Thinking of moving out of the US. Insight?

[xnothingpoetic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodduska /img/forum/go_quote.gif Since you are still a student have you thought about studying abroad? That might provide a bit more stability compared to leaving school and trying to make a living in a new area in poor economic times and you would still get to enjoy the new surroundings.

I thought about studying abroad-- finishing my degree somewhere else, but I think I am going to finish what I already started here.
After that I will look forward to new adventures.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaw007 /img/forum/go_quote.gif That attorney must not have filled his pockets before the recession.Or has been a high roller in the past.

Not necessarily. It's common to graduate with $150k-$200k of student loans today. Just to service that debt requires can require $2,000 a month or more.

Most firms will want 2,000-2,200 hours a year billed to keep your job. You can't bill for everything, usually it's about 1.5 hours on the job for every one hour billed.

So you end up putting in 12-15 hour days, are shackled for 10-20 years with a mortgage-sized student loan and business is drying up.

You can't get rid of student loans in bankruptcy and the DOE can, and will garnish bank accounts and your wages without court order.

I know crapping on attorneys is a lot of fun, but if you adjust wages for hours worked, legal secretaries often earn more than some associates do.

To the OP, I don't think you should go to a different country. The entire world is in for it this time and you will want to be nearby your support network. Don't go several thousand miles away from your friends and family. Either you will need them or they will need you. If you have to wander, come on over to the Left Coast. It's nice here; I love it. There are some jobs still, the weather is good and the culture is entirely different. And if you need to run home to help your parents, you can get there in a few days of driving.

Also, I disagree that the country is finished. The country is in trouble, but still a lot healthier than the rest of the world. The problem is real estate. If I can briefly touch on politics, the problem isn't going to go away any time soon and is going to produce weird results in the economy until it straightens out. There are two reasons for this:

1. If property values drop to the market level, then local and property taxes will fall through the floor. Local and state governments have been getting fat and jolly over property tax collections. They went on spending sprees, hired a bunch of people, built stuff, and so on. So if property taxes fall, that means closing schools, firing police officers, firemen, stopping trash collection, etc. And if that begins to happen, then the fed will probably have to come up with another bailout. This totally freaks out local, state and federal government. They're all juggling so no one gets the blame for this while alternately sticking their heads in the sand.

2. If property values drop to the market level, then people are going to get massive, behemoth writeoffs from losses. Again, these writedowns will just destroy tax revenues. You get to deduct losses, and holy hell, there will be losses. Again, the governments are freaked out over the loss of revenue. This, by the way, is the same reason we don't get tax code reform. No one knows what will come out the other side, and if anything freaks out the government, it's not knowing what tax receipts will be.

You're not going to find that in the mainstream media, but those are the real reasons the government is twisting around and appearing to do nothing effective. What would work would be reforming bankruptcy laws to allow mortgage principal writedowns, and much else, and just biting the bullet on tax losses. Also, the derivative market has to be regulated just like stock is. Once real estate prices calm down and people buy in, then the economy will settle down and start to build again. No boom, but it will be normal.

 

[Jaw007]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not necessarily. It's common to graduate with $150k-$200k of student loans today. Just to service that debt requires can require $2,000 a month or more. Most firms will want 2,000-2,200 hours a year billed to keep your job. You can't bill for everything, usually it's about 1.5 hours on the job for every one hour billed. So you end up putting in 12-15 hour days, are shackled for 10-20 years with a mortgage-sized student loan and business is drying up. You can't get rid of student loans in bankruptcy and the DOE can, and will garnish bank accounts and your wages without court order. I know crapping on attorneys is a lot of fun, but if you adjust wages for hours worked, legal secretaries often earn more than some associates do. To the OP, I don't think you should go to a different country. The entire world is in for it this time and you will want to be nearby your support network. Don't go several thousand miles away from your friends and family. Either you will need them or they will need you. If you have to wander, come on over to the Left Coast. It's nice here; I love it. There are some jobs still, the weather is good and the culture is entirely different. And if you need to run home to help your parents, you can get there in a few days of driving. Also, I disagree that the country is finished. The country is in trouble, but still a lot healthier than the rest of the world. The problem is real estate. If I can briefly touch on politics, the problem isn't going to go away any time soon and is going to produce weird results in the economy until it straightens out. There are two reasons for this: 1. If property values drop to the market level, then local and property taxes will fall through the floor. Local and state governments have been getting fat and jolly over property tax collections. They went on spending sprees, hired a bunch of people, built stuff, and so on. So if property taxes fall, that means closing schools, firing police officers, firemen, stopping trash collection, etc. And if that begins to happen, then the fed will probably have to come up with another bailout. This totally freaks out local, state and federal government. They're all juggling so no one gets the blame for this while alternately sticking their heads in the sand. 2. If property values drop to the market level, then people are going to get massive, behemoth writeoffs from losses. Again, these writedowns will just destroy tax revenues. You get to deduct losses, and holy hell, there will be losses. Again, the governments are freaked out over the loss of revenue. This, by the way, is the same reason we don't get tax code reform. No one knows what will come out the other side, and if anything freaks out the government, it's not knowing what tax receipts will be. You're not going to find that in the mainstream media, but those are the real reasons the government is twisting around and appearing to do nothing effective. What would work would be reforming bankruptcy laws to allow mortgage principal writedowns, and much else, and just biting the bullet on tax losses. Also, the derivative market has to be regulated just like stock is. Once real estate prices calm down and people buy in, then the economy will settle down and start to build again. No boom, but it will be normal.

Very well said.I was referring to those who did not borrow from the govt.
An had the funds to foot their own education.Also those who worked their way through college.

 

[chesebert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif What would work would be reforming bankruptcy laws to allow mortgage principal writedowns, and much else, and just biting the bullet on tax losses. Also, the derivative market has to be regulated just like stock is. Once real estate prices calm down and people buy in, then the economy will settle down and start to build again. No boom, but it will be normal.

the SPEs that have sold the CMOs are, generally, holder in due course/buyer in the ordinary business of a negotiable instrument; how the @#$ can we cram those people down if they are practically bankruptcy immune? (SPEs are not immune from being bankrupt, rather they are immune from being brought into a bankruptcy by the trustee in bankruptcy).

Dragging HID and buyer in the ordinary biz of negotiable instrument into bankruptcy is not good for lenders/businesses; this is not how business is/has been done in America!

Granted I do think it's probably necessary to make the principle home mortgage a nonrecourse loan, rather a recourse in the many States.

 

[subjekt32]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xnothingpoetic /img/forum/go_quote.gif I thought about studying abroad-- finishing my degree somewhere else, but I think I am going to finish what I already started here. After that I will look forward to new adventures.

I'm studying abroad for 3 weeks in Austria this summer. I CANNOT WAIT. I'm convinced that the best part of the trip will be the flights there and back. 20+ hours of music through AH-D5000's is going to be AMAZING!

 

[majid]

Here's someone who thinks like the OP does:
Jim Rogers: What He's Saying, Where He's Gone, Bryan Caplan | EconLog | Library of Economics and Liberty
I don't think any country will be immune to this economic crisis, but the US is piling on debt, i.e. taxing the unborn for short-term benefit to voters' and campaign contributors' lives today. I can easily imagine youngsters in the future opting out of paying for the Boomers' retirements by leaving the country altogether if it remains crushed by debt.

 

[Jaw007]

Quote:

Originally Posted by majid /img/forum/go_quote.gif Here's someone who thinks like the OP does: Jim Rogers: What He's Saying, Where He's Gone, Bryan Caplan | EconLog | Library of Economics and Liberty I don't think any country will be immune to this economic crisis, but the US is piling on debt, i.e. taxing the unborn for short-term benefit to voters' and campaign contributors' lives today. I can easily imagine youngsters in the future opting out of paying for the Boomers' retirements by leaving the country altogether if it remains crushed by debt.

I agree with you 100%.Also this bailout is going to bankrupt this country,if they don't stop now.The govt.could send some of that cash our way,so we could buy more gear.LOL

 

[Al4x]

i want to leave england, partly cause i dont enjoy myself where i am, and after this is all sorted out this country is going to be faced with big taxes,

i dont want to move to the US [cause like the UK is going to have loads of debt to pay off] but in order of prefereance

NZ
Oz
canada

i did molecular biology as my degree [pointless excercise, jobs are rubbish] but now want to completely give up on science, [just dont enjoy it anymore] my mistake

anyhow, yeah i want to excape the UK too

 

[Jaw007]

I want to escape my Xwife.hehehe

 

[Lazarus Short]

For what it is worth, this is how it looks from the lair of the Low Rez Fez:

The current civilization cycle peaked out some time ago, and will decline, probably for centuries, with a few upticks in the immediate future. If there are no major volcanic eruptions, ice age return, or (God forbid) a pole shift, things will not get too bad. If agriculture collapses, it's Katie-bar-the-door. Do any of you realize that most of the world's most important agricultural nations are in various states of drought? Thought not. For that matter, I think this coming summer is the third summer of drought for the Amazon. Supposedly, the jungle can take only three years of drought before it all starts to die.

There is no real place to run, unless you care to drop out and find a place where you can live off the land. They still exist. A good argument can be made that agricultural man (that's 99.999% of us) has just about ruined the planet. A return to a hunter-gatherer lifestyle might be the most feasible future.

Laz

Mods note: this is an existential post, not a political post.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Interesting, Laz. I've given a little thought to picking up some property in rural Oregon - prices are pretty good. I do like it up there, too. I don't know if things will get that bad, but I do think we're wrapping up Gilded Age II. The world will be a very different place at this time next year.

 

[chesebert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarus Short /img/forum/go_quote.gif For what it is worth, this is how it looks from the lair of the Low Rez Fez: The current civilization cycle peaked out some time ago, and will decline, probably for centuries, with a few upticks in the immediate future. If there are no major volcanic eruptions, ice age return, or (God forbid) a pole shift, things will not get too bad. If agriculture collapses, it's Katie-bar-the-door. Do any of you realize that most of the world's most important agricultural nations are in various states of drought? Thought not. For that matter, I think this coming summer is the third summer of drought for the Amazon. Supposedly, the jungle can take only three years of drought before it all starts to die. There is no real place to run, unless you care to drop out and find a place where you can live off the land. They still exist. A good argument can be made that agricultural man (that's 99.999% of us) has just about ruined the planet. A return to a hunter-gatherer lifestyle might be the most feasible future. Laz Mods note: this is an existential post, not a political post.

Time to find another M-class planet! I predict space law is the next hot legal practice area.

 

[amphead]

You could always move to Coober-Pedy Australia, and start mining for opals. Residents build their own comfortable underground homes, and therefore have no mortgage. If you hit a big vein of black opal you will be set for life.

Underground in Coober Pedy - Australia's Opal Capital

 

[nealric]

Quote:

Just change your career to a Doctor,nurse,or a attorney.You will then always have a job.

Attorney's are getting laid off en masse. BTW. This list only covers top firms (ones that pay high salaries to start):
Layoff Tracker | Law Shucks

Even in the boom times, attorneys who went to low ranked schools or graduated low in their class often didn't make much money.

 

[cash68]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xnothingpoetic /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't want to get into politics in here, but this economy is scaring me. I have a history class and we are/were studying the Roman Empire and it reminds me of the US, and now it seems the US "empire" is going to go downhill-- never to see its glory days again. "So why not move somewhere else?" I asked myself. I couldn't think of a reason not to other than family and friends, but they understand that we only have but one life in this mortal world, so I want to spend my time here being happy and with peace of mind. I don't have the energy to learn a new language, so I am going to have to limit myself to English speaking countries. Any suggestions? I was thinking of Sydney or Melbourne Australia or Vancouver Canada. I'm tired of the flatlands, and I need mother nature to be near by. These places seem beautiful, right? However Australia doesn't get cold enough, and Vancouver doesn't get warm enough for my tastes-- but I must make little sacrifices. I am also worried about my education not going to be of much value to these countries. (Marketing/Public Relations/Crisis Management). So that brings up the question of finishing school or dropping out in my Sophomore year and find some other career path? --I don't think my parents would like that decision though seeing how I'd be wasting much of their money. This is my only real limitation right now-- finding a way to support myself abroad by making use of my current education choice. Any helpful insights or experiences on this quest would be appreciated. Don't feel the need to answer all of my questions. Most of them I have to figure out for myself anyhow. General thoughts and feelings are welcome though. Please share.

I agree with your sentiments about the US economy, and I'm considering the same thing. However, and I say this with the utmost sincerity, your degree in marketing means nothing even here in the states. Marketing/business majors are a waste of space. Get a degree that actually matters, where you use your brain to create. Every "marketing" person I've met my entire life has been a complete and total moron. So no, I don't think it'll be valued in other countries, if it isn't here. We have WAY too many marketing people, and not enough engineers, manufacturing, design, testing, R&D, etc. Marketing is like Graphic Design. A completely over-saturated field.