyalty than a honest experience with a much more expensive pair of headphones, heck he even mentioned how they look...

but the article itself is kind of informative for IEM beginners

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drubbing /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why would she? She's studying music, not the audio electronics market.

but a good test would be to turn off the lights or blindfold her or fill the room with artificial fog or whatever... then play something, without telling her where the sound is coming from... like some other people in this thread said, if she has indeed been listening to real instruments, fooling her with an audio system would be quite an achievement...